Audeze LCD-4
Mar 28, 2016 at 3:03 PM Post #3,091 of 11,994
I just heard the Audeze LCD-4 last weekend at the SoCal CanJam. I listened to it with both the Audeze King and the Carvalli Liquid Crimson. While I can say that it sounded a bit more transparent in the mids and highs, overall I was not impressed that it was a major improvement on the LCD-3 with fazor. Certainly it was not an improvement worth twice the price of the LCD-3s. Maybe if I had it at home with my own amp (Bryston - BHA-1) and source equipment, I would think differently, but to me it sounded like an incremental improvement over the 3s. Does anyone else have this impression?
 
The one headphone that does seem to be a clear step up from the LCD3, at least on initial hearing, is the Abyss-1266 with the Woo Audio WA5-LE amplifier. However, that headphone is more than twice the price of the 3s, but it appears to be worth it. I was hoping that the LCD-4 would be more in line with the Abyss-1266 performance for that kind of price.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 3:23 PM Post #3,092 of 11,994
I don't think Tyll called them boring. He strongly avoids this.
 
However, I call them "dull". And by comparing them to my lcd3. It is clear for me, that someone who has never enjoyed good audio products, and buys them, will find them great. Also if you are an audiophile you may jump on their flagship product for a good reason. Because they are good. Not great but good.
 
But as an owner of the lcd3 I am disappointed.
 
I for myself find they have something missing. Over the whole frequency range they are surely consistent and give the sound a specific touch (which is what i call "engineered"). Imagine a sound designer designing a ford/audi to have a specific audio signature. And this signature changed from lcd3 to lcd4. There is a somewhat damped response in lower frequencies and in the higer ones (especially single female voice).
 
Maybe it has also some impact of the physical properties of the diaphragm which is a) completely new and b) known to cause some troubles. Also lcd3 had the issue that just obe side of the headphone just stopped working. rumours range from glue to humidity factors.
 
I also agree to previous comments, they need ample power. Although I believe they where driven correctly when I had the chance to try them out I'll give them a second chance next time with a Krell.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 4:55 PM Post #3,094 of 11,994
Why do people say this stuff without reading the reviews or watching the videos others are referencing (?)

He says it at 15:30 and at 17:10 of the YouTube review.

 
because some people listen more closely. "sound a litle boring" and "the errors - which are fewer of the lcd 4- add up being a little boring"
 
so he avoids naming them boring. But maybe some people do have a little bit more finetuning in their understanding and listen more closely.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 5:09 PM Post #3,096 of 11,994
because some people listen more closely. "sound a litle boring" and "the errors - which are fewer of the lcd 4- add up being a little boring"

so he avoids naming them boring. But maybe some people do have a little bit more finetuning in their understanding and listen more closely.
Listen more closely? That's one hell of a spin, brother. I'm glad the video is still up because to an outsider you'd be very convincing.

He called them boring. Twice.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 5:12 PM Post #3,097 of 11,994
 
  Please don't cultivate a new «Bit-Perfection» religion on Head-Fi! 
rolleyes.gif
It's very obvious and logical that manipulations on the sonic characteristics of a recording will result in a different digital signal. It doesn't matter if it's happening before burning it on a CD or afterwards. And in the case of an improved sonic balance the altered recording is better – despite not being «bit-perfect».
 
Note that the various DSPs (including equalizers) used in the recording studios will inevitably produce tons of «bit imperfections».

 

I promise not to cultivate any religions or “bit perfect” cults Jazz.
wink.gif
 I will thou continue to point out things that I think make a difference in SQ.

 

If bit-perfect is not one of those aspects you value or manipulations of the sonic characteristics of a recording is worth it compared to non-manipulations, please go head and use EQ. There are no free lunches thou and in my experience, with different software, only to switch on the EQ and before I have even changed anything it makes the sound less resolving, transparent and flat. With lesser gear it can be a necessity, especially with speakers in untreated rooms, but not with high end headphone gear if you really have taken the time to select so that they match each other sound vice IMO.  

 

It does matter if the change in FR takes place before burning it on a CD or afterwards. It’s the transmission of the data that’s bit perfect, not the sound. 

 
As I see it, you're a representant of magical thinking – with bit perfection as an incantation. Bit perfection, as you stated later, has its meaning during data transmission, because lost or crippled bits will never result in a sonic improvement. Equalizing a recording, on the other hand, is a purposeful signal manipulation with the goal of a sonic improvement. If you deny the benefit from that, you could just as well pretend that the frequency distortion caused by an equalizer be generally a bad thing. But you're certainly aware that the recordings you listen to (and enjoy) are full of this kind of sin. And first of all, the primary purpose of equalizing in a playback system is linearizing the over-all sonic balance, not a single component (at least from a puristic approach).
 
Just a reminder: «My equalizing attempts have always resulted in reduced resolution.» «In my understanding equalizing destroys bit-perfection.» Conclusion: «The lost bit perfection through equalizing inevitably reduces resolution.» ...is a poorly justified deduction.
 
Now my extensive EQ experiences have led me to the opposite conclusion: A (perceivedly) linearized over-all frequency response in most cases comes with clearly increased resolution. The reasoning is passably plausible: 1) The reduction or elimination of peaks and valleys reduces masking effects. 2) Since the linearization of the frequency response goes hand in hand with a linearized phase response, transient response will be improved.
 
