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ATTICUS and EIKON, the new dynamic driver headphones from ZMF
Mar 14, 2017 at 3:12 AM Post #2,716 of 9,711
@ProfFalkin
 
Thank You !
 
It gives us another fun option for experimentation.
 
There are maybe 5 or so available ohmage types, and I'll have to decide on buying which 2 or 3 to spread a good range to use on various headphones.
 
Sorta like a fine tuning project.
 
Was numbly aware of doing this here with loudspeaker tweeters, yet it never dawned on me that this application can tweak headphones.
 
Looks like some new fun ahead, what a great hobby !
 
Thanks
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 2:10 PM Post #2,717 of 9,711
rollinhard843 said:
I was looking up info on the Garage1217 project polaris since i know it has a lot of options for a solid state amp. They use the terminology "output resistance" but i guess they mean the same thing.

You can adjust the output resistance to 3 different settings: 0.1ohm, 35ohm or 120ohm. If this is the same that people are discussing here, maybe this amp could do well with the atticus? It's not a bright amp, i actually bought it to use mostly with grados.
Click to expand...

 
I just found the mfr's page for this amp. Fascinating! I've never seen anything like this...the impedance matching is just one of several unusual characteristics of this design. And it's cheap!
 
I'll be prowling this mfr's other models. If I find one that's balanced and has this impedance matching, this may escalate to a red alert.
 
Thanks for mentioning this!
 
And BTW, "not a bright amp" is high praise in my book (I'm averse to elevated treble/upper midrange and components that produce it).
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 6:14 PM Post #2,719 of 9,711
rgs9200m said:
Any thoughts on whether these headphones will benefit from balanced operation? Thanks.
(Uh-oh, I hope this isn't a can o'worms question...)
Click to expand...


That's not really how it works. Headphones like these use very little power and don't have long cables (under 15 feet usually). Always use what your amplifier was created with in mind. A good example is the Audio-GD NFB28 and NFB29H. The 28 is best used with balanced connections, since it was designed for that, and the 29H is best used for single ended connections since that is what it was designed for. Use which ever connection is most direct through your gear.
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 6:40 PM Post #2,721 of 9,711
OK, thanks for that. There is chatter for example that the Sen HD6xxx phones sound better balanced FWIW. But my Z1R sounds spectacular single-ended. So I was never sure if some headphones sound better in balanced vs. SE operations (and I don't see this determined much from perusing the forums here).
I was just hoping if anyone had any subjective impressions concerning this from the Eikon (or Atticus).
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 6:46 PM Post #2,722 of 9,711
rgs9200m said:
  OK, thanks for that. There is chatter for example that the Sen HD6xxx phones sound better balanced FWIW. But my Z1R sounds spectacular single-ended. So I was never sure if some headphones sound better in balanced vs. SE operations (and I don't see this determined much from perusing the forums here).
I was just hoping if anyone had any subjective impressions concerning this from the Eikon (or Atticus).
Click to expand...

People obsess over these points way too much. If you have a balanced amp that was designed to be used balanced, but provides an SE output for convenience, it will always sound better balanced, or at the very least will have more power/gain. People get confused because of what they're hearing and seeing, but it's not just because they're using a balanced cable that it sounds better, it's because of how the amp they're listening to was designed. Chord, Wells Audio, and Benchmark all believe that a single ended (or more properly stated, an unbalanced) design will actually give better performance when implemented properly.
 
I think another factor that puffs up the whole debate is that until a few years ago there really weren't a lot of high powered single ended headphone amps, you pretty much HAD to go to pro level gear or seriously over-designed audiophile gear with balanced connections to feed power hungry headphones. Now that there are so many amps on the market, the rule of thumb of balanced = better just doesn't apply anymore. At least that is how I have seen the market changing, others will see it different.
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 9:42 PM Post #2,726 of 9,711
sludgeogre said:
  People obsess over these points way too much. If you have a balanced amp that was designed to be used balanced, but provides an SE output for convenience, it will always sound better balanced, or at the very least will have more power/gain. People get confused because of what they're hearing and seeing, but it's not just because they're using a balanced cable that it sounds better, it's because of how the amp they're listening to was designed. Chord, Wells Audio, and Benchmark all believe that a single ended (or more properly stated, an unbalanced) design will actually give better performance when implemented properly.
 
I think another factor that puffs up the whole debate is that until a few years ago there really weren't a lot of high powered single ended headphone amps, you pretty much HAD to go to pro level gear or seriously over-designed audiophile gear with balanced connections to feed power hungry headphones. Now that there are so many amps on the market, the rule of thumb of balanced = better just doesn't apply anymore. At least that is how I have seen the market changing, others will see it different.
Click to expand...

 
Imho,
 
99% of the time tube amp always sounds better unbal, if you go bal and cancel out the even harmonics - there is no tube sound left.
Benefit of bal amp - the connectors are more rugged and will wear out slower
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 10:19 PM Post #2,727 of 9,711
I love the Atticus and Eikon on the Milo, which is SE only.
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 10:20 PM Post #2,728 of 9,711
Mar 14, 2017 at 10:50 PM Post #2,729 of 9,711
Love my Eikon+Milo.
 
Mar 14, 2017 at 10:54 PM Post #2,730 of 9,711
rollinhard843 said:
I was looking up info on the Garage1217 project polaris since i know it has a lot of options for a solid state amp. They use the terminology "output resistance" but i guess they mean the same thing.

You can adjust the output resistance to 3 different settings: 0.1ohm, 35ohm or 120ohm. If this is the same that people are discussing here, maybe this amp could do well with the atticus? It's not a bright amp, i actually bought it to use mostly with grados.
Click to expand...

 
Oh snap, I should pull out my Solstice and see how it does...
 
EDIT - Well I did some testing and it's clear that the higher output impedance really helped the headphone sound better.  More specifically:  at 0.1 ohm impedance, the mids were very recessed and the highs were rolled off.  At 68 ohm impedance, the mids were forward/balanced and clean and the highs were better (though it's still a warm headphone!).  At 31 ohms, as you might expect, it was in between, though still much better than the 0.1 ohm setting.
 
My conclusion is that these headphones are going to be amp dependent enough that it will make a notable difference.  I highly recommend getting something made for high impedance headphones.
 
PS - I killed my amp like an idiot.  It's been a long day and I thought the amp was off while I was swapping tubes.  It was most definitely not.  :frowning2:  Fortunately, I'm handy with a soldering iron and Garage1217 has great customer service.  I suspect it's salvageable.
 
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