[MacedonianHero]

   
 
I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, nor an expert on the subject. My goal was to commend Tyll on having the guts to call out what he perceives as an obvious flaw in a $4000 piece of gear. If you watch the video review he made, you can clearly see that he is not comfortable pointing out the flaw.
 
Most reviewers of any product tend to shy away from negative feedback for fear of blowing up their gig. I for one have never or will ever get a chance to know if it is true, but give the guy credit for calling it as he sees it, because in the end its his rep on the line.
 
lastly.... I am to a point in my life where it is no longer enjoyable fiddling with sliders every time a garbage recording comes my way. I do everything I can to ensure that my gear provides the type sound I enjoy and if I run across garbage recordings... they go in the bin and I move on

 
Just remember that one person's "flaw" does not translate into another person's perspective. The 200 ohm LCD-4s (which I will be updating my review down the road, as my initial one was for the 100 ohm initial release) are voiced with the same "pushed back treble" just as the rest of the LCD lineup; to account for the close proximity of the drivers to one's ears. And to my ears, I am quite happy with this decision. I totally respect Tyll and loved working with him in the past. Seriously folks, a 30 minute telephone call with him and you'll understand two things right off the bat: he's genuinely a very nice guy and he knows a whole lot about audio. So in the end, I strongly suggest you read several reviews to get a variety of different perspectives AND most importantly: hear them for yourself! Yes, I am a big fan of the HD800S (I bought a pair back in December and love what they can do), but I would still classify them as "brighter" sounding headphones. So this perspective from Audeze is very much welcomed to my ears.
 
With regards to critiquing expensive gear, I am on the record several times for stating that the even more expensive Abyss headphones (which have problematic measurement issues by the way) had significant issues for me (sonically, looks-wise, and comfort wise) and while they do some things "right", the overall presentation was too incoherent for me. But the LCD-4s, I'm a big fan of and as Tyll noted, these are the best Audeze headphone to date. 

 

[Torq]

   
Just remember that one person's "flaw" does not translate into another person's perspective. The 200 ohm LCD-4s (which I will be updating my review down the road, as my initial one was for the 100 ohm initial release) are voiced with the same "pushed back treble" just as the rest of the LCD lineup; to account for the close proximity of the drivers to one's ears. And to my ears, I am quite happy with this decision. I totally respect Tyll and loved working with him in the past. Seriously folks, a 30 minute telephone call with him and you'll understand two things right off the bat: he's genuinely a very nice guy and he knows a whole lot about audio. So in the end, I strongly suggest you read several reviews to get a variety of different perspectives AND most importantly: hear them for yourself! Yes, I am a big fan of the HD800S (I bought a pair back in December and love what they can do), but I would still classify them as "brighter" sounding headphones. So this perspective from Audeze is very much welcomed to my ears.
 
With regards to critiquing expensive gear, I am on the record several times for stating that the even more expensive Abyss headphones (which have problematic measurement issues by the way) had significant issues for me (sonically, looks-wise, and comfort wise) and while they do some things "right", the overall presentation was too incoherent for me. But the LCD-4s, I'm a big fan of and as Tyll noted, these are the best Audeze headphone to date. 

 
Of interest to me in the context of Tyll's review was looking at his plots for the current LCD-2, the LCD-4 and the Abyss, and then considering my own experiences listening to those models.  And before I say anything else, I wholeheartedly agree that everyone is going to have difference perspectives on what is really a "flaw" vs. a preference in signature or voicing.
 
When I look at the measurements for the Abyss and the LCD-4 they seem to have a very similar mid-range dip, and beyond that the LCD-4 have somewhat better measurements.  And when I listened to the Abyss and LCD-4 side-by-side (admittedly with the LCD-4 not being burned in, and neither unit being driven by what I would consider ideal sources/amps*) it was clear the LCD-4 was smoother across the board and a bit more neutral.  Looking at the LCD-2 vs. 4 graphs, the LCD-2 seems to adhere closer to the description of the curve Tyll prefers ... and while not technically the equal of the 4 it seems to be voiced more in line with expectations.
 
But what I found when I compared those headphones myself, in person, was that the LCD-2 and the Abyss were, for me, far more enjoyable to listen to.  The LCD-4 seemed to be "doing more right" than either headphone and yet still was just not a satisfying listening experience for me compared to it's much cheaper sibling or the Abyss.  So ... technically better but not as enjoyable.
 
