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HIFIMAN Shangri-La: The New Electrostatic Headphones From HIFIMAN
Oct 13, 2016 at 11:25 AM Post #451 of 1,057
I have been looking at many tube amps in the last few months,
To learn various designs ,
And the amplifier is very nice design.
It appears the circuitry and components are far away from the tube area.

Yet I believe "Stax" type amps in general are less complex than normal tube amps which need output transformers or some DC protection.
Plus tubes are ideal for the higher voltage necessary.

So this amp, as absolutely modernly beautiful looking as it is (at least to me) should truly not be so high priced, from a DIY perspective...
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 12:05 PM Post #452 of 1,057
Ok, I just over the Senn HE1,
And from a DIY perspective,
It is a ***edit: "non-optimal".
At least Hifiman goes for purity with a nice DHT tube amp.

The HE-1 amp is a mix of inherently noisy separate digital stages, Sabre dacs, small tubes , and SS mosphet on the actual headphone.
So it is a total hybrid which guaranteed loss of soundstage depth, when your using tubes which inherently have high levels if low even order THD,
and instead your output is super clean less than .001THD

Although it is higher quality German engineering, it clearly is taking the modern young designer approach of transistor and low THD which to achieve is death to dimensionality which tubes, especially DHT tubes preserve.

So if they were same price, my bet is on this Shangri-La to revial more depth of space over the ugly HE-1 .
:p
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 12:20 PM Post #453 of 1,057
This new Hifiman amp is also a waste from a technical perspective, why someone would want to use 300B for an electrostatic amp? Is the absolute worst tube for that aplication, there is a reason of why BHSE, T2 or Megatron use EL34 tubes, just look at the maximum plate voltage of a 300b tube and compare to an EL34...
 
Assuming the headphones cost 10k (february Stereoexchange ad, now deleted), they're charging 40k for a sub-par amplifier (from a technical perspective)...why would someone want to pay 40k for a sub par product?
 
Also, Shangri-La looks like HE-1000 with another color...mmm not very promising assuming the 7k price difference.
If the new Hifiman HE-1000 V2 costed 2k, and looked like Shangri-La and not like a kangaroo...well, good product, but that's not the case.
Sonics apart, just look at Stax SR-009 build quality and compare, the Stax costs 3 times less, and made in Japan, not China.
 
The Sennheiser amp has mofsets on it and Sabre DAC that will probably be at the same level as a Mytek Brooklyn so very dissapointing too, but at least looks well built.
Mofsets are good for conventional amplifiers, but for an electrostatic amp? No way.
 
This makes some Stax setups look like a bargain.
007A costs 2k, the port mod costs a few dollars and 10 minutes, a KGSSHV Carbon CC costs 5.5k, and the new Holo Spring DAC and a Singxer SU-1 costs 2.8k. For a bit more than 10k you can have a setup that, from a technical perspective, should give this two a good run for the money...
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 12:55 PM Post #454 of 1,057
I must agree with everything you say...

Except that el34 is optimal from a voltage standpoint,
but nobody said it's the best sounding tube.
I have read that DHT are at the top.
Mosfets can be good but always a compromise to tube,
And a headphone with a buit in mosfet is like "amplified headphones" ..
Not convincing topology..
:frowning2:
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 1:01 PM Post #455 of 1,057
maxx134 said:
I must agree with everything you say...

Except that el34 is optimal from a voltage standpoint,
but nobody said it's the best sounding tube.
I have read that DHT are at the top.
Mosfets can be good but always a compromise to tube,
And a headphone with a buit in mosfet is like "amplified headphones" ..
Not convincing topology..
frown.gif
Click to expand...

 
Yes, but DHT tubes costs like 20 times more than EL34 :)
EL34 is a nice compromise between price/performance for an electrostatic amp.
Totally agree with you too.
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 1:15 PM Post #456 of 1,057
torofiestasol said:
....
..why would someone want to pay 40k for a sub par product?
...
Sonics apart, just look at Stax SR-009 build quality and compare, the Stax costs 3 times less, and made in Japan, not China.
...
This makes some Stax setups look like a bargain.
007A costs 2k, the port mod costs a few dollars and 10 minutes, a KGSSHV Carbon CC costs 5.5k, and the new Holo Spring DAC and a Singxer SU-1 costs 2.8k. For a bit more than 10k you can have a setup that, from a technical perspective, should give this two a good run for the money...
Click to expand...

I gotta say that is excellent advice for a stax setup.
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 1:42 PM Post #457 of 1,057
Heck, I've seen used SR009 for $2300. I'm glad HFM lowered HEX to 1300, but they really shouldn't be more than $999, and the HE1K not more than, as you say, $2K. I wouldn't pay more than $1700.
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 2:12 PM Post #458 of 1,057
torofiestasol said:
The Sennheiser amp has mofsets on it and Sabre DAC that will probably be at the same level as a Mytek Brooklyn so very dissapointing too, but at leas
Mofsets are good for conventional amplifiers, but for an electrostatic amp? No way.

...
Click to expand...


Sorry, what specifically is the issue with mosfets in electrostatic amplifiers? They are used in the kgsshv carbon, among others.
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 2:28 PM Post #459 of 1,057
The Orpheus sounds magnificent, regardless of how "lame" the amp design might seem...
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 3:27 PM Post #462 of 1,057
Basically copy-pasta from my RMAF post.

