[Kees]

So you put square wheels under your Porche and then tell us Porche sucks...... and then you think your opinion could be of interest to anybody?

 

[Alghazanth]

Btw, just found this in that headphone picking guide Head-Fi helped out with:
 
Wallet-Busting Picks: All of my favorite cost-no-object full size headphones are open-back, and all benefit tremendously from dedicated headphone amplifiers. Sennheiser's HD 800 (street price around $1500.00) is probably one of the most revealing headphones ever made. To wring the best performance out of it, the HD 800 absolutely needs to be matched well with a good headphone amplifier. It is a ruthlessly revealing headphone. Match it up poorly, and it can be overly bright. Drive it well, and the HD 800 will reward you with what will probably be the best sound quality you've ever heard. Yes, the HD 800 is picky, but, in my opinion, it's worth the effort. Also, hands down, the HD 800 is the most comfortable headphone I've ever worn.
Immensely popular in the Head-Fi community the last couple of years has been the reemergence of planar magnetic driver technology. Two companies have pushed the envelope in planar magnetic driver design, HiFiMAN and Audeze. The new HiFiMAN HE-500 ($899.00) and the Audeze LCD-2 ($945.00) are designed to be efficient enough to be driven by portable devices like iPods and smart phones with good results, but both can scale to HD 800-class performance with top-notch headphone amplifiers. These top-tier planar magnetic driver assemblies are very heavy, though, and both the HE-500 and LCD-2 can feel heavy on the head, and aren't nearly as comfortable as the HD 800. Less picky about amplification than the HD 800, it can be easier to build a world-class headphone rig around these top-tier planar magnetic headphones than around Sennheiser's flagship HD 800.

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

So you put square wheels under your Porche and then tell us Porche sucks...... and then you think your opinion could be of interest to anybody?

Aren't you a genius. Might want to look back in this thread, the main LCD-2 thread, and the D7000 thread, where a few people asked me to post impressions knowing what I was running them through. I promise next time I post impressions about your favorite headphone, I'll make sure to not only bold and underline, but use size 72 font on the part that says to "take this review as it is, the LCD-2 through an amp not good enough for it." Then hopefully you won't glance over it while you're fuming at the sheer thought that someone doesn't appreciate a pair of headphones when run through a meager amplifier, but understands that others with proper amplification may.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Aren't you a genius. Might want to look back in this thread, the main LCD-2 thread, and the D7000 thread, where a few people asked me to post impressions knowing what I was running them through. I promise next time I post impressions about your favorite headphone, I'll make sure to not only bold and underline, but use size 72 font on the part that says to "take this review as it is, the LCD-2 through an amp not good enough for it." Then hopefully you won't glance over it while you're fuming at the sheer thought that someone doesn't appreciate a pair of headphones when run through a meager amplifier, but understands that others with proper amplification may.

I know they asked, but YOU give an opinion on the LDC2 based on driving it on square wheels, I think thats pretty stupid don't you think?
 

 

[Alghazanth]

Quote:

I know they asked, but YOU give an opinion on the LDC2 based on driving it on square wheels, I think thats pretty stupid don't you think?
 

LCD-2*
 
An opinion is an opinion. I have plenty of headphones that sound amazing with my E9. This one does not. I also own a Schiit Lyr and Headroom Desktop Amp, but they're in another home. Some people asked for impressions, I gave them it. My not liking the LCD-2 does not affect you, relax.
 

 

[shamrock134]

Could a Graham Slee Solo SRGII w/PSU1 give the LCD-2 enough juice?
 
What spec's should I be looking at to get an idea?
 
Specs state:
 
Power output
(rms, both channels fully driven) 32 Ohms: 27mW/channel; 600 Ohms: 23mW/channel

 

[Proglover]

Quote:

The thing about all these planar/orthos is this - they really can't sound very good unless driven properly. With many other headphones, you can get a good portion of what the headphone will deliver with almost any amp. Even the T1 I agree sounds pretty good with almost any amp (although it scales up with the good stuff). But if you underpower a planar, it flat out doesn't sound good. Period. And I have heard some expensive amps that were not up to the task, since they lacked enough power.

It is entirely possible that even with a terrific amp, you won't like the LCD-2. There are quite a few people that don't. However, unless you have an amp that will drive them properly, you won't really know whether you would have liked them or not.

