[sling5s]

   
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm starting to wonder what "warm" really means, or perhaps what "neutral" really means. To me, slightly "warm" phones sound like the real thing to me much more than a "neutral" phone does. In the real world, treble information gets absorbed much faster than lower frequencies so, to my ears, the real world actually sounds slightly "warm"

To me there's bright side of neutral like HD800 and AKG 701 and warm side of neutral like LCD-3F.  There's ver few headphones that are dead center neutral. 
 
I personally like the warm side of neutral.
Neutral that has a ever so slight boost in the mid and upper bass complemented by a every so slight boost in the mid and upper mids and slightly rolled off lower and upper treble.  
That's my dream phone. 

 

[diamondears]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm starting to wonder what "warm" really means, or perhaps what "neutral" really means. To me, slightly "warm" phones sound like the real thing to me much more than a "neutral" phone does. In the real world, treble information gets absorbed much faster than lower frequencies so, to my ears, the real world actually sounds slightly "warm"

Neutral is confusing, because neutral should always be relative to the recording (intended recording). If recording is warm, and sound comes out as neutral, the equipment is making the music brighter or less warm. So the gear is actually bright or polite.

The more useful term IMO is TRANSPARENT=no tweaks on the recording.

 

[Stillhart]

I know I'm late to the game here, but what's the general consensus on the fazor?  Tyll says more "reference" and less "buttery".  FR graphs show bass rolloff.  What do the untrained (relatively speaking) ears on Head-fi say?

 

[madwolfa]

  I know I'm late to the game here, but what's the general consensus on the fazor?  Tyll says more "reference" and less "buttery".  FR graphs show bass rolloff.  What do the untrained (relatively speaking) ears on Head-fi say?

 
I haven't heard the original version, but LCD-2F I have doesn't sound like people describe the non-fazored version, i.e. "warm", "bass heavy" and somewhat "slow" and "wooly". It's very natural and neutral sounding to me, with a well-bodied low-end, lush mids and hint of sweetness in highs. Sounds like a refined, "bigger" HD650 to me.
 
I wouldn't care about bass rolloff on FR graphs as it's in the region which is absolutely not audible, but could help remove some unwanted resonances (so might be intentional).

 

[Stillhart]

   
I haven't heard the original version, but LCD-2F I have doesn't sound like people describe the non-fazored version, i.e. "warm", "bass heavy" and somewhat "slow" and "wooly". It's very natural and neutral sounding to me, with a well-bodied low-end, lush mids and hint of sweetness in highs. Sounds like a refined, "bigger" HD650 to me.
 
I wouldn't care about bass rolloff on FR graphs as it's in the region which is absolutely not audible, but could help remove some unwanted resonances (so might be intentional).

Thanks, that's helpful.  I was worried that maybe the fazor changes moved it too far from the HD650 sound.  It's probably just one of those subtle high-end things that's not super noticeable if you're not A/B'ing them.
 
Also, <3 Opeth.  :-D

 

[madwolfa]

  Thanks, that's helpful.  I was worried that maybe the fazor changes moved it too far from the HD650 sound.  It's probably just one of those subtle high-end things that's not super noticeable if you're not A/B'ing them.
 
Also, <3 Opeth.  :-D

 
No, not too far at all. In fact I had them both for some time and then decided to sell HD650, as they were redundant.
I have to say "Pale Communion" sounds fantastic on my LCD-2F. And all that kind of music in general. 

 

 

[Lohb]

For me anyway LCD 2.1's immediately just sounded organic...and the skin hits on drums is just WOW.
 
I think these guys have nailed the tone across the board...my exp. with HFM cans was not the same, well the 400's are known to be dark AND bright at the same time.

 

[jaywillin]

Neutral is confusing, because neutral should always be relative to the recording (intended recording). If recording is warm, and sound comes out as neutral, the equipment is making the music brighter or less warm. So the gear is actually bright or polite.

The more useful term IMO is TRANSPARENT=no tweaks on the recording.

whether we use the term "transparent" or "neutral" in saying what we want in a piece of kit,  i think we are referring to the same thing ? 
an unaltered, true representation of the source material, what the artist/recording engineers, producers had in mind when they laid it down.
some of like a little warmer sound, some like a little lighter sound, and what is in the middle is neither, it just gets out of the way
and imparts no colorations of its own. and, that's just my $.02 and we all know how much that's worth, about $.02  

 

[diamondears]

I haven't heard the original version, but LCD-2F I have doesn't sound like people describe the non-fazored version, i.e. "warm", "bass heavy" and somewhat "slow" and "wooly". It's very natural and neutral sounding to me, with a well-bodied low-end, lush mids and hint of sweetness in highs. Sounds like a refined, "bigger" HD650 to me.

