baldr said:

   
It was a very big Manhattan day today.
 
Until today, no one at Schiit had heard the Manhattan except for me, Ivana, and Dave. Since I initially considered the notion almost two years ago, there was little external validation of the concept other than a half assed undisclosed and concealed proto at the first Schiit Show. We have been working on the basic engine for the Manhattan, with the dominant effort of making it perfectly sonically transparent, since it involves quite a bit of processing.
 
Today, just to be sure, I brought it into Schiit for several new pairs of ears to audition, with no one knowing exactly to what they were listening. Out of this comes two significant conclusions:
1. The Manhattan is a huge upgrade for any music which ever lived in the real world or is based upon structured music theory; that would be pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc. For monotonic or arbitrary music such as many forms of techno or rap, zero to less so.
 
2. Every person who blindly heard it todayhas indicated a strong preference for the "Manhattan processed" output, even when using very high quality source material such as the Muddy Waters Folk Singer Mobile Fidelity Gain System recording.
 
3. The Manhattan Project DSP engine is successful as well as complete. Well done, Ivana!!
 
Dr. Ivana will make her Schiit public debut at Canjam LA.
 
 

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First of all, thanks, Mike, for your very welcome update. What you said about Manhattan actually working for music "based upon structured music theory", while being negligible for the rest of it, made me feel excited, because this is what I thought Manhattan would be all about.
I think no one (I mean, perhaps not even in the labs) has ever achieved what you guys have.  So congratulations for what appears as a truly legendary milestone!
What I didn't expect was Manhattan's impact on modern music like pop, rock, jazz, which was conceived with instruments tuned the 'modern' way.
So, please let me ask you this question: what about human voices?  Do they still sound real?  I've got no doubts about the quality of your DSP processing: I've no fear your implementation isn't going to be absolutely transparent (and your reference to MFSL's Muddy Waters is testament to that). Just wondering how a singer's voice can be 'autotuned' in order to go along with the rest of the music playing, yet keeping its naturalness, its timbre and character.  Eagerly waiting to hear this marvel!
Also, and similar to the above question, what about (at least analog) synthesizers?  I do listen a lot to prog music (70's bands like Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis and the like), so I'd be curious as to the results with Manhattan in the chain, in this case.  But I assume Manhattan's rendering can be toggled with some switch, so one can always choose how he/she wants to listen to his/her music.
Finally, for your public debut at Canjam LA, do you plan to have some Manhattan 'box' or will you still be doing the DSP maths on a PC for that event?
 
Thanks for your update and your (possible) reply!

baldr said:

   
It was a very big Manhattan day today.
 
Until today, no one at Schiit had heard the Manhattan except for me, Ivana, and Dave. Since I initially considered the notion almost two years ago, there was little external validation of the concept other than a half assed undisclosed and concealed proto at the first Schiit Show. We have been working on the basic engine for the Manhattan, with the dominant effort of making it perfectly sonically transparent, since it involves quite a bit of processing.
 
Today, just to be sure, I brought it into Schiit for several new pairs of ears to audition, with no one knowing exactly to what they were listening. Out of this comes two significant conclusions:
1. The Manhattan is a huge upgrade for any music which ever lived in the real world or is based upon structured music theory; that would be pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc. For monotonic or arbitrary music such as many forms of techno or rap, zero to less so.
 
2. Every person who blindly heard it todayhas indicated a strong preference for the "Manhattan processed" output, even when using very high quality source material such as the Muddy Waters Folk Singer Mobile Fidelity Gain System recording.
 
3. The Manhattan Project DSP engine is successful as well as complete. Well done, Ivana!!
 
Dr. Ivana will make her Schiit public debut at Canjam LA.
 
 

Click to expand...

 
Amongst my speakers are active monitors that have analog XLR inputs, but use DSP crossovers.
 
Is there anything about that process which would "undo" the Manhattan magic?
 
I would assume not if Manhattan is making adjustments in the frequency/phase domains, but one never knows...

@Mike "Finally, for your public debut at Canjam LA, do you plan to have some Manhattan 'box' or will you still be doing the DSP maths on a PC for that event?"
 
My guess is Schiit is looking for a Fall introduction.   Even if it were in the PC for the April Canjam LA, would that preclude a September role out?   

Exciting news about the Manhattan and I am Glad there is no file folding Nonsense Going on. I am curious if this will be something that you have to switch on/off or bypass based on the type of music? I ask because I will go from Jazz, Blues, Country etc. to Rap and Electronic  and almost anything in the middle. This may have been addressed in the past and I just do not remember. Does the Manhattan project live in the Digital domain /Pre Dac in the Chain or is it post DAC?    Based On Dr. Ivana's Credentials I expected to see someone much older, I Guess that means I am Guilty of judging the cover by the book. In any event, I look forward to what Mike, Dave and the Dr. has put together. Back to waiting for that Fedex truck that contains my Mimby and the creature known as cthulhu. .

