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Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

post #1 of 2868
Thread Starter 
Looks like Cayin is coming out with a touchscreen DAP called the i5. All I've seen so far is this pic from @unknownguardian.



I'll update as I find out more. Perhaps @Andykong will take pity on us and join the conversation wink.gif


Thought I should add some additional info to the first post...

APRIL 23rd UPDATE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post

























To summarised, the main features of Cayin i5 is as follows:
  1. Fully customized Android 4.4, support WiFi, Bluetooth and DLNA
  2. Modest control interface via TFT 800x480 IPS Touch Panel, navigate through music library with click, drag and sweep.
  3. Proven audio design (similar to N5) with premium components: AKM4490 flagship DAC chipset, PGA2311 Volume control,,2 x LME49720 buffer Op-Am (LPF and Voltage amplification),2xBUF634 high current headphone amplifier, one for each channel.
  4. Low noise floor: 0. 005mV for line output, 0.01mV for headphone output
  5. 14mm slim design with high capacity 4800mAH battery, offline playback last for 11 hours, online playback via WiFi around 10 hours (depends on condition of WiFi connection)
  6. 5 digital filter, 10 bands EQ with multiple preset, support custom EQ.
  7. User can install third party applications through apk installation package or Google Play (probably not available in the initial version)
  8. Support online streaming app such as Tidal and Spotify (to be tested)
  9. First ever DAP with USB Type C offers compact and versatile function, facilitate charging, file management, USB digital and S/PDIF output (via optional cable) in one port
  10. Duplex USB digital connection, can used as USB-DAC when connect to a computer, or become a digital transport when connect to a DAC
  11. Support 2-channels DST encoded SACD-ISO and DSD (finally)
  12. Retail at ¥2998 (RMB) starting 28 May 2016, custom leather case will be available at ¥198 (RMB), international retail price to be determined.

MAY 24th UPDATE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post

Update on Cayin i5 DAP: Schedule and Design Revision

To transfer Cayin i5 DAP from R&D phase to production, we have proceed to procurement of material for mass production and started pilot production. Unfortunately we have identified new problems that have not surfaced in previous 6 rounds of prototyping: noise interference were detected when WiFi is connected. After cross-checking the prototype vs trail production samples exhaustively, we have traced the problem to two op-amp from TI. During the prototyping process, we used LME49720 (MA) in Low-pass filter and voltage amplification, unfortunately this op-amp has ceased production and we have used the revised model LME49720 (MAX) as replacement and turned out the LEM49720(MAX) is more sensitive to WiFi interfere.

While we have the option to proceed i5 as planned, and claimed that WiFi interference is inevitable, Cayin feels obliged to deliver a product that is fully functional on all primary features, and facilitation of streaming applications is a primary feature in our project plan. To remedial the situation, Cayin goes back to drawing board and improved the WiFi-related design from the ground up, and come out with the follow design revision:
  1. Structural design: modify the CNC framework and carbon fiber back panel so that the WiFi components will be covered by plastic sheet instead of carbon fiber/metal frame. This will enhance the WiFi connectivity of i5 without affecting the look and feel of the façade design. The revised design will reduce the internal interference caused by reflection and minimize channel effect. The diagram below illustrates the back panel before and after the revision.

  2. Analogue Circuit: the LME47920 will be replaced by AD712 (Low pass Filter) and OPA1652 (Voltage amplification), we believe this will further enhance the audio performance and immunity to interference. The revised audio circuit is as follows:


  3. PCB layour: while we change the components, we have taken the chance to further enhance the system performance by separating the ground circuit completely. The new PCB is clean and quiet now.

All actions comes with a cost, and in this case Cayin has scrapped 500 sets of stuffed PCB, throw away /remodeled all the chassis from pilot production and developed new tooling for the revised structural design. Our R&D and Production team has been working round the clock to get back on track since the press conference in Bejing, and we are pleased to announced that the Cayin i5 will be available at Mainland China from 6 June 2016. Our plan to overseas markets remains unchanged and we expect to ship the Cayin i5 to Asia markets by late July 2016, and other areas at around 2 months after official launch in domestic market.

