[hifimanrookie]

As in Ragnarok correct? Does that qualify as a "speaker amp"?(just asking since so many people in this thread are saying that speaker amps are superior for these cans)

What kind of sound signature does it have with HE-6?

Thanks!

To make one point clear...speaker amps are NOT better then headphone amps for driving ur He6. It all depends on the amp...BUT to get the headphone amp u need that provides the QUALITY power the HE6 needs u need to invest HUGELY..the exceptionally good ones dont come cheap....a quality speaker amp is generally speaking a much cheaper way to drive the he6 well....

BUT...if u manage to find (And have the budget) a specialist to design and make u a high quality custom amp of which its only purpose is to drive ur HE6, then who knows what u will hear through ur HE6 or just get that mono monster amp of woo audio or that new sexy italian amp (viva something) and ur done.. But hey those easily cost ya north of 6000usd if i am not mistaken

But between us...the RAG is getting lots of love lately...also for the HE6... But never heard one YET...so i cant tell ya if its all as good as they say..sorry..but am sure others can help u in that matter

 

[TonyNewman]

To make one point clear...speaker amps are NOT better then headphone amps for driving ur He6. It all depends on the amp...BUT to get the headphone amp u need that provides the QUALITY power the HE6 needs u need to invest HUGELY..the exceptionally good ones dont come cheap....a quality speaker amp is generally speaking a much cheaper way to drive the he6 well....

BUT...if u manage to find (And have the budget) a specialist to design and make u a high quality custom amp of which its only purpose is to drive ur HE6, then who knows what u will hear through ur HE6

or just get that mono monster amp of woo audio or that new sexy italian amp (viva something) and ur done.. But hey those easily cost ya north of 6000usd if i am not mistaken

But between us...the RAG is getting lots of love lately...also for the HE6... But never heard one YET...so i cant tell ya if its all as good as they say..sorry..but am sure others can help u in that matter

 
The Viva Egoista is around 10K, the WA234 around 15K. Those are the top of the top for headphone amps, sitting with the other heavyweights like the Apex Pinnacle and other pieces of gear I will never own

 
The 'relatively' inexpensive WA5 drives the HE6 just fine from the K1K output. Good tubes plus amp is getting north of 6K - that's a lot of amp just to drive the HE6.

 

[preproman]

Well I would say amp for amp - Your average speaker amp "IS" better than your average headphone amp for driving the HE-6.  So yes, "generally" speaker amps are a better way to go. 
 
 
Maybe we need to compile a list of lower priced speaker amps that may work well with the HE-6.  Here's a start..
 
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/
 
Maybe here:  https://emotiva.com/

 

[NoxNoctum]

Alright well I'll look into getting the Ragnarok from Schiit -- looks like it's 2-3 weeks before shipping out ATM unfortunately.
 
I'm already of course googling like mad --- but if anyone can offer their input on how Ragnarok/HE-6 sounds with metal and hard rock that'd be awesome. I've been posting in the "ultimate heapdhones for metal" thread and HE-6 is getting lots of praise, but also a few people seemed unsure Rag was a good choice.
 
ATM I am auditioning a LCD-2 with Lyr and my impressions are that it's just a bit too dark and lacks the bite that distorted guitar needs to sound good. At the same time, I am wary of ending up with something super bright as I've had some bad experiences with that (I absolutely loathe a thin/tinny sound)
 
I'm just posting in both threads as I'm not sure how much crossover there is.
 
Other thread for those curious:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution/

 

[NoxNoctum]

Wow been looking around at the prices of some of these things. I see what you guys mean. 
 
Thinking about it a bit more -- I'd be willing to pay up to $2.5-3K. Where does that put me options-wise?
 
I'm in a good situation atm in that I have some money saved, a decent job and very low costs (no family and I'm in dirt cheap South Carolina ATM), but at some point I do want to... you know -- finish school and all that . But there are very few things I care about more than music.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Wow been looking around at the prices of some of these things. I see what you guys mean. 

Thinking about it a bit more -- I'd be willing to pay up to $2.5-3K. Where does that put me options-wise?

I'm in a good situation atm in that I have some money saved, a decent job and very low costs (no family and I'm in dirt cheap South Carolina ATM), but at some point I do want to... you know -- finish school and all that . But there are very few things I care about more than music.

