[zach915m]

In a quick search for ZMF's since the start of this week - there's 5 ZMF's, 8 audeze's and 8 hifiman's that have been listed, as well as a WTB ZMF ad looking for a specific model. The original question to this thread was basically pertaining to if there was some kind of "thing" up with ZMF's. I think this is more in relation to the fact that was have grown as a company and been around for a decent while now, than anything else.

Back when I was making the headphones by myself - or with one or two other people, I remember a guy said to me, "I never see your headphones for sale! They must be really good" This was partly the case because we were probably making like 5-10 a month total, not because they were better than other companies with a greater capacity.

I'm flattered that our brand in one form or another has been around since 2011, and with the dynamic headphones since 2016. The fact that we're talked among other giants of the industry like the above mentioned brands is crazy to me. Wow!

Too many models, too many pads, woods, yokes, and other stuff. Too confusing or off-putting to the uninitiated. And, for members of the ZMF sect, too much constant temptation to shift this or that in pursuit of nirvana. And, with so much this or that in the brand, there's always a lot of churn and turnover.

Yes we have a modular product and cater to the needs of our customers which does create a number of pads and options. Our brand is fairly simple though - and we don't come out with 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 versions of the same headphone over and over, and we also don't have an "upgrade" system where you "pay for better." Our headphones are built as a collection, and if the wood doesn't matter to you or you don't want to mess with pads you can just buy the stock model with the stock pads like any other brand.

The fact that there is other stuff to get involved with if you so choose is just because I, like many of our customers love to be able to suit a headphone to a personal subjective taste, moment, genre or gear without having to sell it because the chain changed or one's listening habits changed, and we provide the customer service to support this however the owner wants to be involved.

If you're after headphones that are "one and done" without those modular options, there are certainly many awesome brands out there, but "too many" for some is "a fun journey" for others. So no need to make finite statements because some people enjoy stuff that you don't and vice versa, and it's all cool!

 

[jonathan c]

In a quick search for ZMF's since the start of this week - there's 5 ZMF's, 8 audeze's and 8 hifiman's that have been listed, as well as a WTB ZMF ad looking for a specific model. The original question to this thread was basically pertaining to if there was some kind of "thing" up with ZMF's. I think this is more in relation to the fact that was have grown as a company and been around for a decent while now, than anything else.

Back when I was making the headphone by myself - or with one or two other people, I remember a guy said to me, "I never see your headphones for sale! They must be really good" This was partly the case because we were probably making like 5-10 a month total, not because they were better than other companies with a greater capacity.

I'm flattered that our brand in one form or another has been around since 2011, and with the dynamic headphones since 2016. The fact that we're talked among other giants of the industry like the above mentioned brands is crazy to me. Wow!



Yes we have a modular product and cater to the needs of our customers which does create a number of pads and options. Our brand is fairly simple though - and we don't come out with 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 versions of the same headphone over and over, and we also don't have an "upgrade" system where you "pay for better." Our headphones are built as a collection, and if the wood doesn't matter to you or you don't want to mess with pads you can just buy the stock model with the stock pads like any other brand.

The fact that there is other stuff to get involved with if you so choose is just because I, like many of our customers love to be able to suit a headphone to a personal subjective taste, moment, genre or gear without having to sell it because the chain changed or one's listening habits changed, and we provide the customer service to support this however the owner wants to be involved.

If you're after headphones that are "one and done" without those modular options, there are certainly many awesome brands out there, but "too many" for some is "a fun journey" for others.** So no need to make finite statements because some people enjoy stuff that you don't and vice versa, and it's all cool!

** Don’t overlook the choice of not using ‘those modular options’. Some ZMF owners (OK…me) are delighted with the mesh / pads that come with the respective headphone.

 

[bagwell359]

Not an owner, a somewhat impressed outsider. If you look at the "stodgy" outfits - like Senn and Audeze - the speed of changing the top models was glacial. They are picking it up lately - esp. Audeze. Then HFM went from a few to a bunch of lines, with v2, SE, etc. attached to the updates every say 18 months.