I'm lucky that "Head Fi" is my least expensive hobby, by far, so I'm not particularly constrained in what I buy - I don't need to internally justify one purchase over another as I can just buy them all if that's what I fancy.  But when it came down to it, while I was listening last week, and despite having the cash in hand and six months or so of built-up anticipation for the LCD-4 (including having had a sight-unseen/un-heard order in for weeks), I didn't want to keep listening to the LCD-4 and kept gravitating back to the Abyss or LCD-2.
 
--
 
*Such is my pent-up desire for what I hoped the LCD-4 that I will be re-auditioning the LCD-4 in my home system after my dealer has burned them in properly.  That'll be on a source I'm extremely familiar with and using much more suitable amplification (though the MHA100 should have been good enough for the like-for-like comparison I was doing).  I hope that'll yield a more positive impression, but if not then it'll be LCD-2/HD800S/Abyss combo that I stick with as those are addictively musical and enormously fun for me.

 

[potkettleblack]

People are taking Tyll saying that they are the best Audeze yet way too literally - it's pretty obvious that he's talking from a technical standpoint; something that many (myself included) would struggle to argue - they are a clear technical improvement over the rest of the line.

If he thought they were the best yet (on a whole) he wouldn't be calling them boring and lacklustre twice during the review; especially after spending the last 3 years oozing over the LCD 2 and 3.

If that statement was black and white it would render the previous Audezes paperweights in his eyes.

It will be interesting seeing people's experiences on here progress over the next 12 months. Comparing amps, dacs etc and seeing how they react to different synergies. I've heard them twice, they weren't really for me but I still found them fascinating, and have every intention of giving them a listen again.

On a side note: As he seems to have gone a bit postal and is calling companies out for their pricing (which I like) I'm surprised he didn't give the HE1000 more scrutiny as they are priced twice as much as the HD800S but still removed the LCD 3 and LCD X.

 

[DivergeUnify]

People are taking Tyll saying that they are the best Audeze yet way too literally - it's pretty obvious that he's talking from a technical standpoint; something that many (myself included) would struggle to argue - they are a clear technical improvement over the rest of the line.

If he thought they were the best yet (on a whole) he wouldn't be calling them boring and lacklustre twice during the review; especially after spending the last 3 years oozing over the LCD 2 and 3.

If that statement was black and white it would render the previous Audezes paperweights in his eyes.

It will be interesting seeing people's experiences on here progress over the next 12 months. Comparing amps, dacs etc and seeing how they react to different synergies. I've heard them twice, they weren't really for me but I still found them fascinating, and have every intention of giving them a listen again.

On a side note: As he seems to have gone a bit postal and is calling companies out for their pricing (which I like) I'm surprised he didn't give the HE1000 more scrutiny as they are priced twice as much as the HD800S but still removed the LCD 3 and LCD X.

He called them a musical improvement as well. I think his tastes have just shifted
He doesn't talk highly of the lcd3 anymore and he hasn't in a while. He just doesn't dig the Audeze treble colorations anymore. If he did at least one of the 2/3/X would be on the WoF

 

[Trance_Gott]

The best Audeze but not good enough for the WOF! Hey guys they are 4000$. How much cost the HD800S? And the last one knocks it out. A minimum better 3F for this price is not enough. The price raise must stop! Or quality must be a lot better to beat an HD800S or SR009 in all areas!
Although my Abyss is a very special headphone and I understand why Tyll take it not to the WOF. This is the place for neutral and natural sounding World Class Headphones.
If we look at the prices the HD800S is clear a winner. My SR009 costs 4x and is only in some areas better but not all!
The way Tyll takes to remind headphone manufactures that they have a long way to take to demand such prices from us! I don't see a LCD4, HE1000 or SR009 defeating the HD800S which costs a lot lower.
I will never pay 4k or 5k for a headphone when it is not clearly better then a 2K headphone! My trip in ultra expensive headphones for now is stopped!

 

[potkettleblack]

Whic

He called them a musical improvement as well. I think his tastes have just shifted
He doesn't talk highly of the lcd3 anymore and he hasn't in a while. He just doesn't dig the Audeze treble colorations anymore. If he did at least one of the 2/3/X would be on the WoF

He said the previous models essentially didn't expose this flaw anywhere near as much as the LCD 4 and now they've revealed themselves as being boring.