For that price Blue Circle Audio makes u a custom headphone amp specifically built and designed for ur he6...a fellow headfi'er already did that for his HE6 after not being able to find an amp (he tried many he told me!) good enough for his HE6 in that pricerange (up until 3000usd)... And now he is happy as a small kid with his first present

My BC PaG is more expensive...but i would say: want something special? give them a call/mail...mention my amp (as reference), the 'PaG', ur budget and see if they can make u something that will blow ur mind...u have nothing to loose...oh yeah...be prepared to wait as their waiting list is humongous!
If ur interested u can read my little review (see under this post) to give u an idea...oops..now i think of it..i have to do an update..

Have fun searching for ur new amp...its a fun voyage

And prepoman is right...the AVARAGE speaker amp is always better then the AVARAGE headphone amp..but...why would u want 'avarage' for such a special headphone if ur have saved some money to spend????

As justintime is saying for like ever: its not about raw power that matters for the he6 (or any other demanding phone).. Its the quality of those first few watts thats important..and a HUMONGOUS QUALITY powersupply to provide with the reserves needed etc etc.

 

[shayson1357]

you need speaker amps to drive speakers(he-6) and not headphone amps.... hifimanrookie... your amp doesn't count as a headphone amp anymore 

 
I also second hifimanrookie's suggestion.... normal headphone amps in that price range don't take the he-6 in mind.... but you CAN go custom like he did(albeit on a more limited budget) and thus focus all aspects of the amp's building cost towards one purpose.

 

[hifimanrookie]

you need speaker amps to drive speakers(he-6) and not headphone amps.... hifimanrookie... your amp doesn't count as a headphone amp anymore   

I also second hifimanrookie's suggestion.... normal headphone amps in that price range don't take the he-6 in mind.... but you CAN go custom like he did(albeit on a more limited budget) and thus focus all aspects of the amp's building cost towards one purpose.

Ur right my dear friend....my amp is based on their NSL speaker amp...so seeing what they put in my amp u can say its a mini speaker amp, modded to be a headphone amp
but as i said...another fellow headfi'er got himself a more affordable (it was just a bit under 3000usd i understand) custom for his beloved HE6...
He posted this on the thread of my PaG review..so check him out if ur interested...his is ..loosely based on my PaG (he contacted them with my amp as reference..on my suggestion after a few pm's) and now he is a happy man..owning something no one else has...his amp is named uniquely also and no one else has the same amp as he has..now that counts for something also right?

For the record..this is just an alternative...am sure they are more well built amps (speaker or headphone wise) that can do the HE6 justice...but if ur on a budget...forget the headphone amp then...thats the hard truth. Imho

 

[preproman]

  Wow been looking around at the prices of some of these things. I see what you guys mean. 
 
Thinking about it a bit more -- I'd be willing to pay up to $2.5-3K. Where does that put me options-wise?
 
I'm in a good situation atm in that I have some money saved, a decent job and very low costs (no family and I'm in dirt cheap South Carolina ATM), but at some point I do want to... you know -- finish school and all that . But there are very few things I care about more than music.

How you feel about buying used?  Depending upon where you live AudioGon can be a great source. 
 
When looking for speaker amp be aware you will also need a way to control your volume.  
 
http://app.audiogon.com/listings?filter_category_id%5B%5D=49&items_per_page=50&listing_types_auctions=1&listing_types_classifieds=1&location_filter_radius=25&max_condition=11&min_condition=1&no_listing_types_auctions=false&no_listing_types_classifieds=false&order_by=current_price+ASC&price_range=0&show_media=false
 
There is also integrated amps that come with a volume control:
 
http://app.audiogon.com/listings?page=1&no_listing_types_auctions=false&no_listing_types_classifieds=false&items_per_page=50&order_by=current_price%20ASC&location_filter_radius=25&filter_category_id[]=28&min_condition=1&max_condition=11&listing_types_auctions=1&listing_types_classifieds=1
 
I was very interested in this one, before I decided to go with the Pass Lab amp.
 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISV237

 

[Justin_Time]

   
The Viva Egoista is around 10K, the WA234 around 15K. Those are the top of the top for headphone amps, sitting with the other heavyweights like the Apex Pinnacle and other pieces of gear I will never own

 
The 'relatively' inexpensive WA5 drives the HE6 just fine from the K1K output. Good tubes plus amp is getting north of 6K - that's a lot of amp just to drive the HE6.

Clarification:  the Apex Pinnacle can drive the HE-6 but is still under-powered for these cans.  Not an optimal pairing.

 

[Justin_Time]

  Alright well I'll look into getting the Ragnarok from Schiit -- looks like it's 2-3 weeks before shipping out ATM unfortunately.
 
