[ssrock64]

The A110 and Miura are completely different beasts from the Europa, though. In comparison to other offerings similar to it (small, light, modestly-powered sports cars for not too much money) at the time, it takes the cake. And it's still a decent little car today. I don't mean it's astounding by any means (neither is any Lotus, really, since the Seven), but it's a good, solid sports car.

 

[Hutnicks]

  The A110 and Miura are completely different beasts from the Europa, though. In comparison to other offerings similar to it (small, light, modestly-powered sports cars for not too much money) at the time, it takes the cake. And it's still a decent little car today. I don't mean it's astounding by any means (neither is any Lotus, really, since the Seven), but it's a good, solid sports car.

I'd have to disagree about the A110 it has more similarities to the Europa than I care to name.

 

[jimmers]

 
I'd have to disagree about the A110 it has more similarities to the Europa than I care to name.

Please care.

 

[Hutnicks]

  Please care.

Shared powerplants.In fact some versions of the 110 could be ordered with the Lotus engine. Shared construction in body over steel backbone chassis. Engine placement rear and mid(sic) engined. Limited production models from low volume specialty manufacturers.
They both had pretty much the same product longevity as well. Eventually reaching their limits  to be replaced by the Esprit and A310 (DeLoreans inspiration for his epinonymous automobile) respectively.
 
Personally I'd walk by both of em if faced with a pristine R17 Gordini, but that's just me

 

[Magick Man]

The Elan +2 (that is a +2 in the image) was Lotus' attempt to enter the sedan market, and they're extremely rare over on this side of the pond (estimates of ~25) with around 1000 in the world... out of >5k made. Like the off-model Ferraris of the 50s and 60s, most were harvested for mechanical parts and the bodies were recycled. Value hasn't caught up with them, like it's starting to with the S1 Elites, but it will. I think it's a cool car, like the Ferrari 400SA Aerodinamico sub-models, though underpowered.

 

[Hutnicks]

The Elan +2 (that is a +2 in the image) was Lotus' attempt to enter the sedan market, and they're extremely rare over on this side of the pond (estimates of ~25) with around 1000 in the world... out of >5k made. Like the off-model Ferraris of the 50s and 60s, most were harvested for mechanical parts and the bodies were recycled. Value hasn't caught up with them, like it's starting to with the S1 Elites, but it will. I think it's a cool car, like the Ferrari 400SA Aerodinamico sub-models, though underpowered.

Last I had heard 25-30k would get you a +2. Greatly improved handling over the Elan though.
Are those numbers accurate? They seemed to be a little more prolific or that may just be a memory trick.
The owner of AimAutosports mother drove one back in the day

 

[billybob_jcv]

My biggest beef with the Europa, other than that hideous rear deck, was the Renault motor. I don't even care whether it was a good or bad motor - it wasn't a Lotus motor. It wasn't until the Europa Specials that it got a proper Lotus motor. If I'm buying a Lotus, I want a Lotus motor, just like when I'm buying a Porsche, I don't want to open the deck lid and see the engine from a VW bus!

 

[ssrock64]

My biggest beef with the Europa, other than that hideous rear deck, was the Renault motor. I don't even care whether it was a good or bad motor - it wasn't a Lotus motor. It wasn't until the Europa Specials that it got a proper Lotus motor. If I'm buying a Lotus, I want a Lotus motor, just like when I'm buying a Porsche, I don't want to open the deck lid and see the engine from a VW bus!

Do you consider their current powerplants to be Lotus engines since there's serious modification done to them to keep them far from their Toyota roots?

 

[ssrock64]

I think it's a cool car, like the Ferrari 400SA Aerodinamico sub-models, though underpowered.

I actually thought that 400 was an ATS for a moment, not a Ferrari.

 

[Hutnicks]

My biggest beef with the Europa, other than that hideous rear deck, was the Renault motor. I don't even care whether it was a good or bad motor - it wasn't a Lotus motor. It wasn't until the Europa Specials that it got a proper Lotus motor. If I'm buying a Lotus, I want a Lotus motor, just like when I'm buying a Porsche, I don't want to open the deck lid and see the engine from a VW bus!

