I remember reading that comment about the cash register in that Pink Floyd song a while ago and was able to detect the same effect on my AKGs and Hifiman's.  You can hear something in the background get introduced in addition to the cash register sound, its was an interesting obbservation.  I can see why you'd say it just brings those things forward, its more obvious on the HD800, but its still there if you listen for it on other headphones.

psalmanazar said:

  Beyer treble mountain of death

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Found it on Google:

Apparently, it's real: http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/72734910/Man-slides-500m-to-death-on-Treble-Cone

Re: opinions on the "detail monster" HD800: it's possible that there are anonymous opinionated folks on the internet who are wrong.

So I wrote one review of my stash of USB DAC/AMP, and stopped. Why? Because to my ears, the next two products I planned to review have significant gains (to my ears) when using a powered USB HUB. And I would rather give my grade based on that, and not the original sound straight from the USB port of my laptop. But I think this upgrade concept starts to irk people. Crazy idea that - clean power can improve sound. Thus do I:
 

1. Write the review where I include my grade of the product with and without the Wyrd?
2. Write the review where I say the product is poor, due to the poor performance of the USB on my 7-year old laptop?
3. Discard the review?

 
At this point, I think I am leaning towards the trash pile.
 
Perhaps I'll just write the review for myself, to collect the things I have heard and learned in the past year. But it seems less than helpful to publish given the general nature of the beast...

sheldaze said:

  So I wrote one review of my stash of USB DAC/AMP, and stopped. Why? Because to my ears, the next two products I planned to review have significant gains (to my ears) when using a powered USB HUB. And I would rather give my grade based on that, and not the original sound straight from the USB port of my laptop. But I think this upgrade concept starts to irk people. Crazy idea that - clean power can improve sound. Thus do I:
 

1. Write the review where I include my grade of the product with and without the Wyrd?
2. Write the review where I say the product is poor, due to the poor performance of the USB on my 7-year old laptop?
3. Discard the review?

 
At this point, I think I am leaning towards the trash pile.
 
Perhaps I'll just write the review for myself, to collect the things I have heard and learned in the past year. But it seems less than helpful to publish given the general nature of the beast...

Click to expand...

I would include both the Wyrd and the non-Wyrd performance of the product. For the grade, compare it to products that cost the same + the Wyrd. If it can't compete with products in a slightly higher price category (say the Element vs the Grace Design M9xx), then it must be docked. If it only performs similarly to products that cost the same or less but requires the Wyrd while other products don't, then the grade must be reduced as Wyrd-required product has reduced functionality.

Also the desktop vs portable use needs to be considered. If something already requires a wall wart, there is no need for it to require clean USB power, only a jitter free USB connection like all USB DACs. If it's actually portable (not just transportable), then of course that should be taken into consideration too as a legitimate design trade off but otherwise not.

sheldaze said:

   

1. Write the review where I include my grade of the product with and without the Wyrd?

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^^^^^^
This. Real world performance is enormously helpful. Also, the WYRD is a $99 solution, so it's an affordable fix, despite the lack of true portability. The observations on USB sources are important in themselves--they may help someone down the line.

psalmanazar said:

 
I would include both the Wyrd and the non-Wyrd performance of the product. For the grade, compare it to products that cost the same + the Wyrd. If it can't compete with products in a slightly higher price category (say the Element vs the Grace Design M9xx), then it must be docked. If it only performs similarly to products that cost the same or less but requires the Wyrd while other products don't, then the grade must be reduced as Wyrd-required product has reduced functionality.

Also the desktop vs portable use needs to be considered. If something already requires a wall wart, there is no need for it to require clean USB power, only a jitter free USB connection like all USB DACs. If it's actually portable (not just transportable), then of course that should be taken into consideration too as a legitimate design trade off but otherwise not.

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barry s said:

  ^^^^^^
This. Real world performance is enormously helpful. Also, the WYRD is a $99 solution, so it's an affordable fix, despite the lack of true portability. The observations on USB sources are important in themselves--they may help someone down the line.

