[olblueyez]

Mine were 325 and they beat out the BJC I bought from Nick by a wide margin.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I guess you have tried every cable with every piece of equipment?

If we adapted this mindset to other aspects of our lives, we wouldn't be able to say that the world is round because a) we haven't traversed the entire world, or even 10% of it, and b) we haven't gone out into space. There are things that we can learn without having directly experienced them.

Sure you can't be absolutely certain that there isn't some mythical cable out there that can change the sound, but you can still be pretty sure that the cable doesn't exist. This is the entire basis for statistics - if you take a representative sample, sure you can't be 100% sure that your analysis applies to the population at large, but you can be 99% sure of it, and I'd rather hedge my bets on the 99% than go around convinced that the 1% is definitively true.

Here's a question for you (even though you've ignored me, although you might do the usual and un-ignore me, respond once with personal insults, and then ignore me again... but I digress): how do you know gravity exists? Surely you haven't seen every single instance of someone falling before. What if, instead of falling down, that person fell upwards?

To make this more relevant to audio:

Teleportation Tweak Audio Video Telephone Advanced Long Distance Quantum Entanglement

Have you tried this? If not, how can you be sure this isn't a scam?

 

[spanimal]

Royal crown. It is of my opinion that you get ignored based largely on the factor that the image you have selected to accompany your identification will be interpreted by some, including myself, as some kind of gay persona. I feel awkward interacting with gay males. Are you some kind of a gay, to put it bluntly, what kinda faggot **** are you? Perhaps your just a feminine and sensitive kinda male? Unless your a female, in which case I take it all back and would like to get to know you some more.

 

[zeroibis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif You sir are a FREAKING TROLL First you come like the guy who just follows science "blindly", and now a week later you try some cables and they change your way of thinking completely. Obviously you have read a lot of nonsense about cables and you have FOOLED yourself in thinking there are differences. First mistake you make is instead of approaching those "differences" from a scientific point of view (as you should have done if you had really followed science from the start) you have gone into an "oh lord, I hear a difference" state. And "then if I hear a difference, every scientific reason that states there are NO AUDIBLE DIFFERENCES, and that no one has passed a DBT MUST be wrong". Just quit the trolling and don't make me laugh at your intellect...

I just wanted to point out that at the end of the day is not the only thing that matters if you hear or think you do a difference that to you justifies the price? As was stated earlier the mind is very complex and can sometimes not see what is real and other times does a better job then the best equipment in the world. Regardless of if a computer can find a difference or not what matters is that the listener likes the sound.

Take for example some art work that appears in 3d. In the Vatican for example there are some paintings that when you look at them they seem to come out at you as if they were really a sculpture in reality this image is 2d and is on a plain flat surface. A computer would see no difference between this image and another that does not have the 3d effect because the computer knows that the image is 2d. A human as a result of the way they see the data thinks the image is 3d.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanimal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Royal crown. It is of my opinion that you get ignored based largely on the factor that the image you have selected to accompany your identification will be interpreted by some, including myself, as some kind of gay persona. I feel awkward interacting with gay males. Are you some kind of a gay, to put it bluntly, what kinda faggot **** are you? Perhaps your just a feminine and sensitive kinda male? Unless your a female, in which case I take it all back and would like to get to know you some more.

My avatar has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments - calling me a faggot for no reason just makes you look like a total assclown. Are you so desperate that you have to throw around insults to hide the fact that you have no response whatsoever to my argument? God forbid any actual homosexuals on head-fi read this post and actually find themselves offended - pretty tactless if you ask me.

olbueyez doesn't just ignore me, he ignores a whole bunch of people after personally insulting them (as you have just done to me, for no reason - I never once insulted you, or even replied to your posts, so I don't see why you feel so compelled to personally insult me and call me a faggot for no reason). It's a pretty stable pattern that many people, aside from myself, have noticed.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroibis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just wanted to point out that at the end of the day is not the only thing that matters if you hear or think you do a difference that to you justifies the price? As was stated earlier the mind is very complex and can sometimes not see what is real and other times does a better job then the best equipment in the world. Regardless of if a computer can find a difference or not what matters is that the listener likes the sound. Take for example some art work that appears in 3d. In the Vatican for example there are some paintings that when you look at them they seem to come out at you as if they were really a sculpture in reality this image is 2d and is on a plain flat surface. A computer would see no difference between this image and another that does not have the 3d effect because the computer knows that the image is 2d. A human as a result of the way they see the data thinks the image is 3d.

The problem isn't that people claim to hear differences, it's that they claim that the cables are the things making the difference, and not their own minds. Then when people point out that the differences are, in fact, in their mind (no cable 'skeptic' denies this), the cable 'believers' say the 'skeptics' either have tin ears, or cheap equipment, or other such personal insults. If the cable 'believers' actually admit that the differences are in their head and not due to the cable itself, then there'd be no debate.

 

[zeroibis]

Apparently the only argument he has left is just a bunch of ad hominem crap...