Well in all truth the Mighty Lotus twincam was actually a Ford engine. Lotus had the twincam head designed for their use and Ford subsequently bought it back from them. No the wound with the Europa and the 914 lies deeper than just an engine choice. Lotus could have super tuned the Renault engine, or mated the ZF to a Twincam right off the bat. Porsche could have used the boxer 6 from the get go (or the 8 Ferry had installed in his personal 914) and both cars would still have looked as out of place as a Beluga whale in Miami in their respective stables. The real travesty is that both makers betrayed their own ideals and took short cuts to get them into production. Either car bears no likeness to what the brand had been developing into with regards to style, and that among purists was a slap in the face. They became known as "The other (Lotus or Porsche) and at the time were looked at as some kind of consolation prize for those who could not afford a "real" offering from the marque. By the time they had evolved into the Lotus 47 and 914/6 nobody except those who were going racing even cared.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Do you consider their current powerplants to be Lotus engines since there's serious modification done to them to keep them far from their Toyota roots?

I have trouble considering the current Lotus company to be Lotus, let alone any of the cars. I think Lotus *was* Colin Chapman. I'm not sure what Lotus is today. They still do some very cool engineering, but I think the actual cars currently being produced under the Lotus name are just weird little go karts.

I agree with Hutnicks - He's right, the engine was just part of the bigger issue.

 

[ssrock64]

Boy, I shouldn't have mentioned the Europa around you guys.

 

[billybob_jcv]

lol - don't worry about it - Hutnicks hates plenty of cars that I love...

I think when a car company that has cars that you love comes out with one that disappoints you, the reaction is probably stronger than it otherwise would be. In contrast, when Dodge comes out with a car I don't like, I barely even notice...

 

[Hutnicks]

lol - don't worry about it - Hutnicks hates plenty of cars that I love...

I think when a car company that has cars that you love comes out with one that disappoints you, the reaction is probably stronger than it otherwise would be. In contrast, when Dodge comes out with a car I don't like, I barely even notice...

Thats pretty much it. The expectation is set by the manufacturer and when a product falls short it leads to a lot of head shaking and toes in the dirt "Say it aint so Joe"
 
On that note, standing out watching the ice melt yesterday and the local Bentley goes by, a fastback Chrysler 300 for 25 times the price. CAD has ruined production automobiles.
 
On the new Lotus. Billy I have no idea why but whenever I see one I cannot help but think of the mini Marcos. Some twisted mind thing going on I'm sure.
 
I love differences of opinion. It's really why the car industry exists as it does after all. Else we'd of all been driving Iaccoca's KMart cars in blissful ignorance for all eternity

 
I have a lot of soft spots for cars most folks would walk right on by so I don't consider my opinions to be the last word on automotive authority in any way shape or form. Much like audio it's all in the eye of the beholder.
 
So what y'all think of the Citroen SM?

 

[Magick Man]

Some new stuff.

We flew out to Lebanon (I love that, now I can hop all over the place), my mechanic, our detailing guy, and I, to check out the Lotus and Volvo. The Volvo is in a state, it runs okay but the rust is bad in places, I'd give this a "project" condition, not even a lowly 4. He'd said 12k for it, but it's not worth more than half that, the Elan +2 was even worse. The Elite was nice, however, I give it a solid 3+. It drove well too, its engine came out of a Lotus Cortina rally car, so it does have some pep to it (160hp hauling around only 1200lbs, you can imagine). We ended up haggling a bit and we worked out a package deal price of 52.5 for the both (and a set of 16" Fuchs wheels). I can live with that.

Better news is, we made a huge find. My 250GT Ellena doesn't have its original engine, however after a lot of digging we found out where the one in it came from, a same-year (58) LWB Boano. With even more digging by my minion, she found out its serial number, where it is, and a previous owner. After that, she followed the chain of ownership to the person who has it now, a dealership in Copenhagen. It had been in really bad shape, left for a long time in a garage after a wreck, so someone took it and tried to part it out. Well, a mechanic at that aforementioned dealership bought the car, worked on it, restored it, drove and enjoyed it for a while, and some time back put it up for sale with the car dealer he works for.



Here's the deal, however, it's not a sought after model (we talked in the past about these "lost" Fezzas), though very rare they don't have the value of a TdF or a Cabrio. Also it doesn't have its original engine (obviously), and that hurts it too, so despite being a looker it doesn't have very much real collectibility. Most of the big auction houses probably wouldn't have much to do with it, so the price he was asking wasn't too bad, ATC. Acting like a garden variety, self-indulgent, American wanker, I lowballed them. No need to let them know how badly I want it, right? To my surprise, they practically met me in the middle, and as of this morning we've worked it out from there. I'm fit to be tied.