[chesebert]

I've heard the he6se driven with my audio-gd master19.

If that planar is considered punchy with bass impact, you should hear what the denon d7200s sound like.

Either your amp is not driving the cans properly or we have different expectations.

 

[dougms3]

Either your amp is not driving the cans properly or we have different expectations.

Not sure what THD has to with driving the headphones.

The master19 can push 9W @ 40 ohms. It has more than enough power to drive the he6se.

They might be punchy and bassy for a planar but its not even close to what the d7200s can do.

 

[bagwell359]

I find that the the planar driver headphones vary wildly in capability but if theres one specific thing that its always lacking is the punchiness and impact with bass hits. Not talking about bass volume or extension but the authority of how the bass hits and some mid frequencies that require some oomph. The planars are usually excellent with technicals but its always missing this aspect with the exception of maybe the abyss frankensteiners.

They sound kind of flat compared to dynamic drivers.

The speed is quite nice with planars though, I don't think any dynamics can match planar speed.

I think its just a matter of taste, I wouldn't call one superior to the other, just a different flavor and we all have our own particular flavors like we like.

Based on what I know, have heard, and my tastes, I find the conclusion that planars lack impact to be - odd at a minimum.

First: do you like closed back dynamic phones with pumped up bass? And do you EQ more bass into them? If so, that explains a lot - if not:

What planars have you heard, and on what amps? Many planars that produce great bass need a lot of juice, far more than most dynamics.


I like fast, properly damped, flat bass - the bass heads (which I don't know where you fit) forget two things: bass at 20 Hz is not picked up by the human ear anywhere near as well as at say 80 Hz, its a fact, trying to change that via EQ is amusical at the least. The other thing is that if the musicians and engineers cut a recording at one level, that was the intent. I've read about people that use 5 to 15 db bass shelves on headphones that are already +3 or +5 in the bass.

 

[bagwell359]

I've heard the he6se driven with my audio-gd master19.

If that planar is considered punchy with bass impact, you should hear what the denon d7200s sound like.

To my point in the my last post. The D7200 has a broad and mammoth bass peak at 45 Hz measured between 5 and 9 db. The HE-6 SE v2 is down 2 db at 45 and down 5 db at 25 - its clear which one is closer to reality - and above that the HE-6 SE or v2 is far less choppy than the 7200. If that's what you like - no problem, but, knowledge is the key to everything.

 

[bagwell359]

Not sure what THD has to with driving the headphones.

The master19 can push 9W @ 40 ohms. It has more than enough power to drive the he6se.

They might be punchy and bassy for a planar but its not even close to what the d7200s can do.

HD has a big impact on some headphones - look at what OTL amps do for the HD-600 and HD-800. But, in this case that's plenty of amp for the HE-6 SE, however, as I pointed out, the 7200 is inaccurate in the bass. I haven't heard the 7200's in a long time - but pumped up bass and reticent upper mids, and spiky treble is what I recall.

 

[chesebert]

Not sure what THD has to with driving the headphones.

The master19 can push 9W @ 40 ohms. It has more than enough power to drive the he6se.

They might be punchy and bassy for a planar but its not even close to what the d7200s can do.

That’s the power to thd graph. It looks like the amp can do 3-4w at 68ohm before clipping. Also, you might want to measure the dc offset because that will reduce the bass response as the diaphragm will have less distance to travel.

 

[TWerk]

I absolutely love Hifiman and I love the bass of the 500 and 6SE. It is clear, defined, extends, and it hits with authority. It doesn't interfere with the beauty of the rest of the frequency ranges either, which gives you the full musical info. I've become less and less of a bass head as I've grown to appreciate everything else in music and those two are some of my favorite headphones all together.

However, I do also know what Doug is talking about with the dynamic driver and the harder more punchy character of some of those drivers. I pick it up most easily on my Ultrasones - they punch and whomp and reverberate in the bass. Sivga 021 is another bassy headphone too and you get that reverb sound as well. I'm sure you have a similar thing going on with the 7200.

It gives EDM and trance type music that unique club like feeling - it is quite different than a Hifiman or an extremely quick and accurate H/P. A slower decay in the bass can really make a difference and that gives a different feeling - planars tend to have very quick decay.