Lots of lines and changes has got to make business sense for customers that are dedicated. But for the non initiated, yeah, its intimidating. If I would buy one, it would be used, from someone I know, after 25+ hrs of listening on my gear, because I'm not sure what zebra wood, or different shapes of the rear screens might do the sound from previous models. But there is a danger of fatigue setting in - and being upset by having your expensive new can be semi obsolete in months. Hence, like I said, I would buy used to avoid that. Eventually the used prices will go down as a % of new cost due to more supply than demand.

As a very long time audio hobbyist, seller, modifier, builder the explosion of headphones equipment going back to 2010 and since is quite similar to the 1975-1985 period for room speaker set-ups. ZMF is certainly one of the handful of drivers to this growth, and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

I have never heard of QC issues with ZMF, and if there were, it seems they would be addressed yesterday.

BTW, throwing shade on these guys with no data is beyond the pale.

 

[Shamburg]

Yes we have a modular product and cater to the needs of our customers which does create a number of pads and options. Our brand is fairly simple though - and we don't come out with 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 versions of the same headphone over and over, and we also don't have an "upgrade" system where you "pay for better." Our headphones are built as a collection, and if the wood doesn't matter to you or you don't want to mess with pads you can just buy the stock model with the stock pads like any other brand.

The fact that there is other stuff to get involved with if you so choose is just because I, like many of our customers love to be able to suit a headphone to a personal subjective taste, moment, genre or gear without having to sell it because the chain changed or one's listening habits changed, and we provide the customer service to support this however the owner wants to be involved.

If you're after headphones that are "one and done" without those modular options, there are certainly many awesome brands out there, but "too many" for some is "a fun journey" for others. So no need to make finite statements because some people enjoy stuff that you don't and vice versa, and it's all cool!

Zach, not a destination but a "journey," as you say. That constant journey seems to at least partly account for the constant ZMF buying, selling, upgrading, downgrading, and endless (but fun) contemplation of choices.

Nothing at all wrong with this. Most of us behave this way not just with head-fi but with other stuff (i.e. guitars for me). The joy of the hunt. I'm constantly in that mode.

I've always wanted to own a ZMF but it takes some effort to assess all the models and variables to suit my needs. Your website is a terrific tool. But, I'm still a bit perplexed!

Keep up your amazing artisanal work!

 

[zach915m]

Zach, not a destination but a "journey," as you say. That constant journey seems to at least partly account for the constant ZMF buying, selling, upgrading, downgrading, and endless (but fun) contemplation of choices.

Nothing at all wrong with this. Most of us behave this way not just with head-fi but with other stuff (i.e. guitars for me). The joy of the hunt. I'm constantly in that mode.

I've always wanted to own a ZMF but it takes some effort to assess all the models and variables to suit my needs. Your website is a terrific tool. But, I'm still a bit perplexed!

Keep up your amazing artisanal work!

If you ever are interested you can absolutely email us and let us know which headphones you've liked and which you didn't and we will pretty easily be able to tell you what ZMF would be up your alley.

Or we'd be happy to help you at a Canjam! We are going to be at a lot of them this year!

 

[Shamburg]

If you ever are interested you can absolutely email us and let us know which headphones you've liked and which you didn't and we will pretty easily be able to tell you what ZMF would be up your alley.

Or we'd be happy to help you at a Canjam! We are going to be at a lot of them this year!

Thank you, Zach. Hope to see you at CanJam NYC.

 

[DAPpower]

I'm pretty sure people list their ZMFs to buy other ZMFs, I knew a few people who sold their non LTD Verite Closed just to buy a more luxurious version of the Verite Closed.

The Verite Closed till this day seems to be a stable in any collection.