 

[potkettleblack]

The best Audeze but not good enough for the WOF! Hey guys they are 4000$. How much cost the HD800S? And the last one knocks it out. A minimum better 3F for this price is not enough. The price raise must stop! Or quality must be a lot better to beat an HD800S or SR009 in all areas!
Although my Abyss is a very special headphone and I understand why Tyll take it not to the WOF. This is the place for neutral and natural sounding World Class Headphones.
If we look at the prices the HD800S is clear a winner. My SR009 costs 4x and is only in some areas better but not all!
The way Tyll takes to remind headphone manufactures that they have a long way to take to demand such prices from us! I don't see a LCD4, HE1000 or SR009 defeating the HD800S which costs a lot lower.
I will never pay 4k or 5k for a headphone when it is not clearly better then a 2K headphone! My trip in ultra expensive headphones for now is stopped!

Agreed! My payment was cleared 14 days ago for the Abyss and I'm looking into the HD800S to listen podcasts and play computer games but I'm with you!

Let's do this!

Macadamia nut !
Up too late!
Troglodyte !
Turok !
Dan (the guy that puts headphones on his face) !

I don't know if I have all of your usernames right, but let's do this!

 

[MacedonianHero]

Whic
He said the previous models essentially didn't expose this flaw anywhere near as much as the LCD 4 and now they've revealed themselves as being boring.

 
Which is one thing that I don't understand in the review. They are indeed more revealing and still voiced very similarly to the LCD lineup. I can't make the leap from more revealing and voiced similar to boring? Not on my rig and to my ears at least. Could be tastes have changed over time...mine have from time to time. But I still very much enjoy the LCD sound signature. They do need power to really sound their best. The original LCD-4s on which my review was based sounded quite good when run balanced from my AK240SS, the 200 ohm LCD-4s really need a desktop setup to fully hit their stride and sound just great from my GS-X Mk2. 

 

[Trogdor]

People are taking Tyll saying that they are the best Audeze yet way too literally - it's pretty obvious that he's talking from a technical standpoint; something that many (myself included) would struggle to argue - they are a clear technical improvement over the rest of the line.

If he thought they were the best yet (on a whole) he wouldn't be calling them boring and lacklustre twice during the review; especially after spending the last 3 years oozing over the LCD 2 and 3.

I read the review twice and I still don't see where Tyll called them "boring" or "lackluster." Was that in the video? (I admit I haven't watched it).

 

[Trogdor]

Whic
He said the previous models essentially didn't expose this flaw anywhere near as much as the LCD 4 and now they've revealed themselves as being boring.

To some.

 

[potkettleblack]

Yeah in the video.

 

[potkettleblack]

To some.

That goes without saying mate. Saying 'he' should be enough. They are still getting a lot of love.

 

[Pale Rider]

The best Audeze but not good enough for the WOF! Hey guys they are 4000$. How much cost the HD800S? And the last one knocks it out. A minimum better 3F for this price is not enough. The price raise must stop! Or quality must be a lot better to beat an HD800S or SR009 in all areas!
Although my Abyss is a very special headphone and I understand why Tyll take it not to the WOF. This is the place for neutral and natural sounding World Class Headphones.
If we look at the prices the HD800S is clear a winner. My SR009 costs 4x and is only in some areas better but not all!
The way Tyll takes to remind headphone manufactures that they have a long way to take to demand such prices from us! I don't see a LCD4, HE1000 or SR009 defeating the HD800S which costs a lot lower.
I will never pay 4k or 5k for a headphone when it is not clearly better then a 2K headphone! My trip in ultra expensive headphones for now is stopped!

I tend to agree. I like my LCD-4 headphones, sort of in the same way—but not for the same reasons—I like my HD800. There are just times when I want "that sound." But if forced to choose just one to live with, it would be neither. I would have to think long and hard between the 007 and 009. But I don't enjoy the LCD-4 any less for that.

 

[kyle1010]

Can we still email Audeze to get the carbon fiber headbands before they officially go on sale? I really want one for my LCD-Xs. If so, what email address?

 

[Trance_Gott]

I tend to agree. I like my LCD-4 headphones, sort of in the same way—but not for the same reasons—I like my HD800. There are just times when I want "that sound." But if forced to choose just one to live with, it would be neither. I would have to think long and hard between the 007 and 009. But I don't enjoy the LCD-4 any less for that.

I also love my Abyss and cannot live without it. But the price 6k is 4k too high from a realistic standpoint. SR009 2800€ in Japan is now a realistic price but 5000€ in germany never worth the money!
The Ethers for 1,5k are okay but I think with the next E Stat Blue Ether Dan will go >2K because he can.