If I take Tyll at his word, adequate equalizing could transform the LCD-4 to a headphone close to sonic perfection – or at least bring it to another level, annihilating the criticized weakness. Let's suppose the former be the case: It would be a shame not to take the opportunity – just for the sake of hardly understandable principles such as...
 
if i have to EQ a $4000 set of headphones, i will pass.

 
As one of those who always try to maximize the benefit from their audio purchases (be it by equalizing, modifying or recabling) I have a hard time understanding the limitations others impose on oneselves. Yes, it takes some dissatisfaction with the standard characteristics of your headphones to be motivated for the changes. But that's nothing uncommon on this forum and the reason for most to read and post here. My understanding is that the «normal» approach of giving the own dissatisfaction room is to purchase new, potentially better synergizing gear – so the minority approach is criticized for being misguided.
 
As others (bfreedma, Trogdor) have already pointed out: Headphones (from the cheapest to the most expensive) are far from being perfectly linear. See the Inner Fidelity graphs if you don't believe! There's massive equalizing potential. Although the curves are (unfortunately) not reliable as a 1:1 template, they perfectly show the deviations from a straight line. To those who close their forgiving eyes to the facts: It's your own fault.
 
My preferred dealer has an LCD-4 for audition since a while (and he likes it), so I will audition it on one of the next days. I don't have the intention to buy a pair, though – since I'm satisfied with my gear –, it's just pure curiosity.
 
  ...I am to a point in my life where it is no longer enjoyable fiddling with sliders every time a garbage recording comes my way. I do everything I can to ensure that my gear provides the type sound I enjoy and if I run across garbage recordings... they go in the bin and I move on.

 
That's a cheap excuse for not maximizing the sound of your headphones once and for all. Of course I understand your second point, which matches my own approach. It isn't related to the former, though.
 
That said, I'm in the fortunate position to need crossfeed for all my recordings. So while I'm at it, I can also improve those recordings that need it (and deserve it).
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 5:41 PM Post #3,098 of 11,994
i have both the 4's and the HE1000....i love the HE1000 and think they are perhaps the best cans i have heard..that said going back and forth between my 4's and the 1000's i found the 4's more lively and engaging and the 1000's more boring.....that being said i love the 1000's so the point to be made here is everybody has a sound they like and one HD may have it and others may not without making one a good or bad.....pricewise i accpet that perhaps the 4's have an issue but they are most definitely better than the 3's to my ears
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 6:20 PM Post #3,099 of 11,994
Regarding music genres, are the LCD-4s stronger in some, and less strong in others?
For example, I love the LCD-Xs for rock, pop, electronica, but not really for jazz and classical. I prefer the HD800s for that.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 6:32 PM Post #3,100 of 11,994
 
That's a cheap excuse for not maximizing the sound of your headphones once and for all. Of course I understand your second point, which matches my own approach. It isn't related to the former, though.
 
That said, I'm in the fortunate position to need crossfeed for all my recordings. So while I'm at it, I can also improve those recordings that need it (and deserve it).

 
 
thank you for being my new audio conscience. It is refreshing to see fanboyism is alive and well on every forum on the web. my income dictates value over anything, and @ $4000 The LCD-4 misses that mark by $2000.
 
I guess in the future I will praise a trusted reviewers choice to buck the trend (at his own peril) in private so as not to be introduced to another audio conscience 
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 6:38 PM Post #3,101 of 11,994
I don't understand your post. I'm not a fan of Audeze (never owned one, since my sonic preferences slightly differ) or the LTD-4, which I haven't heard yet.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 7:15 PM Post #3,102 of 11,994
thank you for being my new audio conscience. It is refreshing to see fanboyism is alive and well on every forum on the web. my income dictates value over anything, and @ $4000 The LCD-4 misses that mark by $2000.

I guess in the future I will praise a trusted reviewers choice to buck the trend (at his own peril) in private so as not to be introduced to another audio conscience 


Out of curiosity, have you actually heard the LCD-4?
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 7:36 PM Post #3,103 of 11,994
Out of curiosity, have you actually heard the LCD-4?

 
 
if I can get close to a set at AXPONA in Chicago next month I definitely will. Until then I am relying on as many opinions as possible... once again to finally allow me to end this and give the thread some breathing room, I was trying to thank Tyll for highlighting a short coming /  weakness (his perception) in a very expensive piece of gear. anytime a reviewer bucks a trend they risk blowing up a good thing and losing big time... that takes guts
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 7:40 PM Post #3,104 of 11,994
i have both the 4's and the HE1000....i love the HE1000 and think they are perhaps the best cans i have heard..that said going back and forth between my 4's and the 1000's i found the 4's more lively and engaging and the 1000's more boring.....that being said i love the 1000's so the point to be made here is everybody has a sound they like and one HD may have it and others may not without making one a good or bad.....pricewise i accpet that perhaps the 4's have an issue but they are most definitely better than the 3's to my ears


I can agree with all you just said except I would modify "most definitely better than the 3s" to " often, but not always, better than the 3s". Lets throw heavier and less efficient in there too.
 
Mar 28, 2016 at 8:23 PM Post #3,105 of 11,994
Agreed! My payment was cleared 14 days ago for the Abyss and I'm looking into the HD800S to listen podcasts and play computer games but I'm with you!

Let's do this!

Macadamia nut !
Up too late!
Troglodyte !
Turok !
Dan (the guy that puts headphones on his face) !

I don't know if I have all of your usernames right, but let's do this!



let's not
 

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