[ratdog]

I use a 3rd gen and 5.5 gen ipod with a cmoy amp paired with Senn HD580's. Most of my mp3's are in EAC Lame 3.90 which was recommended to me by Ubernet for those that remember. I believe the files vary between 128-320 kb/s VBR range. With all the talk nowadays of lossless I'm wondering if my collection benefits from a decent amp and headphones or if I wasted my money and should have encoded in lossless? I was thinking about buying a new headphone amp but was wondering if the only way to extract it's performance would be to switch to lossless. Lastly should I only be using the 5.5 as it contains the wolfson DAC and the 3rd gen doesn't? Or is the difference minimal.

 

[monolith]

Generally, the difference between lossless and mid bitrate and above mp3s is inaudible (ie. for most people with most music). 128 is low enough that I think it sounds bad most of the time though, even not on good headphones.

That said, better headphones and to some extent a better amp will definitely improve the sound you get, mp3s or otherwise.

As for the different iPod question, the only person I've seen here with experience in this regard is bigshot, to whom the 3rd and 5th gen iPods sound the same. In your place I'd go for a classic if for no reason other than the space and that it's not very ugly (like the 3rd gen ipods are).

Anyway

 

[Orcin]

The best way to answer your question is to test it for yourself. AAC 256kbps VBR is transparent to me on the ipod, but that is not relevant to you because your ears are unique.

Rip a lossless file (Apple Lossless via iTunes will work well for this) and copy it to your ipod. Compare it to the LAME version you already have on your ipod. If the difference is not pretty obvious to you, then you probably won't benefit a great deal from converting. This is not a scientific test, but it's enough to give you a general idea. I suspect that the difference is small enough that you won't care about it via an ipod.

Personally, I don't think you wasted your money buying an amp and decent phones for use with compressed files. If it sounds better than the ipod alone and apple buds, it was an upgrade.

 

[FiNoobie]

Ratdog, great questions as I was in the same boat. I recently took the plunge and got a set of good cans and an amp. I have a DAP with thousands of MP3s and as monolith pointed out, 128 sounds bad no matter amped or not, but when I get into tracks with 192+ bitrate I can hear big differences.

The evil thing is it makes me want MORE! So I started ripping my CDs to FLAC, although I haven't yet experienced their SQ becasue I am having issues with it but I hope to resolve the issues and hear the lossless SQ soon.

Bottom line, I don't think it will be a waste of money.

 

[jilgiljongiljing]

I don't think so either. I have enjoyed several Mp3 files at 192 kbps that sounded better as my headphones got better.

 

[ratdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monolith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Generally, the difference between lossless and mid bitrate and above mp3s is inaudible (ie. for most people with most music). 128 is low enough that I think it sounds bad most of the time though, even not on good headphones. That said, better headphones and to some extent a better amp will definitely improve the sound you get, mp3s or otherwise. As for the different iPod question, the only person I've seen here with experience in this regard is bigshot, to whom the 3rd and 5th gen iPods sound the same. In your place I'd go for a classic if for no reason other than the space and that it's not very ugly (like the 3rd gen ipods are). Anyway

It's funny you say the 3rd gen ipods are ugly as I think it is the best looking gen especially when the controls light up red. So the general consesous is that SQ is pretty similar? The only reason I ask is that redwine audio says that won't do the imod on 3rg gen ipods because they are inferior to the 4th and 5th gens with wolfson DAC's.

 

[bigshot]

Better headphones make everything sound better, because the response is more balanced. But you have very good headphones and adequate amplification. Your greatest improvement would come from encoding all of your files at 192 (or higher). Your files at 128 might have problems with artifacting. I'd suggest 256 VBR.

See ya
Steve

 

[GreatDane]

I'd rather listen to 160 kbps with HD 650 than 320 kbps with PX-100.

I use highest quality vbr...whatever that's called.

 

[BigEat]

I agree with all of the above. Clearly a better amp and better headphones raise the level of the sonic quality whether the source recording is average or great. That said, I think as the equipment improves, the quality of the recording itself reveals itself, and to some degree by the same logic, I think you can tell a bigger difference between lossleess and lower bitrate files (albeit a slight difference in some cases).

 

[scompton]

In any of the ABX testing I've done, I've yet to be able to hear the difference between AAC 128kbps VBR and Apple Lossless, no matter what of my equipment I use. I don't have extremely high end stuff, but what I have is pretty good. I think its mainly not knowing exactly what to list for and having a horrible musical memory, at least for fine details.

Even if I could hear the difference, I'd probably still load 128kbps VBR on my iPod because I listen while commuting on mass transit, cutting the grass, etc. The background noise from any of these overwhelm any subtle differences. I archive with lossless and, since I have it on my computer, that's usually what I listen to.

BTW, not everything sounds better on better equipment. Some old recordings classical recordings have too much surface noise to be listenable with my Stax.

 

[BIG POPPA]

I don't own one lossless file and I am happy. Back in the day I decided to go MP3 so what ever the source would be I could listen to it. Haven't went to the dark side yet!

 

[bigshot]

Those old classical recordings that sound bad on your Stax probably sound that way because the transfer engineer didn't do a good job of balancing the levels of noise reduction and equalization. I've heard really good transfers of material as far back as the early electrical period that sound great through good cans.

See ya
Steve

 

[Ross]

I'm currently listening to MP3s at around 192kbps VBR, on an 80GB ipod classic, using an ALO line out dock, Oehlbach cable into a Ray Samuels SR-71, and then into Etymotic ER4s re-cabled by apuresound. It is hard to imagine a better portable set-up, and the sound is stunning. The difference with lossless is minimal to zero, and good equipment is definitely worth it even with MP3s.

 

[Drag0n]

I use 192, but some music is 128 because its just my fun music and it doesnt have to sound as good, and i need the room for more tunes. If i get a big enough Hard Drive on another player, ill rip at a higher bit rate.

 

[SiBurning]

I notice the difference between mp3 (256k) and lossless. The biggest difference is that room acoustic disappear entirely with mp3. But to take advantage of this extra quality, I use an external DAC (see my sig). The extra musical information is largely offset by blur when listening straight out of the iRiver player, which doesn't have a capable DAC. An amp doesn't change any of this, since it can only make things sound worse.

I used to keep a section of (256k or maybe 360k) MP3s on my DAP, just for comparison. Several times I noticed something wrong with the music. It turned out that the player rolled into the mp3 section. This happened several times on a noisy street (Park Ave. behind Grand Central Station in NYC) and even once on a subway car while rolling fast under the East River.

Unfortunately, I can't extrapolate this to whether lossless is going to make much difference on an ipod. It depends entirely on the quality of the DAC and internal amplifier. Given how many people claim there's no difference, I would tend to conclude that you need a good external DAC for lossless to be worthwhile.

BUT...

Your ears are judge, jury, and executioner. Why don't you try encoding both ways and compare for a while? Beg, borrow, go to a meet, or an apple store if you want to hear something new. Bring your music and ask if you can check out a comparison with lossless.