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Duly noted! And thank you both for your inputs
I think I have a more reasonable line of thinking now

Very interesting regarding your reviews sheldaze. I don't think it's worth throwing out the baby with the bathwater, i think wyrd and non-wyrd scores would be very interesting, though it may lend more credence to usb "decrapifiers" than some people might be comfortable with. I definitely understand that quality bus power is important, i don't know that re-clocking the usb signal is as important, and i think your experience with the powered usb hub lends some credibility to that.

More notes on the HD800. I stand by my original statement, these aren't "detail monsters", other headphones make the same things in a recording audible. I think it's more appropriate to call them "separation monsters", their ability to separate the instruments in a piece of music is pretty amazing. They also really do sound as close to speakers in a room and not headphones as I have heard, their ability to fill that hole that most headphones leave in the center of an image is really good and very believable. I do miss some bass on them, but not as much as I thought, and I think that has to do with what you gain in the separation and imaging department. It almost sounds like listening to powered monitors at slightly farther than normal near field distance. The HE1000 also did this to a great degree and that really impressed me about it as well at this last meet. I am anxious to have another shot at trying that headphone and comparing it to the HD800 directly. I think I understand now why people find these cans really addictive to listen to, something that tells your brain that you're not just wearing headphones that is captivating on its own.

That said, it seems to me to be rather artificial, in that its creating this effect on music that wasn't recorded or mastered in a way that it would have that character on its own. Most instruments are mic'd directly and then mixed in as part of a track, with the mastering engineer placing the instrument in a virtual space with an effect that doesn't ultimately work very well to my ears because it still relies heavily on the placement of some speakers and your listening position to provide the soundstage. The HD800 is mimicking that effect in headphones, which is very neat, but ultimately not exactly true to the master in my mind.

gandhisfist said:

...That said, it seems to me to be rather artificial, in that its creating this effect on music that wasn't recorded or mastered in a way that it would have that character on its own. Most instruments are mic'd directly and then mixed in as part of a track, with the mastering engineer placing the instrument in a virtual space with an effect that doesn't ultimately work very well to my ears because it still relies heavily on the placement of some speakers and your listening position to provide the soundstage. The HD800 is mimicking that effect in headphones, which is very neat, but ultimately not exactly true to the master in my mind.

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 The HD800s are the weirdest headphones, because they change character, depending on the system and the state of the listener. Sometimes the HD800 sounds very balanced and accurate, but other times, the separation sounds completely unnatural and highly annoying. Every time I audition the HD800's, it's a surprise.

barry s said:

 The HD800s are the weirdest headphones, because they change character, depending on the system and the state of the listener. Sometimes the HD800 sounds very balanced and accurate, but other times, the separation sounds completely unnatural and highly annoying. Every time I audition the HD800's, it's a surprise.

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That's exactly the problem I had trying them at meets several times; sometimes they sounded fantastic, other times I was completely unimpressed. I don't think I would have been able to come to this conclusion for myself without extended listening and comparison, and I'm certainly glad I bought them, I really enjoy their unique presentation.

gandhisfist said:

That's exactly the problem I had trying them at meets several times; sometimes they sounded fantastic, other times I was completely unimpressed. I don't think I would have been able to come to this conclusion for myself without extended listening and comparison, and I'm certainly glad I bought them, I really enjoy their unique presentation.

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Late to the party but I've experienced the same phenomenon as well. I thought I was going crazy. Glad to read that I'm not the only one.

@yage Just read your review of the Ayre Codex, good read.  Wish you could have brought it to the meet, but glad you didn't miss the meet trying to bring it.  Think you could convince your friend to loan it to you for the next one (whenever that is)?

Somebody's Liquid Carbon has shipped.

barry s said:

  Somebody's Liquid Carbon has shipped.

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How's it sound at home?
Are you more impressed with the build quality, which I've read (and seen pictures online) is a step up from the demo unit?

sheldaze said:

How's it sound at home?
Are you more impressed with the build quality, which I've read (and seen pictures online) is a step up from the demo unit?

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Won't be here until Thursday and it still has your name on it. I figure you want it asap, considering how insanely good it is with the HE-1000--I know I would. We can figure out a pick-up for next weekend. I thought the unit we had at the meet was finished well, anything beyond that is gravy. I'm still deciding on if I need/want one and ordering will be open at least through the end of the year.