I wouldn't care about bass rolloff on FR graphs as it's in the region which is absolutely not audible, but could help remove some unwanted resonances (so might be intentional).

Right now, I have both Rev. 2 (2012) and Fazor edition, and I have to beg to disagree on your impressions. The difference in bass articulation, body and mass is substantial, and it's definitley audible, and felt.

 

[diamondears]

whether we use the term "transparent" or "neutral" in saying what we want in a piece of kit,  i think we are referring to the same thing ? 
an unaltered, true representation of the source material, what the artist/recording engineers, producers had in mind when they laid it down.
some of like a little warmer sound, some like a little lighter sound, and what is in the middle is neither, it just gets out of the way
and imparts no colorations of its own. and, that's just my $.02 and we all know how much that's worth, about $.02  

I think many people relate neutrality to what they hear at the end of the stream, not what went before it (the digital-analog conversion process and amplification).

So when they play modern CDs with loudness war, for example, they think the DAC/amplification is bright, when its actually the recording or the CD that's bright.

 

[jaywillin]

I think many people relate neutrality to what they hear at the end of the stream, not what went before it (the digital-analog conversion process and amplification).

So when they play modern CDs with loudness war, for example, they think the DAC/amplification is bright, when its actually the recording or the CD that's bright.

my preference for gear, is if not "neutral/transparent" i want it to err on the side of warm side of neutral , i listen to a lot of music that the sq leaves something to be desired
but i love to song/performance so i'll listen anyway, bright grear, bright, rough, shallow recordings = painful listening experience for me

 

[diamondears]

my preference for gear, is if not "neutral/transparent" i want it to err on the side of warm side of neutral , i listen to a lot of music that the sq leaves something to be desired
but i love to song/performance so i'll listen anyway, bright grear, bright, rough, shallow recordings = painful listening experience for me

I'm listening right now to Bizarre Love Triangle rendered by Marianna Leporace. I'm using iPhone 6 Onkyo HF Player, iFi micro iDSD as DAC, and O2 as HP amplifier. No way the LCD-2 Rev. 2 is dark.

At first 55 seconds of the song, dang you'll think the LCD-2 is bright, sibilant even. Not even warm. If the LCD-2 is dark or warm, youshould have noticed in first 55 seconds. But no.

When the bass starts to kick in at 56 seconds, wow...you'll know how articulate and detailed the LCD-2 is, and the bass in this recording really digs into the sub-bass. Bass is not monotonous, you can hear and distinguish between different bass notes.

Really great, excellent cans.

 

[jaywillin]

I'm listening right now to Bizarre Love Triangle rendered by Marianna Leporace. I'm using iPhone 6 Onkyo HF Player, iFi micro iDSD as DAC, and O2 as HP amplifier. No way the LCD-2 Rev. 2 is dark.

At first 55 seconds of the song, dang you'll think the LCD-2 is bright, sibilant even. Not even warm. If the LCD-2 is dark or warm, youshould have noticed in first 55 seconds. But no.

When the bass starts to kick in at 56 seconds, wow...you'll know how articulate and detailed the LCD-2 is, and the bass in this recording really digs into the sub-bass. Bass is not monotonous, you can hear and distinguish between different bass notes.

Really great, excellent cans.

i agree, the lcd2f is awesome, i love it, i own it i sold my lcd x and got one.
i love my beyer t1 as much, and they do sound different, as do the 325e's i have
i love them all, and they all sound different, they all impart something different to the sound quality to whatever music i listen to

 

[diamondears]

i agree, the lcd2f is awesome, i love it, i own it i sold my lcd x and got one.
i love my beyer t1 as much, and they do sound different, as do the 325e's i have
i love them all, and they all sound different, they all impart something different to the sound quality to whatever music i listen to

And you'd wish you have all the time to listen to all of them. But right now, I find myself always reaching for the LCD-2s. My Grados are my first love on head-Fi cans though, so always find myself longing for it from time to time.

 

[jaywillin]

And you'd wish you have all the time to listen to all of them. But right now, I find myself always reaching for the LCD-2s. My Grados are my first love on head-Fi cans though, so always find myself longing for it from time to time.

the lcd2's have been with joedoe for a week or so, i've been listening to the t1 mostly, but when the lcd2 is here, the lcd2 probably gets more head time, but the t1 isn't close behind