It's headphones like these that make me understand it's not all resolution. There's a place for that in the hobby, but there is also place for headphones to add color and a signature. Most people here are looking for musical enjoyment and there are different approaches to get there if we aren't looking solely at distortion graphs.

 

[dougms3]

HD has a big impact on some headphones - look at what OTL amps do for the HD-600 and HD-800. But, in this case that's plenty of amp for the HE-6 SE, however, as I pointed out, the 7200 is inaccurate in the bass. I haven't heard the 7200's in a long time - but pumped up bass and reticent upper mids, and spiky treble is what I recall.

I don't use EQ. Don't care about "accuracy". Looks like you're reaching for negatives about the d7200s.

I'm specifically referring to the punchiness and bass impact, not volume, speed or extension.

I've heard the lcd2, lcd2 closed, lcd-x, lcd-xc, ananda, arya, he6se, kennerton thror and probably a few more I can't remember off the top of my head.

All of the planars I've had a chance to listen to were similar in this aspect with the exception of the abyss 1266 but even that was not at the same level as the d7200s.

Its just the way it is, the design of dynamic drivers moves air the old fashioned way, a planar doesn't move so it can't give you the same type of punchiness and bass impact. Planars have some advantages over dynamic drivers but thats not one of them.

It also lacks a heft behind the bass hits so does the d7200 for that matter. Nothing I've heard can match the way the bass hits on the focal clear og with sheepskin pads. It has a driving weight behind the bass impact. The d7200s are fast, extend low and hit hard but they lack that weight behind the hits as well.

 

[jonathan c]

I don't use EQ. Don't care about "accuracy". Looks like you're reaching for negatives about the d7200s.

I'm specifically referring to the punchiness and bass impact, not volume, speed or extension.

I've heard the lcd2, lcd2 closed, lcd-x, lcd-xc, ananda, arya, he6se, kennerton thror and probably a few more I can't remember off the top of my head.

All of the planars I've had a chance to listen to were similar in this aspect with the exception of the abyss 1266 but even that was not at the same level as the d7200s.

Its just the way it is, the design of dynamic drivers moves air the old fashioned way, a planar doesn't move so it can't give you the same type of punchiness and bass impact. Planars have some advantages over dynamic drivers but thats not one of them.

It also lacks a heft behind the bass hits so does the d7200 for that matter. Nothing I've heard can match the way the bass hits on the focal clear og with sheepskin pads.** It has a driving weight behind the bass impact. The d7200s are fast, extend low and hit hard but they lack that weight behind the hits as well.

**

 

[chesebert]

I think we are all getting in the weeds. No planar can do punchy like the most punchy dynamic - PS-1 for example. I don’t feel HE6se is lacking just not the most punchy cans I have or have heard. We get it. Let’s move on.

 

[dougms3]

That’s the power to thd graph. It looks like the amp can do 3-4w at 68ohm before clipping. Also, you might want to measure the dc offset because that will reduce the bass response as the diaphragm will have less distance to travel.

Nah doesn't clip, dc offset is fine.

He6se is just not to my liking. I've tried it on two separate occaisions because you and others have praised it so highly. Not my cup of tea.

I also tried it again at canjam. If they have it there, I'll try it again at this upcoming canjam to make 1000% sure I don't like it.

 

[bagwell359]

I don't use EQ. Don't care about "accuracy". Looks like you're reaching for negatives about the d7200s.

Didn't have to reach, the objective facts are there. But if you don't care about accuracy, then nothing will get us to agree.

I'm specifically referring to the punchiness and bass impact, not volume, speed or extension.

Punchiness to me is proper damping and a quick and powerful rise time, and proper decay.

I've heard the lcd2, lcd2 closed, lcd-x, lcd-xc, ananda, arya, he6se, kennerton thror and probably a few more I can't remember off the top of my head.

HE-6 OG, E2, Phi (two), D8000, LCD-4 OG are at the apex of those I have heard. Long cup HFM do not have stellar impact.

All of the planars I've had a chance to listen to were similar in this aspect with the exception of the abyss 1266 but even that was not at the same level as the d7200s.

OK.... please go to the Phi thread, and pose that statement there.