HIFIMAN was on my list because of the Shangri-La. I took the opportunity to listen to it when no one else was around it.
http://hifiman.com/shangri-la/index.html
$50,000 USD for the system, and it's only being sold as a system



The Shangri-La system as a whole has a pretty interesting design. The amplifier uses some custom-made 300B tubes, the exterior of the amp is glossy black, the volume knob has LED indicators around it to let you know what volume it's at, the power button is right next to the STAX plug outputs, and it has a 3.5 mm auxiliary input jack on the back. Aesthetically speaking, I like it as a piece of art, but I prefer function over form, and having the volume at the top of the "shelf" is really awkward.








The headphones themselves seems to have a very similar design to the HE1000: wood decals on the outside, metal grille on the outside of the earcups, and a similar-adjusting headband. The driver is sub-micron thickness and it's coated with nanoparticles that probably give it the ability to be electrically charged. It also uses a dust cover that has nanometer-sized holes for sound transmission and prevents dust from getting onto the drivers. If you don't know about electrostatic headphones, any specks of dust that get on the driver causes it to distort at that portion.






As for the sound, it's not my cup of tea. It seems to want to be the SR-009, but ends up being way too bright and doesn't have enough bass for my preferences. The Shangri-La amp has 2 outputs, so I did A/B tests with the SR-207. To my surprise, the 207 has more bass quantity, but the Shangri-La had better texture, similar to the SR-009. The 207's mids sounds shouty at times, but the Shangri-La sounded bright and strident. The 207 has a delicate treble, whereas the Shangri-La's seemed a bit grainier in comparison, similar to the 009 in my experience. For instrument separation and soundstage, the Shangri-La is way better. Like the HE1000, the Shangri-La seems to have a deeper soundstage than wide, and a sense of dynamics that the 207 just can't match. Like the 009, it sounds lightning quick and it easily picks up the most delicate textures of a recording.



Perhaps in future meets, I think HIFIMAN ought to use a better DAC source than their HM901s portable media player. I seriously think this is a limiting factor of the system, but given that it's probably their best DAC...eh, I dunno. It just seems wrong to me that a $50,000 full-sized system is being fed with a signal from a portable media player.



At the end of the day, given the price, I'd take the Sonoma Model One over the Shangri-La given that you have to buy both as a system. I haven't heard the Orpheuses before, so I can't tell you how they compare to those.
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 3:44 PM Post #464 of 1,057
Awesome impressions! Now I do really hope you get to hear the Orpheus so I can confirm with someone else who heard both systems :D
 
Oct 13, 2016 at 9:06 PM Post #465 of 1,057
miceblue said:
Basically copy-pasta from my RMAF post.

HIFIMAN was on my list because of the Shangri-La. I took the opportunity to listen to it when no one else was around it.
http://hifiman.com/shangri-la/index.html
$50,000 USD for the system, and it's only being sold as a system



The Shangri-La system as a whole has a pretty interesting design. The amplifier uses some custom-made 300B tubes, the exterior of the amp is glossy black, the volume knob has LED indicators around it to let you know what volume it's at, the power button is right next to the STAX plug outputs, and it has a 3.5 mm auxiliary input jack on the back. Aesthetically speaking, I like it as a piece of art, but I prefer function over form, and having the volume at the top of the "shelf" is really awkward.



The headphones themselves seems to have a very similar design to the HE1000: wood decals on the outside, metal grille on the outside of the earcups, and a similar-adjusting headband. The driver is sub-micron thickness and it's coated with nanoparticles that probably give it the ability to be electrically charged. It also uses a dust cover that has nanometer-sized holes for sound transmission and prevents dust from getting onto the drivers. If you don't know about electrostatic headphones, any specks of dust that get on the driver causes it to distort at that portion.


As for the sound, it's not my cup of tea. It seems to want to be the SR-009, but ends up being way too bright and doesn't have enough bass for my preferences. The Shangri-La amp has 2 outputs, so I did A/B tests with the SR-207. To my surprise, the 207 has more bass quantity, but the Shangri-La had better texture, similar to the SR-009. The 207's mids sounds shouty at times, but the Shangri-La sounded bright and strident. The 207 has a delicate treble, whereas the Shangri-La's seemed a bit grainier in comparison, similar to the 009 in my experience. For instrument separation and soundstage, the Shangri-La is way better. Like the HE1000, the Shangri-La seems to have a deeper soundstage than wide, and a sense of dynamics that the 207 just can't match. Like the 009, it sounds lightning quick and it easily picks up the most delicate textures of a recording.


Perhaps in future meets, I think HIFIMAN ought to use a better DAC source than their HM901s portable media player. I seriously think this is a limiting factor of the system, but given that it's probably their best DAC...eh, I dunno. It just seems wrong to me that a $50,000 full-sized system is being fed with a signal from a portable media player.


At the end of the day, given the price, I'd take the Sonoma Model One over the Shangri-La given that you have to buy both as a system. I haven't heard the Orpheuses before, so I can't tell you how they compare to those.
Click to expand...

 
It's hilarious that you comparing the 207 which is like $250-300 to the Shangri-La @ 10k
Even more hilarious that you prefer the Sonoma Setup which is more 10x cheaper complete setup solution @ $5k when you factor in the Shangri-La setup doesn't includes a DAC.
 
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