I'm already of course googling like mad --- but if anyone can offer their input on how Ragnarok/HE-6 sounds with metal and hard rock that'd be awesome. I've been posting in the "ultimate heapdhones for metal" thread and HE-6 is getting lots of praise, but also a few people seemed unsure Rag was a good choice.
 
ATM I am auditioning a LCD-2 with Lyr and my impressions are that it's just a bit too dark and lacks the bite that distorted guitar needs to sound good. At the same time, I am wary of ending up with something super bright as I've had some bad experiences with that (I absolutely loathe a thin/tinny sound)
 
I'm just posting in both threads as I'm not sure how much crossover there is.
 
Other thread for those curious:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution/

If I were in your place, I would proceed slowly and carefully.  Read as much relevant posts as you can and most important of all, listen to some of the recommended systems to get an actual experience.  There are places in North Carolina that sell very nice amps that you could listen to.
 
From my experience--I usually do not recommend anything that I have not owned for at least several months--you have many nice choices:
 
Headphone amps that can (easily) drive the HE-6:  HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 ($3,000 new); Bakoon HPA-21 ($3,000 new); Apex Peak/Volcano ($2,200 new); Woo WA5 ($4,500-$6,500 new depending on parts and tubes).  If you buy them second-hand, the savings are substantial.
Update:  the Ray Samuels Dark Star and Hifiman's own EF-6 amps can also drive the HE-6 easily.
 
Good-sounding Speaker Amps that can drive the HE-6:  First Watt M2 and J2 ($2,500-$3,500); Pass Aleph 3 ($1,200 used and restored); Krell KAV 300i or 400xi (integrated amps with volume control; $900-$1,400 used); Conrad-Johnson MV75 (tube; $1,200-$1,500 used); BAT VK75SE (tube; $2,000-$3,000 used); Sophia Electric Baby Amplifier (tube; $1,000 new).  Harmon Kardon HK770 or HK870 ($100-$200 used + $500 restored and upgraded).
 
You will need an adaptor with these speaker amps (from Hifiman or other places), especially with tube amps (about 8-10 ohms in parallel and 15-30 ohms in series) to protect the tube amps against unstable load and the HE-6  against too much power.  You also need a DAC with volume adjustment (not necessary with integrated amps).
 
If I were you, I would get the Woo WA5 or the GS-X Mk2 that will also sound great with just about any other cans--and you will buy other cans if you keep reading these posts--and forget about the headaches with speaker amps, unless of course you also want an amp for your speakers.  

 

[wuwhere]

With tube speaker amps, unless you know how to manually bias the tubes, get one with auto-bias. Also, I would stick with western made tubes like 6550, EL34, etc... These tubes are also made by Chinese and Russian tube manufacturers. The BAT VK75SE uses the Russian designed and made output tube 6C33. I would not buy any tube amp that only uses Russian designed tubes, just my opinion.

 

[TonyNewman]

  Clarification:  the Apex Pinnacle can drive the HE-6 but is still under-powered for these cans.  Not an optimal pairing.

 
I wasn't suggesting the Apex Pinnacle can drive the HE6 - I was saying it is a top tier headphone amp (and it should be for the whopping 10K price).
 
It cannot drive the HE6 well - refer to Tyll's flagship headphone tests on Inner Fidelity where the HE6 driven by the Pinnacle gets a kicking. Totally wrong amp for any sort of comparison worth reading regarding the HE6.
 
All he had to do was use a WA5 with decent tubes and it would have given the other contenders a run for their money. Does Tyll have an anti-Woo bias? I can't recall a single review of any Woo amp on the Inner Fidelity website. That seems strange to me.
 
Just did a search on 'Woo' at inner fidelity - only product review I could find was for the Wee electrostatic energizer device - not a single amp review from the Woo line. Odd.

 

[TonyNewman]

Headphone amps that can (easily) drive the HE-6:  HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 ($3,000 new); Bakoon HPA-21 ($3,000 new); Apex Peak/Volcano ($2,200 new); Woo WA5 ($4,500-$6,500 new depending on parts and tubes).  If you buy them second-hand, the savings are substantial. Update:  the Ray Samuels Dark Star and Hifiman's own EF-6 amps can also drive the HE-6 easily.

 
I would be careful about pairing the HE6 with the GS-X Mk2 or the EF-6.
 
The EF-6 I have demo'ed and it is not a good sounding amp IMHO. Not something I would ever like to own. It can make music on the HE6 and drive it loud, but it does not have the texture and dynamics that a very well driven HE6 will have (like on my WA5).
 
