[dan.gheorghe]

  It depends. If you have a pretty good amp then yes, a DAC upgrade will bring you better benefits than upgrading the amp. If you have a ****ty amp then I don't think even a DaVinci will work wonders.

 
Of course....I am not talking about fiio combined with davinci here ).

 

[Solude]

It's harder to drive a headphone than an amp's input and I'll leave it that.

 

[citraian]

  It's harder to drive a headphone than an amp's input and I'll leave it that.

 
Yeah, but even if you drive the headphone perfectly the end sound will depend on what you feed the amp with. Crap in > Crap out

 

[Solude]

True just saying the money to quality ramp is a lot faster in amps than DACs.  The difference between a $300 and $3000 amp is something even the deaf can here.  DACs on the other hand are a game of inches.  The $3000 DAC isn't going to be obvious to "regular" folks.

 

[Hi Rez]

  I'm starting to think that DACs may be more important than amps for all but the most budget setups.

Maybe not more important, but at least as important as the amp.
 
Compared ASR's  Plinius CD-101 > GS-X MK2 to my QB-9 > Pico Power.  With the LCD-3, we both preferred the QB-9 > Pico Power.  
 
That said, neither combo came remotely close  to the QB-9 > GS-X MK2.

 

[preproman]

  True just saying the money to quality ramp is a lot faster in amps than DACs.  The difference between a $300 and $3000 amp is something even the deaf can here.  DACs on the other hand are a game of inches.  The $3000 DAC isn't going to be obvious to "regular" folks.

 
These are my thoughts exactly...  

 

[negura]

I disagree. From a low-end DAC to Burson Conductor to the PWD2 the difference has always been jaw dropping. The only catch is to avoid being bottlenecked severely by the amplifier. I would consider my wife in the "regular" folks category and she was just as impressed. With both speakers and headphones.
 
The SQ difference brought by the DAC has always been just as impressive as with the amps. It's a catch-22 which one to upgrade first.

 

[Hi Rez]

  True just saying the money to quality ramp is a lot faster in amps than DACs.  The difference between a $300 and $3000 amp is something even the deaf can here.  DACs on the other hand are a game of inches.  The $3000 DAC isn't going to be obvious to "regular" folks.

 
Don't know how many "regular" folks would consider shelling out 3k for an amp either....

 

[preproman]

  I disagree. From a low-end DAC to Burson Conductor to the PWD2 the difference has always been jaw dropping. The only catch is to avoid being bottlenecked severely by the amplifier.
 
The SQ difference brought by the DAC has always been just as impressive as with the amps. It's a catch-22 which one to upgrade first.

 
I disagree.  From the NAD M51 to the Master 7 to the PWD2 even the Buffalo III and I'm pretty sure other DACs in the +/- 2K range differences are subtle at best.  
 
Differences between A Beta 22, a GS-X mk2, a BHA-1, a MJ and the HA - 160D, and I'm sure a Soloist are more apparent.  All in the same price range - give or take a few $$ here and there.
 
This is from my experience 

 

[negura]

   
I disagree.  From the NAD M51 to the Master 7 to the PWD2 even the Buffalo III and I'm pretty sure other DACs in the +/- 2K range differences are subtle at best.  
 
Differences between A Beta 22, a GS-X mk2, a BHA-1, a MJ and the HA - 160D, and I'm sure a Soloist are more apparent.  All in the same price range - give or take a few $$ here and there.
 
This is from my experience 

 
Two problems I see with these statements:
- in the first part the first 3 are not exactly budget DACs any of them are they.
- How are the MJ, Soloist in the same price range with the GS-X MK2? I'd love to share this experience if you have any tips.
 
Finally the price is not the only indicator of quality. The reverse of it is, also based on experience, that you can get an exceptional boost of SQ with money well spent into DACs. Truth to be said some DACs are bottlenecked by their USB inputs. Examples include the Burson Conductor, NAD M51 and to some extent PWD2.

 

[preproman]

Did you see where I said give or take a few $$ here and there?

 
Where did it say they had to be budget DACS?  
 
I gave you DACs in the same price range with subtle difference.   I also gave you amps around the same price range give or take a few $$ that the differences are more apparent. 
 
Tip = purchase a few and try them for your self..  This is why I went up in the DAC price range a few K to see if there is a much more apparent difference there.
 
My point being - and IMO you would be able to tell the difference between amps before you could DACs in the same price range - again give or take a few $$

 

[Saraguie]

  **I disagree. From a low-end DAC to Burson Conductor to the PWD2 the difference has always been jaw dropping. The only catch is to avoid being bottlenecked severely by the amplifier. I would consider my wife in the "regular" folks category and she was just as impressed. With both speakers and headphones.
 
The SQ difference brought by the DAC has always been just as impressive as with the amps. It's a catch-22 which one to upgrade first.

** With my 3s I went from iPod > Fostex HP-P1 (as DAC) > RSA Hornet  to   laptop > PWD2 > RSA Hornet and was completely blown away with how much better the DAC made the system sound. 10 times better. Way back in this thread I took pictures, posted, and commented.
 
When I got the Mojo and replaced the little Hornet the difference was noticeable certainly, but not as big a difference as upgrading DACS. Maybe 3 times better.

 

[negura]

  Did you see where I said give or take a few $$ here and there?

 
Where did it say they had to be budget DACS?  
 
I gave you DACs in the same price range with subtle difference.   I also gave you amps around the same price range give or take a few $$ that the differences are more apparent. 
 
Tip = purchase a few and try them for your self..  This is why I went up the the DAC price range a few K to see if there is a much more apparent difference there.

 
My comment with regards to budget DACs was to Solude's initial reply. Also I don't think it's correct to use "same price range" when MJ/Soloist vs GS-X MK2 is a roughly 300% range at these amounts. What do you consider same price range? 1-5k? I think that's immensely broad if so. The money on DACs is extremely well spent when moving from low-end to high-end. Good selection is key like with anything. Not all that costs is worthwhile etc. I would feel cheated if a certain 2000 DAC sounds substantially better than another DAC for the same money. Or the reverse... don't buy the crap one. Same with amplifiers.
 
The only reason I replied is that I don't agree with the importance of DACs being downplayed as one moves accross budget ranges. Exceptions obviously apply. This is my opinion of course and how I have heard it based on personal experience up to the PWD2. I can't comment past that. Yet.

 

[BournePerfect]

I can readily hear differences in every dac I've ever owned-for better or worse. *shrugs*
Bottom line is, with the flagships-the entire rig needs to be up to snuff...weakest link and all...
 
-Daniel

 

[negura]

  I can readily hear differences in every dac I've ever owned-for better or worse. *shrugs*
Bottom line is, with the flagships-the entire rig needs to be up to snuff...weakest link and all...
 
-Daniel

Agreed. And obviously that includes the headphones. This being the LCD-3 thread they are transparent enough and scale a lot. From where I am at the moment I feel there are headphones I own/ed that scale better past a certain point and more apparent with better gear. That includes the HD800s and SR007s MKI. And no I still don't prefer the HD800s to the LCD-3s and that's why they got sold. SR007s - that's a different story. I am also confident the SR007 MKIs will see a resurgence as better gear is available nowadays, and improvements in sources (and amplifiers) plays a big role to that.