 
Hmm, this discussion makes me wonder, what is needed to make it worthwile to buy T1 and/or LCD-2.
Yes, we know D7000's are very easy to drive, we also know T1 is not extremely demanding but will show flaws in the chain, plus that Hifiman's like HE-6 need beasts to power them.
 
But where does the LCD-2 stand in between this exactly.
Or in my specific case, Audio GD NFB-3 with C-2.1 (offcourse FLAC source, decent cables etc.), I guess it's worthwhile to buy T1's, but can my rig also power LCD-2 decently?
 
Maybe there are better threads to ask, but since it's discussed here, amping and LCD-2....
 
 

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

 
Hmm, this discussion makes me wonder, what is needed to make it worthwile to buy T1 and/or LCD-2.
Yes, we know D7000's are very easy to drive, we also know T1 is not extremely demanding but will show flaws in the chain, plus that Hifiman's like HE-6 need beasts to power them.
 
But where does the LCD-2 stand in between this exactly.
Or in my specific case, Audio GD NFB-3 with C-2.1 (offcourse FLAC source, decent cables etc.), I guess it's worthwhile to buy T1's, but can my rig also power LCD-2 decently?
 
Maybe there are better threads to ask, but since it's discussed here, amping and LCD-2....
 
 

I will try to answer this for you. I have been through all the headphones and started my project a year ago when I owned both the T1 and D7000 then bought them all. I owned the LCD2,HD800,HE6 and W1000X. I am now back to owning the T1 and the D7000. Reasons The D7000 while it does not isolate that well is a cl0sed phone and the T1 is open. The LCD2 is an open phone and D7000 closed. I need a closed phone and my family tells me they do not hear any music when I use them. The LCD2 and D7000 both have similar signatures. The LCD2 is more transparent and has more  defined bass but the D7000 has a better treble and is slightly less transparent. For me the comfort levels of the D700 is so much better than the LCD2 and fits my needs better. If you want open the LCD2 is for you and closed go Denon. I own two because the T1 and D7000 compliment each other so well, I enjoy the transparency and sound stage of the T1 and for my tube amps there is no better match than the T1. But make no mistake they are all good and most will be about preferences and to satisfy your needs. The HE6 is a revelation also but you need powerful receiver amps tho get the best out of them and I listen to speakers much of my time and I do prefer tubes and the HE6 responds better to powerful solid state. Hope this helps you to sort out the road ahead. try as many as you can and you will know what you like best.

 

[Proglover]

^ many thanks for your effort Frank
 
I was wondering mostly, if my DAC/Amp combo can power LCD-2 decently.
I'm getting T1's for sure. (indeed probably a very nice open companion to D7000's and also Ed.8's)
 
Maybe there will come a time I'll buy a Lyr to power Hifimans, but that's not now, so I'm curious as to if it's worthwhile at this point to get LCD-2's.

 

[brasewel]

Quote:

 
I'll decide what I do with my money and audio gear, thanks. I never said either headphone is bad. I said the LCD-2 sound horrible through an E9 because it does. I'm sure it sounds phenomenal through your multi-thousand dollar amps, that's why it's #1 ranked here, but I'm only providing my experience because a few users asked me too. Sorry if that offends you.
 
As for the T1, I've given nothing but praise for it. The soundstage, transparency, detail, natural sound, and neutrality are incredible. It's the  NEUTRALITY that I personally do not enjoy. I like a forward, upfront, energetic, involving, joyful, headbanging kind of sound that comes from colored cans. And I'm not the only one, refer to the two T1 reviews here that found them joyless with much better amps than mine. Note that I also did not agree with them at first, it's only after I went back to my Denons for a bit did I discover my preference.
 
 

The LCD-s don't require $1000s spent on an amp and dac to make them sound great. The Schiit Lyr with the right tubes and an Audio-GD NFB-2 will make them sound very good. I'm not trying to flame you or anything but it's ignorant comments like this that cause people to attack you. Now I understand that you're looking at a budget setup that would make your headphones sound good but even with the D7k and T1 you're wasting a lot of their potential. If you haven't heard them amped properly you wouldn't know how good or bad they currently sound right? You just outright dismissed them, claiming that even the D2k has better bass which I know is completely untrue having owned them.
 