Cayin will keep everyone well informed in due course, and we promise to deliver a DAP that will make your music “Never Be The Same Again”.

MAY 26th GLAMOUR SHOTS
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambek View Post

Latest and hottest pics getting from the discussion group, can wait to share it here. biggrin.gif










Edited by nmatheis - 10/22/16 at 4:05pm
post #2 of 2868

Look forward to hearing more about it! :popcorn:

Cheers!:beerchug:

-HK sends

post #3 of 2868
Thread Starter 
A bit of back n forth from the N5 thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by twister6 View Post

@Andykong
- now, this looks GOOD!!!!!  Any close ups from the left side to see transport control?

Captured from zoom in of above shot, we got:




with a spec of:




I remember that Cayin follows # indexing to indicate which one considered to be the flagship and which one supposed to be a step below.  If i5 follows the N5 vs N6 numbering, I assume i5 is considered to be their first mid-fi Android DAP and we can still expect i6 as a flagship?  i5 spec looks great, and maybe i5 vs i6 explains why i5 holds back with a single uSD card, no optical mini Toslink or built in coax, and no 2.5mm balanced output?  I see HO output is 2.4V, that's 360mW @ 16ohm stereo.  And maybe there is a chance to squeeze in a dual uSD card reader, similar to DX80 and Opus#1?  I'm glad to see USB-C, meaning a faster charging.  Also, interesting to see Coax usb-c to 3.5mm spdif adapter, I guess no chance to implement 3.5mm HO with a built-in mini-toslink like AK120ii or Opus#1?

I think X7 and DP-X1 got some serious competition now, and how series will be determined by the pricing of i5 wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post

That was a nice photo, we are grateful for @unknownguardian visiting our booth and posting the picture of our product on the impression thread.

Alex has done a great Sherlock style investigation, and that saved a lot of explanation as I am kind of exhausted after the long traveling and intense 3 days with CanJam (my session started on Friday afternoon( biggrin.gif

There are issues that I can't respond to right now, we have to wait till end of April when the Android DAP is finally finalized, and I shall get back to the Cayin Community in full detail.

As stated in the product description we put up for i5 in CanJam, headphone output of i5 Engineering Sample is rated 180mW+180mW (@32ohm), on figure this is not too far away from the single ended output of N5. We have adopted a new Op-amp for the buffer stage before Headphone amplificaiton, and this can be considered as a small upgrade from N5 if you are familiar with the op-amps.

The selling price is yet to decided, for ball park figures, it will be around US$500, but please don't hold me for that as we are still pending for the final BOM.
post #4 of 2868

I was looking at this DAP at Canjam at the weekend. It looks fantastic.....I loved the dual voltmeters you can activate.....very cool! I really like Cayin's stuff. I have the N6 and although it looks like a pig's ear :wink_face:...it's one of the best sounding DAP's on the market IMHO. 

 

Stuart

post #5 of 2868
Thread Starter 
I love my N5 and can't wait to hear the i5!

Hopefully there'll be more news soon...
post #6 of 2868
Should have come earlier, I didn't receive the email alert when @nmatheis added me to the post when I am traveling, I think I better change my email link to gmail so that I can get alert even I am on the road.

The problem is, can't talk much on specification as they are subject to change, I can't talk about the price as I didn't have the final BOM, the price I quoted previously was one of the project objective at early stage but we know this is not necessarily the case after 12 months of tough development work. biggrin.gif

I can share something about the design concept of i5 thought. At the early stage of development, we want the i5 to be a music-orientated player, allow the user to enjoy music from as many music source as possible, anywhere and anytime. So accessibility was a big key word and operation that is identifiable by the general public is a major concern. Cayin believe the N series DAP has achieve a proper place in the audiophile user community, we want to expand horizontally to the general music lover who probably will not be attracted by N5 or N6.