The GS-X Mk2 I have never heard or seen - however it's specs are borderline at best for the HE6. Below is a quote from the Part-Time-Audiophile review of the GS-X Mk2:
 
"Listening to Patricia Barber’s “Ode to Billie Joe” from her Café Blue album sounded flat on the HE6. The detail of the acoustic bass was present and detailed. There was some noticeable sibilance in her vocal. The acoustic bass was defined but the recording never came to life. In comparison playing the same track on the Woo WA5 really showed the shortcoming of the HE6 on the GSX Mk2. The soundstage got much wider and deeper. The vocal was less sibilant and the instruments had much more headroom. The WA5 was up to the task while the Mk2 fell short in the necessary power needed to drive the HE6 properly."
 
LINK
 
The Bakoon and Apex Peak/Volcano I know nothing about - I would suggest caution and get some feedback from folks that have driven a HE6 from them (and preferably can compare the results to speaker taps and/or WA5).
 
The Dark Star has bags of power - the question then becomes one of taste / musicality - do you like the sound of the amp? This is where the WA5 shines with the HE6 - it has great musicality and you can tube roll to get the sound you prefer (providing your wallet can sustain the damage - nice 300Bs are not cheap).

 

[Justin_Time]

I would be careful about pairing the HE6 with the GS-X Mk2 or the EF-6.

The EF-6 I have demo'ed and it is not a good sounding amp IMHO. Not something I would ever like to own. It can make music on the HE6 and drive it loud, but it does not have the texture and dynamics that a very well driven HE6 will have (like on my WA5).

The GS-X Mk2 I have never heard or seen - however it's specs are borderline at best for the HE6. Below is a quote from the Part-Time-Audiophile review of the GS-X Mk2:

"Listening to Patricia Barber’s “Ode to Billie Joe” from her Café Blue album sounded flat on the HE6. The detail of the acoustic bass was present and detailed. There was some noticeable sibilance in her vocal. The acoustic bass was defined but the recording never came to life. In comparison playing the same track on the Woo WA5 really showed the shortcoming of the HE6 on the GSX Mk2. The soundstage got much wider and deeper. The vocal was less sibilant and the instruments had much more headroom. The WA5 was up to the task while the Mk2 fell short in the necessary power needed to drive the HE6 properly."

LINK

The Bakoon and Apex Peak/Volcano I know nothing about - I would suggest caution and get some feedback from folks that have driven a HE6 from them (and preferably can compare the results to speaker taps and/or WA5).

The Dark Star has bags of power - the question then becomes one of taste / musicality - do you like the sound of the amp? This is where the WA5 shines with the HE6 - it has great musicality and you can tube roll to get the sound you prefer (providing your wallet can sustain the damage - nice 300Bs are not cheap).

Sorry about the comments on the Pinnacle. I thought you were recommending it for the HE-6. Actually the reviewer preferred the sound of the HE-500 to that of the HE-6 with the Pinnacle for obvious reason: the Pinnacle could not drive the HE-6 properly but I do not think that the reviewer ever explicity acknowledged that fact, which steered many people away from the HE-6.

I own every single amp that I mentioned and have used them with the HE-6. I can assure you they can all drive the HE-6 just fine, and this includes the GS-X Mk2, which can drive the HE-6 at the high-gain setting. I never had to turn the volume up beyond 2 PM. However, if your DAC output does not have sufficient gain, then you may have a problem.

I did not make a judgement or real recommendation as to the sonic signature of various amps with the HE-6 as I believe this is a matter of taste. I had many listening sessions with friends at my place and some of them love the sound of the Dark Star and EF-6 with the HE-6. I myself could not stand it and much prefers to pair the HE-6 with the Woo WA5. I love this sound, which some of my friends detested, finding it lacking in attack/articulation (too slow) and way too colored/euphonic in the midrange. That was why I included in the amp list everything I own that could drive the HE -6, leaving it up to the readers to select the one they like through actual listening, which I strongly recommended. Buying an amp for the HE-6, or any high-end headphones based on someone else's advice, no matter how wise, is a very risky business that should not be considered unless there is no other choice.

By the way, when the EF-6 was used with Sophia Electric Magik Box ($2,500-ouch!) the sound improvement with the HE-6 was amazing. This combo outperforms the Woo WA5 in bass slam, micro details and macrodynamics, surrendering to the Woo only in sweetness in the midrange. For a combined retail cost of about $4,000 (compared to about $6,500 for my Woo WA5 with upgraded parts and tubes), that is quite impressive.