The whole ZMF line up is unique in that every model has something to offer you, they all have their own tuning that is unique to the model.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

We desperately need this

 

[JerseyD]

I suspect one reason people sell their ZMFs is because we have to buy them blind (or deaf, as the case may be). Not sold in stores; can't audition them outside of a CanJam. One has to read all the forums and website descriptions and reviews to try and determine which model will be the best sound-fit. While Zach says you can call and talk about it so they can recommend one, most people won't do that. I'm a good example. Read everything and thought, "I bet the Atrium is the right one for me." However, I wasn't willing to spend $2500 to find out (even though I now realize that if i didn't like them, it would be easy to sell them at not much of a loss - and consider it a rental fee).

So I bought an Auteur Classic after reading it referred to as an "Atrium Junior." So far, I love them...LOVE them...but...I am planning to trek to CanJam Dallas in November and listen to the Atrium. If it blows me away, I'll buy them. Then, if I feel like I don't need both (or they sound too similar to me), I'll be selling one of them here... and some dude will post, "Hey there must be something wrong with all those ZMFs for sale..."

 

[tyk103]

If it blows me away, I'll buy them.

Pepper your wallet.

 

[Monsterzero]

My point was that if you demo 1 pair zmf and then you buy the same model from zmf, my understanding is that there is no assurance that both pairs will sound the same.

There would be only two instances where any given ZMF would sound different from one another of the same model:

1- If both were using different pads. The plethora of ZMF pads each can have a profound influence on what any given ZMF sounds like. Own 5 different pads for your Atrium is like owning 5 different headphones, the differences can be mind blowing.

2- If both of the same model were built using different wood types. Gnerally speaking, the softer woods offer a longer decay and a more romantic sound, whereas the harder woods tend to be a bit snappier sounding, with less decay and slightly stronger impact.
The stabilized and poured resin versions sound similar to the harder woods.

All that being said, I have had the opportunity to have two VOs of different wood builds at my home for an extended time and did extensive A/Bing. The differences were there but they werent nearly as dramtic as the differences being heard when swapping pads.

Other than that, the differences between driver consistency from one pair to another is non-existent.

For me I acquired a whole system specifically to listen to ZMF headphones and just looking at the desk space required as well as the constant feeling of "If I do/buy X I can get more out of these!" made me take another look at what I was doing and move to lower power-requirement headphones.

I think most folks in this hobby start off with a Schiit stack and low impedance/high sensitivity headphone, which are the most common headphone available these days. That same stack can carry you through many of today's TOTL headphones.

ZMFs on the other hand are high impedance and high sensitivity ( for the most part) and while ZMFs are not necessarily hard to drive per se, they do sound their best IMO on a good tube amp, with NOS tubes, all of which can be a sizeable investment. That's not to say that ZMFs cannot sound good on a modest solid state amp. I recently picked up a Nitsch/Schiit Piety and that little amp rocks the hell out of all of my ZMFs.

There are a few headphones out there, such as the HE6, Susvara, Abyss 1266 etc... that do require a system to be built around them for astronomical power requirements, ZMFs are different. They have nowhere near the power needs of those other beasts, but ZMFs do require a little thought and research to get your system optimized for them to sound their best, and clearly that can be a little intimidating to some, especially those who have an adversion to tubes/valves.

 

[chesebert]

There would be only two instances where any given ZMF would sound different from one another of the same model:

1- If both were using different pads. The plethora of ZMF pads each can have a profound influence on what any given ZMF sounds like. Own 5 different pads for your Atrium is like owning 5 different headphones, the differences can be mind blowing.

2- If both of the same model were built using different wood types. Gnerally speaking, the softer woods offer a longer decay and a more romantic sound, whereas the harder woods tend to be a bit snappier sounding, with less decay and slightly stronger impact.
The stabilized and poured resin versions sound similar to the harder woods.

All that being said, I have had the opportunity to have two VOs of different wood builds at my home for an extended time and did extensive A/Bing. The differences were there but they werent nearly as dramtic as the differences being heard when swapping pads.

Other than that, the differences between driver consistency from one pair to another is non-existent.


I think most folks in this hobby start off with a Schiit stack and low impedance/high sensitivity headphone, which are the most common headphone available these days. That same stack can carry you through many of today's TOTL headphones.