 

[Skylab]

The only amp I personally have heard for under $1,000 that works well with the D7000, T1, and LCD-2 is the WooAudio WA6 (given that the Meier Audio Concerto is OOP). Those three headphones have VETY different amping requirements, because they are very different electrically. D7000 is high sensitivity, low impedance. So OTL tube amps are not good choices, but almost any decent SS amp will do. T1 are high sensitivity, high impedance. Almost any OTL tube amp will work well, but many cheap SS amps will struggle. Then there is the LCD-2' low sensitivity (well, maybe medium), and low impedance. Most OTL tube amps won't do, and most cheap SS amps won't either. You need a good powerful SS, hybrid, or transformer-coupled tube amp to do the LCD-2 justice. Doesn't have to be crazy expensive - most people find the Schiit Lyr to do a good job, and I am listening to the LCD-2 right now out of a vintage 70's Sansui 9090 receiver I bought for $300, and it sounds fantastic.

Point is: this stuff isn't just buy any only headphone and amp and expect ideal results. When you are spending this kind of dough for headphones, it only makes sense to do the homework to make the whole SYSTEM work sell together.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

^ many thanks for your effort Frank
 
I was wondering mostly, if my DAC/Amp combo can power LCD-2 decently.
I'm getting T1's for sure. (indeed probably a very nice open companion to D7000's and also Ed.8's)
 
Maybe there will come a time I'll buy a Lyr to power Hifimans, but that's not now, so I'm curious as to if it's worthwhile at this point to get LCD-2's.

Rob gave you some good advice on the amps. You can buy a Woo ^ or ^SE which has more balls than the six depending on budget that will work on all three headphones or seek out a used Concerto here which does well with those three if you like solid state more. I heard the 6 and 6 SE on the D7000,T1 and the LCD2 and its a great match. If  you can swing an 6SE I have a strong feelinf someone on this board is going to list one shortly send me a pM and I will give you his information. I am hearing a good price with lots of tubes.
 

 

[Proglover]

there is a gain switch on Audio GD's C-2 and after reading quiet a lot I really got the impression that Jan's Concerto isn't a lot better then C-2.1, but very comparible. Offcourse Jan's amp has some specific options one could choose for. Maybe I'm mistaken though, don't know.
 
Anyway, I sent Rob a pm, so I don't have to steal this threat anymore, sorry for that guys.

 

[bbophead]

@ Skylab
 
"You need a good powerful SS, hybrid, or transformer-coupled tube amp to do the LCD-2 justice. Doesn't have to be crazy expensive - most people find the Schiit Lyr to do a good job, and I am listening to the LCD-2 right now out of a vintage 70's Sansui 9090 receiver I bought for $300, and it sounds fantastic."
 
Two questions:
 
I tried a Peachtree Audio Nova off the speaker taps.  The LCD-2 didn't work significantly better than off any headphone jack (Yarland, Vincent, Peachtree) including a 22 year old JVC CDP.  It would seem that the Peachtree, especially in that mode, would have enough power so, what's up with that?  BTW, it would be nice if there was a list of amps that bring the LCD-2 to its full potential.  Sure might save us all some money.  I find it intriguing that Audez'e makes a point of not recommending amps for their product. 
 
Running out of the Sansui, are you using the speaker taps or the headphone jack?  If the headphone jack, does it derive its power from the power amp section or does the headphone jack have its own dedicated amp?  Just curious.
 
O.K., that's more than two questions.  

  I appreciate your contributions to this forum.  Thank you very much.
 
 

 

[Skylab]

The Peachtree, from it's speaker outs, should have all the power you could ever possibly want or need for the LCD-2.  When you say it didn't work better, were you not happy with the LCD-2 from those other headphone amps headphone outs?  Sorry if you already said, but too many posts for me to remember.
 
The Sansui, like almost all vintage receivers, derives the headphone jack straight off the power amp, with just a padding resistor.  I use the LCD-2 from the headphone out, as even then, I need to use the Sansui's "20dB Muting" to get much play on the volume control - the Sansui's headphone jack provides more than 15 wpc into the LCD-2's impedance - a crazy amount of power.