I really hope this is just a box that can sit between my CD player and DAC via Coax cable.

baldr said:

  1. The Manhattan is a huge upgrade for any music which ever lived in the real world or is based upon structured music theory; that would be pop, rock, jazz, classical, etc. For monotonic or arbitrary music such as many forms of techno or rap, zero to less so.

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A DSP algorithm that works on music that's based upon structured music theory? I'm intrigued!

Originally Posted by watchnerd /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Amongst my speakers are active monitors that have analog XLR inputs, but use DSP crossovers.
 
Is there anything about that process which would "undo" the Manhattan magic?
 
I would assume not if Manhattan is making adjustments in the frequency/phase domains, but one never knows...

Click to expand...

 
Using a Delta Sigma DAC will ruin the effect of the Manhattan. 

us blues said:

   
Using a Delta Sigma DAC will ruin the effect of the Manhattan. 

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It's an ADC, actually.

bigro said:

  Exciting news about the Manhattan and I am Glad there is no file folding Nonsense Going on. I am curious if this will be something that you have to switch on/off or bypass based on the type of music? I ask because I will go from Jazz, Blues, Country etc. to Rap and Electronic  and almost anything in the middle. This may have been addressed in the past and I just do not remember. Does the Manhattan project live in the Digital domain /Pre Dac in the Chain or is it post DAC?    Based On Dr. Ivana's Credentials I expected to see someone much older, I Guess that means I am Guilty of judging the cover by the book. In any event, I look forward to what Mike, Dave and the Dr. has put together. Back to waiting for that Fedex truck that contains my Mimby and the creature known as cthulhu. .

Click to expand...

I second this, Ro is the only person I've ever known that listens to as many genres of music as he does. I listen to many different genres, but he surpasses me by far. Granted, I'm really am not that close to many people (introvert, and Ro never EVER meets a stranger), but he really does listen to the most vast variety of music of anyone I've ever met. Together with his ears, he really should be on the testers list for Manhattan, me working with him has nothing whatsoever to do with it at all, wink wink.

As we stand, I view two or maybe three versions of the MP (Manhattan Project).  The goal is to have the first, reduced feature set (The one we are currently auditioning) in a Modi/Magni sized box at an affordable price.  It would connect prior to the D/A converter.  There is NO special equipment, encode/decode (a la MQA or Dolby), or any purchase required other than our one hardware box, which will perform its function with any other DAC products, although the sonic character of the DAC still matters.  It works equally well with vocals and instruments.  It is still a bit early, pending some other soon to be in the wild Schiit products to discuss socket flavors or connectivity.
 
We still have several significant milestones before production:
A.  Organize and optimize Ivana's code and libraries for Dave.
B.  As a result of A, design hardware with appropriate speed, buss width, and memory.
C.  Prototype and production engineer.
 
Since this product is as different as it is, this may take a while.  Believe me, I want to get it out as much as you want to hear it.
 
And now for something completely different.  I just deleted as many posts as I have total in the history of this thread.  One was a lapse in good taste, and two were noble rescuers, who despite their good intentions left the context of the poor taste for all to view.  Despite the deletions, I certainly appreciate the nobility. 
 
I may be a horrible offender in terms of occasionally crude utterances and contempt of some technologies, but despite the intensity of those feelings will never, never allow myself nor others personal remarks, ever.

baldr said:

As we stand, I view two or maybe three versions of the MP (Manhattan Project).  The goal is to have the first, reduced feature set (The one we are currently auditioning) in a Modi/Magni sized box at an affordable price.

Click to expand...

Would the other 1-2 boxes be dimensions/form factors Schiit has already released?

fargus said:

 
Such an incredible recording. If Manhattan can improve upon something that close to music perfection, I'll be first in line.

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My exact thoughts.
 
Dr. Ivana is quite the looker, I'm glad to hear the Manhattan is coming along nicely and that she'll be making her public debut at Canjam LA - best of luck, I'm sure you guys will kill it as always, especially now with the reinforcements.

bosiemoncrieff said:

Would the other 1-2 boxes be dimensions/form factors Schiit has already released?

Click to expand...

Hopefully BiFrost depending on computing horsepower.

baldr said:

  ...  It works equally well with vocals and instruments.  It is still a bit early, pending some other soon to be in the wild Schiit products to discuss socket flavors or connectivity.
 

Click to expand...

Hmmm.considering previous comments about connectivity this is intriguing.  As Always you give us enough info to spin out brains our of control. Glad to see the Extra Plug on the Cthulhu may have a Purpose in the future.
 
Contrary to rmoodys' belief I have no special ears In fact I have listened to so much music at loud levels over the years I am surprised I can still hear at all. if I have my facts right he used to work on planes in a past life which probably explains things, its not that I can hear more than he or anyone else, It is just he cant hear much anymore.

If one or both of the Manhattans (can we call the junior one Brooklyn?) do take USB, would they duplicate the function of Wyrd, or would having Wyrd in the chain still be advisable for USB users?