So is everyone here with a female avatar that is a male gay and thus stupid and thus has no valid arguments? Now this is an absurd statement to make, lets all try to keep this thread on track and quell these foolish personal attacks.

Ah yes I see, my point is that they can both be correct in the way that there is a difference made but only one that the human mind can truly see. Take for example those large papers looking at different amp circuits that found the earth and moon to be bad despite the fact that everyone generally agrees that those sound better than the other amps that were tested. My point is just that no level of computer based testing can ever truly simulate the way the mind interprets the data and the cables can very well effect the audio but not in ways that instruments can detect. This is why I tired to relate it to some 3d paintings now on your computer screen this looks sort of 3d:

but in real life it is incredible. There are some things that computers can not see and just because the 3d effect is only in your mind does not mean that the style of painting and the way the room is does not effect the way it looks holistically.

 

[spanimal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif My avatar has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments - calling me a faggot for no reason just makes you look like a total assclown. Are you so desperate that you have to throw around insults to hide the fact that you have no response whatsoever to my argument? God forbid any actual homosexuals on head-fi read this post and actually find themselves offended - pretty tactless if you ask me. olbueyez doesn't just ignore me, he ignores a whole bunch of people after personally insulting them (as you have just done to me, for no reason - I never once insulted you, or even replied to your posts, so I don't see why you feel so compelled to personally insult me and call me a faggot for no reason). It's a pretty stable pattern that many people, aside from myself, have noticed.

I gather that your not a babe that would like to get together for a coffee. You see... feminine males get angered quickly... OK I'm sorry, It was tactless and in todays society should never be tolerated.

ps I didnt answer your post because.....well, your are so smart and I have feel that I cannot communictae at your level of education and fear to be exposed for a dummy that I am... no seriously...forgive me!!!!

love
peace
tolerance
equality
sharing
unity

 

[spanimal]

whats ad hominen?

 

[zeroibis]

Sorry crappy spell check does not work on Latin: ad hominem is the correct word. It is a logical fallacy of argumentation and is when someone attacks the person and not the argument. Literally it translates to something like argument to man or to the man something like that.

wow apparently I had munch instead of bunch up there too edit has corrected those errors

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroibis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah yes I see, my point is that they can both be correct in the way that there is a difference made but only one that the human mind can truly see. Take for example those large papers looking at different amp circuits that found the earth and moon to be bad despite the fact that everyone generally agrees that those sound better than the other amps that were tested. My point is just that no level of computer based testing can ever truly simulate the way the mind interprets the data and the cables can very well effect the audio but not in ways that instruments can detect. This is why I tired to relate it to some 3d paintings now on your computer screen this looks sort of 3d: -image snipped to reduce bulk- but in real life it is incredible. There are some things that computers can not see and just because the 3d effect is only in your mind does not mean that the style of painting and the way the room is does not effect the way it looks holistically.

That's a good point, and I do agree that there's no substitute for using your ears (that was the thrust of your original argument and I didn't quite pick it up as strongly). That said, however, I think that those differences that cannot be determined by testing equipment should still be discernible by human ears, and insofar as this is true a double blind test should account for those differences. I think the majority of the debate centers around whether or not DBT is valid or not, and I think (for now) that's where the most tension is. Of course, there's no guarantee that if this tension is resolved, that some other field will not pop up soon thereafter.

 

[spanimal]

OK point taken...

royal crown. to answer your question. If I saw someone falling upwards. I think I would drop to my knees and pray for gods forgiveness, join a convent and become a monk. I am trying real hard now to connect this with audio but I need some help with that one as well.

 

[BIG POPPA]

I have cables that sound different on my rig. 2 sets of 16 AWG silver plated copper with Rhodium connectors and a couple sets of Tartan cables. To me and a few buddy's they sound different. There is another Seattle meet brewing up at this moment and who ever want's to prove to me why they sound the same or see why they sound different you are more than welcome to listen to my rig. Instead of name calling, get together and see why we believe what we do and try to get to the other side of the coin on things. Contraversy makes this site great, name calling and belittling a different opinion takes away from the thread. Challege a belief in person, that is where we all learn something.

 

[zeroibis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a good point, and I do agree that there's no substitute for using your ears (that was the thrust of your original argument and I didn't quite pick it up as strongly). That said, however, I think that those differences that cannot be determined by testing equipment should still be discernible by human ears, and insofar as this is true a double blind test should account for those differences. I think the majority of the debate centers around whether or not DBT is valid or not, and I think (for now) that's where the most tension is. Of course, there's no guarantee that if this tension is resolved, that some other field will not pop up soon thereafter.

Agreed, the focus now should be if something subjective such as art and music can reliably be validated though DBT.

Short example, when I played a song on my DT990 and then on some 10$ headphones my sis preferred the cheep ones I asked her to tell me how they sounded different and it turns out she just did not like how the DT990 changed the sound and brought out changes that she did not like over the cheep cans. This was more due to her not liking the style of music I played for her, but I think it highlights the subjective nature of sound in general and how the person who provides the data can have a great effect on its reliability at least with regard to things of a subjective nature.

 

[royalcrown]

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