Its just the way it is, the design of dynamic drivers moves air the old fashioned way, a planar doesn't move so it can't give you the same type of punchiness and bass impact. Planars have some advantages over dynamic drivers but thats not one of them.

First of all do not conflate issues of open back vs closed back - which may be the case here. I cannot agree in the least with your statement on planars not moving air.

It also lacks a heft behind the bass hits so does the d7200 for that matter. Nothing I've heard can match the way the bass hits on the focal clear og with sheepskin pads. It has a driving weight behind the bass impact. The d7200s are fast, extend low and hit hard but they lack that weight behind the hits as well.

Well, no need to go further. My modded and lightly EQ'd HE-6 SE lays waste to the Clear OG in every aspect of bass. The Clear has a nasty resonace peak at 60 Hz and the bass falls away below that.

Ciao.

 

[dougms3]

Didn't have to reach, the objective facts are there. But if you don't care about accuracy, then nothing will get us to agree.

Punchiness to me is proper damping and a quick and powerful rise time, and proper decay.

HE-6 OG, E2, Phi (two), D8000, LCD-4 OG are at the apex of those I have heard. Long cup HFM do not have stellar impact.

OK.... please go to the Phi thread, and pose that statement there.

First of all do not conflate issues of open back vs closed back - which may be the case here. I cannot agree in the least with your statement on planars not moving air.

Well, no need to go further. My modded and lightly EQ'd HE-6 SE lays waste to the Clear OG in every aspect of bass. The Clear has a nasty resonace peak at 60 Hz and the bass falls away below that.

Ciao.

Getting awfully defensive there. Oh so you've heard the d7200s then?

You asked me which other planars I've heard and I answered.

Nah its not an issue vs open and closed, issue of how punchy and hard the music hits, all the planars I've heard are weaker vs dynamic in this aspect. Agree to disagree.

Yes the bass does taper off in the lower frequencies and yes its on the bright side just like the Utopia, its like that. So you've tried a focal clear og with sheepskin pads then? Have you heard my modded focal clear og?

If I wanted neutralish tuning, I guess I'd go with the he6se, but I find that to be boring. Fact of the matter is, the bass doesn't hit anywhere near as hard as the dynamics I've heard, thats all I'm saying. No need to get defensive about it.

I'll be bringing my modded d7200s to canjam, I really hope the he6se is there so I can compare .

 

[hottyson]

I don't use EQ.

I hear ya. I didn't equalize for three decades and I insisted on keeping my audio chain pure.
.
Fast forward three decades, I watched resolve's videos on the Headphone.com YouTube channel, I though what the heck, it wouldn't hurt to get a taste of equalization and then immediately return to purity. What I heard was 90 percent improvement on 90 percent of my headphones. I never realized what I had been missing. The elevation of sound quality blew me away. I really don't know how I can go back to my pure audio signal days now. Particularly with modern headphones. Today's headphones seem to be designed for and take to equalization much better than classic headphones. I believe that my old classic headphones were designed with no equalization in mind because back then most of us believed in keeping the signal path pure and unaltered. However, in todays digital realm we are able to maintain precision throughout digital signal processing which has enabled my listening habits to evolve so much for the better.

 

[dougms3]

I hear ya. I didn't equalize for three decades and I insisted on keeping my audio chain pure.
.
Fast forward three decades, I watched resolve's videos on the Headphone.com YouTube channel, I though what the heck, it wouldn't hurt to get a taste of equalization and then immediately return to purity. What I heard was 90 percent improvement on 90 percent of my headphones. I never realized what I had been missing. The elevation of sound quality blew me away. I really don't know how I can go back to my pure audio signal days now. Particularly with modern headphones. Today's headphones seem to be designed for and take to equalization much better than classic headphones. I believe that my old classic headphones were designed with no equalization in mind because back then most of us believed in keeping the signal path pure and unaltered. However, in todays digital realm we are able to maintain precision throughout digital signal processing which has enabled my listening habits to evolve so much for the better.

While i have nothing against eq, i prefer not to use it.

I like the different signatures each headphone offers. And with what i currently have in my collection, i don't really feel the need to eq.

Another reason is that i like to use dsd upsampling and it seems to distort more easily than with pcm.