ZMFs on the other hand are high impedance and high sensitivity ( for the most part) and while ZMFs are not necessarily hard to drive per se, they do sound their best IMO on a good tube amp, with NOS tubes, all of which can be a sizeable investment. That's not to say that ZMFs cannot sound good on a modest solid state amp. I recently picked up a Nitsch/Schiit Piety and that little amp rocks the hell out of all of my ZMFs.

There are a few headphones out there, such as the HE6, Susvara, Abyss 1266 etc... that do require a system to be built around them for astronomical power requirements, ZMFs are different. They have nowhere near the power needs of those other beasts, but ZMFs do require a little thought and research to get your system optimized for them to sound their best, and clearly that can be a little intimidating to some, especially those who have an adversion to tubes/valves.

That’s incredibly helpful. Not sure why no one answered this all of last year. Now if I demo ZMF I will note the wood type and can buy based on soft vs hard/stabilized differences.

 

[FullBright1]

I suspect one reason people sell their ZMFs is because we have to buy them blind (or deaf, as the case may be).

People sell their headphones because they want to try something else.
This rush to get the next, is how this headphone obsession game works.
People ask me.. "what is your favorite set of headphones, as you've owned everything".

A.) My next SET is my favorite
B.) The one i haven't tried yet , is my Favorite.

The audiophile headphone game isn't actually about buying and keeping.....its about buying the next one to experience it.

Audiophile, this word, regarding what we do here, means...""" to listen through the new and different gear."""......to experience this......which has little to do with trying to keep the gear.
Its really all about making intimate contact with a new sonic experience.
We are looking for this contact HIGH....
Oh yeah..


How to determine what is the best set for you?
That's easy.
Its the set that you have bought more than once because you miss it.
Its the set that you sell and you know that you will buy them again, but for now, you want to try something NEW. with that money. $$
See, if you stay in this headphone obsession game for years, then you will eventually find that small selection that will be your favorites.
They does not make them the best sounding headphones.........it just makes them the best gear for you to hear.

Here is my little tropical Island set up.

1. ZMF Caldera, and im sure the closed version will be excellent also
2. Meze Elite
3. RaaL Ca-1a
4. DCA Expanse
5. Final Audio Pro D8000
6. Denon AH-D9200

Honorable mention would go to ........ in no particular order.........Abyss TC, Susvara, DCA Ether 2, Sennheiser 800S., Focal Utopia, all the HEK1000's and im sure there are one or 2 that didnt pop into my mind.

Yet, to my ear, i get more pleasure, regarding analytical listening and pure pleasure, from E-Stats., as compared to any of those.
However, i love all types of Headphones.
I could never be satisfied with just 4 or 5.

 

[CartrKellr]

It's gotta be for upgrading purposes. I wouldn't want to part ways with my ZMFs unless it was to afford a different pair. Some of the best looking/sounded HPs on the market.

 

[FullBright1]

It's gotta be for upgrading purposes.

What if you get a new set only because you want to try something new?
Did you ever try that one?
Ive tried it a couple hundred times, at least...
You should too.
Not to upgrade, specifically, but just because "the new one" is out..... or "i haven't heard that one yet".... and maybe its not an upgrade, and yet you want to HEAR IT.

For example..
Anyone who's been in the headphone game for a long time, will be led to the idea that "the Susvara is the end of the FR rainbow".
So, if Hifiman puts out a "Stealth Susvara V2" for $7000.00 USD, then everyone who can buy it, will.
ZMF and DCA and the people who run MEZE and Audeze, will get their order's in FIRST.
You can count on it....
And soon, ....ZMF is going to put out a closed Caldera. It wont be an upgrade, it will just be a new model, and it'll fly off the shelves and right to my Dac/Amps.
So, if Hifiman put out a Susvara JR, for $3500, and they should, then that's not an upgrade, thats a bargain., and so, everyone who will buy the Stealth Susvara will by the Jr Susvara, and not to upgrade, but to experience it's sound.

Welcome to : "Audiophile"...