I hope the i5 can serve the purpose, we are still working on it right now. As soon as the specification and price is firmed, I'll get back to the HeadFi Cayin community for more detail, I sure want to share the joy of my little baby with my friends and family over here. beerchug.gif
post #7 of 2868
I think that using android is the right way to go, what I see over the years is that some companies do not do well supporting/upgrading to new android versions. My question to you guys are:
1) are you going to encapsulate your proprietary code into modules, libraries, etc and release the rest to the android community?
2) are you consider to upgrade to ver 5+ or all the fixes and upgrades will target the current android version?
post #8 of 2868
Thread Starter 
Thanks for joining the discussion @Andykong!
beerchug.gif
post #9 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeusminos View Post

I think that using android is the right way to go, what I see over the years is that some companies do not do well supporting/upgrading to new android versions. My question to you guys are:
1) are you going to encapsulate your proprietary code into modules, libraries, etc and release the rest to the android community?
2) are you consider to upgrade to ver 5+ or all the fixes and upgrades will target the current android version?

That's unlikely for i5 because i5 is a deeply customized android, If you have followed the CanJam Impression thread, you'll come across the following:
Quote:
They (Cayin) have modified Android a lot so you will not have the traditional Android layout. You will be able to download music apps but that is it. They want the device to be a music player only
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802161/canjam-socal-2016-impressions-thread-march-19-20-2016/150#post_12437804
Quote:
3) All units with exception to Cayin, had clean android based software. All menus ,etc are standard Android experience. The Cayin created their own interface, looked fine and flowed very well even for a prototype
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802161/canjam-socal-2016-impressions-thread-march-19-20-2016/255#post_12441154

Please understand that i5 is a DAP that utilize the Android edges on UI and control, it is never mean to be a general android device, and upgrade to Lollipop or Marshmallow is not particularly meaningful. The native music player app is a specially developed app from the ground up to bypass all the Android audio features and default setting. If we upgrade the i5 Android to Lollipop, we basically need to rewrite the native music player app completely
post #10 of 2868
@Andykong thank you for your input. I fully aware of the heavy work that has to be done by a company if they want to upgrade to OS. Sometimes this is possible HW wise but still require considerable work on the SW side.
IMO Android is attractive since allow you to use music services like Spotify right out of the box, but sometimes this can open the door to some potential issues related to third-party apps.
post #11 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeusminos View Post

@Andykong thank you for your input. I fully aware of the heavy work that has to be done by a company if they want to upgrade to OS. Sometimes this is possible HW wise but still require considerable work on the SW side.
IMO Android is attractive since allow you to use music services like Spotify right out of the box, but sometimes this can open the door to some potential issues related to third-party apps.

Re-Engineer our product and rewrite our app in order to accommodate potential issues related to third-party apps?

I think Cayin i5 is not in a position to consider this issue at this moment, we are busy finishing our product for official launch, maybe we can discuss it after i5 is available on market and you have tried out the performance of third party app with the player because that is our biggest concern right now.
Edited by Andykong - 3/25/16 at 9:39pm
post #12 of 2868

What I trying to say is that as far as I know fiio X7 allow you to install 3rd party apps using their own app store. Not sure if that is an option on the Cayin i5 

post #13 of 2868
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeusminos View Post

What I trying to say is that as far as I know fiio X7 allow you to install 3rd party apps using their own app store. Not sure if that is an option on the Cayin i5 

Actually, X7 allows Play Store now. We'll have to wait to see how Cayin handles it...
post #14 of 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmatheis View Post

Actually, X7 allows Play Store now. We'll have to wait to see how Cayin handles it...

We haven't get to that part yet, we have plans to resolve the the third party applications, but until I have tested it in person, I won't be able to share the options (or the final decision), so please stay tune for that.
post #15 of 2868


Does the i5 have dual clocks so it can play PCM files at their native resolution?

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