What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)

vocalstrance said:

  I believe that it is Schiit policy not to make remarks on another companies products. Topology maybe.

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Also I believe Jason had it covered in one of his chapters... Digital amplifiers (or anything to do with inherently noisy high frequency modulation) is not their cup of tea. As with delta-sigma technology, it's all driven by cost- and power-efficiency, which is not their ultimate goal.

artur9 said:

  @Baldr what's your take on the powerdac technologies such as utilized by Lyngdorf where the PCM data is fed directly into the amp?  I don't see any way to use multibit technology going that route...

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You can't feed digital PCM data directly into an analog amp: You still need a digital to analog conversion somewhere along that route. If the DAC is located inside the amp, then that would make it an integrated DAC/amp, I guess.

landroni said:

 
You can't feed digital PCM data directly into an analog amp: You still need a digital to analog conversion somewhere along that route. If the DAC is located inside the amp, then that would make it an integrated DAC/amp, I guess.

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Lyngdorf does exactly that (feed PCM into amp).  Check out their SDA-2400.  Analog is converted to digital on that amp or you can feed it digital directly but there's no DAC in the normal sense.
 
A review that may provide more info.

artur9 said:

  Lyngdorf does exactly that (feed PCM into amp).  Check out their SDA-2400.  Analog is converted to digital on that amp or you can feed it digital directly but there's no DAC in the normal sense.

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My understanding is that amps deal with electric signals (voltages and current), not bits. You can't feed bits into an amp, unless the amp incorporates a D/A IC (or similar device) which transforms the bits into something the amp understands and can handle. In other words, amps don't understand bits.
 
 
Now if we consider Class-D amps, if you feed them bits then you would need a switch (or similar device) to perform the D/A conversion, not unlike what D/S DACs do. If that's all that it has, then one way to think of such a device is a basic 1-bit DAC, which can output sufficient signal oomph to feed directly to transducers. But that's all it is: a 1-bit DAC. For instance native DSD processing can be implemented that way. For PCM input, a 1-bit switch will require all high-bit PCM content to be converted into 1-bit changes, which again is not unlike what D/S converters do. (Although it must be noted that modern D/S ICs usually use 3-5 1-bit switches working in tandem, and that pure 1-bit switches are more rare nowadays.)
 
 
Thus "digital amplifier" is just fancy marketing for a basic 1-bit DAC (or if you will a "switching amplifier") --- either way it's a variation on the 'integrated DAC/amp' theme. You'll find some people, including Schiit engineers, have strong opinions on 1-bit devices and their role in high-end audio.
On the subject of "digital amps", @Jason Stoddard has been quite emphatic: "Never, ever gonna happen."
And Class-D amps sit poorly with Schiit's philosophical approach to engineering:

In the philosophical domain, Class D amps are mathematical transformations of analog to pulse modulation, which is not really congruent with our approach of "preserve the original bits/signal." It's the same as our objection to DSD.

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In other words, I wouldn't hold my breath on Schiit going down this route anytime soon...  
 

landroni said:

   
Thus "digital amplifier" is just fancy marketing for a basic 1-bit DAC (or if you will a "switching amplifier") --- either way it's a variation on the 'integrated DAC/amp' theme.
 

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That is the gist of my question.  Is something like the Lyngdorg just a variation on the powerdac theme or is it something new?
 
BTW, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

FWIW, I know that my Sonos sound bar has 13 class "D" digital amplifiers in it.  The signal to the soundbar is optical.  So the soundbar is converting the digital signal into analogue.  I doubt this would work for headphones, but it sure sounds good via the soundbar.
 
Enjoy your music,
RCB

landroni said:

<snip>  
In other words, I wouldn't hold my breath on Schiit going down this route anytime soon...  
 

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I will not comment on specific switching amps by other manufacturers. I will, however, comment generally on them. The advantage of switching amps is efficiency. This means in a mains powered system, the power sucked out of the wall (per watt to the speaker) is less than any other amplifier type; efficiency. End of advantages – period; that’s it. They, in the context of older tech linear amps, by and large, sound like hemorrhoidal ass. They creep in everywhere, championed as they are by the I Squared (Intellectual Idiots – more on those in a future post). It is increasingly difficult to attend a movie, a live musical event, or go anywhere where there exists a live audio system where freedom from these abominations exists. They are much like antibiotic resistant genital diseases – painful and nearly impossible to be rid of.  Schiit will introduce a line of switching amps just after we have completed the anti-gravity enclosures for them, the “Schiit Floaters”.

The effect of good wine!

baldr said:

They, in the context of older tech linear amps, by and large, sound like hemorrhoidal ass.

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Having owned both Bryston (class AB) and Devialet (class D + class A) amps (also own some Schiit gear too I did a blind comparison. I have to say Devialet more than held its own - I'd recommend a listen if you folks at Schiit haven't heard them - it's pretty innovative and good sounding stuff.

vocalstrance said:

  I believe that it is Schiit policy not to make remarks on another companies products. Topology maybe.

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I haven't heard their amp/dac driving speakers, but I have heard the Phantoms (their integrated amp/dac/speaker) and they sound like ass

baldr said:

  They are much like antibiotic resistant genital diseases – painful and nearly impossible to be rid of. 

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I thought that they warned everyone once they got in country about the perils of black syphilis.  Did you miss that orientation training brief? 

Listening to Stemme and Domingo sing Tristan under Pappano's baton as preparation for opening night on Monday...

7ryder said:

  I haven't heard their amp/dac driving speakers, but I have heard the Phantoms (their integrated amp/dac/speaker) and they sound like ass

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I know we all have different tastes, but I can't agree that they 'sound like ass'. When correctly placed (like any loudspeaker) they sound very good indeed. I picked up a pair during the 45 day trial and they compared very favourably to my KEF Reference/Bryston setup.

One person's ass is another person's pleasure.  Or something.

ableza said:

  One person's ass is another person's pleasure.  Or something.

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I saw what you did there. I wish I hadn't, but I did.