[hpamdr]

I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.
 
I use Elise with OPO BDP105 and SMSL M8 (both based on ESS 9018 )
 
Out of the box, the X20 was not sounding at it best but after 300h of decoding feedinge wav, flac,DSD at different bitrate. I really started the evaluation and get from a dealer the one I wanted to buy a Metrum Acoustique Musette. 
 
The Musette was already burned by the distributor as it is a demo device.
I did listened during the test : Same palylist multiple times on both DAC and on Elise with T1 and the the tube i usally chose depending of the music.
Organ music, philarmonic, small ensemble (violin, flute, celo, viola), piano, harpsichord,  jazz, pop and blues.
 
 
Both Dac are very good DAC and at least as good as the OPO BDP105. I do not know if the comparison is fair as my ears are already trained to ESS9018 sound.
 
Musette have a very sweet sounding presentation with jazz, vocals and small ensembles. 
Medium and high are very well articulated the overall presentation is very natural but seems less neutral to me that the X20.
 
Gustard is very transparent and detailled and a bit more dynamic that the musette.
With organ music and symphonic music  i feel than the gustard is much precise.
No apparent digital glare, stridency or harshness/digitittus, the overall presentation is alvays very neutral and all seems to be at the right place.
Playing dsf/dff file using Native or DOP reveals more details than with the musette.
 
With Elise the gustard pairs better than the musette and is finally the winner !
For me the transparency an the precision of the X20 is really exploited with EL3N or ECC31 as drriver and you get the tube flavor to have a very natural sound. The remote and the very high output level goes well with Elise.
 
If the test was done with an SS amp or if I was not already used to ESS9018 sound i would probably decided to keep the musette as the sound is very natural and sweet.

 

[Lord Raven]

Good for you UT, for me, car audio is life.
 
I was changing the capacitors, it was an accident. I found replacement, I am back on track. Thank God!
 
Someone asked me to sell it out of nowhere, I am not selling.
 
 
Quote:

  Dang you guys compared your Elise to your cars. I didn't
 
2 years ago I would be driving around in my Hondas, enjoying the music but now I rather strap on my headphone. The cars are simply to get me to where I need to go. I did have a blast from the sound system yesterday when I went for a drive and turn up the volume. 
 
That's sad to hear LR. Tweeters are not for servicing. Why would you sell Elise. How are you going to enjoy your 6gb of DSD files. What would your HD600 do without Elise. 

 

[Lord Raven]

You're right, their magnets are so strong, I always avoided screws and tools around them but this was an accident.
 
Manufacturer is the worst, no after sales services at all, I am going to ditch this brand. Not even worth mentioning here!
 
Quote:

 
very sorry to hear this, LR.
the magnetic field strength of many tweeters is so great that they will literally pull steel tools and fasteners into them & as you have found out, pulling themselves together into destruction.
spkr builders/service people get to know this through experience and take precautions incl. keeping drivers in their boxes as long as possible.
the other aspect is the increasing use of exotic materials in the dome construction - beryllium, diamond ... these domes can be exceedingly fragile.  in the early days of ceramic tweeters, a lot of them were destroyed because people would invariably be drawn to touch them (a single touch meant failure) ... must be some psychological pull like petting a cat ... lol.
 
you should check with the manufacturer to see if the dome (i assume that is what is damaged) can be replaced at reasonable cost.

 

[Lord Raven]

Thanks WB for the comforting words, I have found a replacement and it is coming in a day or two. I am glad I found it, not a single dealer helped me out, talked to America, Canada, Dubai, and finally a dealer in Italy helped me out. Focal is the worst company ever, this is the 2nd time I had to seek their help and no one even responded. The are just making money selling things but no after sales services.
 
Thanks once again for the cheering up Killing your equipment by mistake is the worst or heartache... 
 
Quote:

 

  Biggest mistake of my life, thought to share. I was servicing my tweeters and damaged one. The pair was placed together with their protective shield on, the one pulled the other and damaged the dome. I am so heart broken. Glad I just bought a replacement. Don't even ask how much it costs. It costs TWO Elise for a single tweeter.
   
  And someone just offered me to buy my Elise, out of no where. 
   
  Wish me luck guys, bad time in my audio life! 

 


Sorry to hear. Could have been the magnets as mentioned by UT.

Check with the manufacturers if they will let you refurb the ones you have or give you a discount. When I was installing with high end installers things happened more often than I care to admit. Especially the dreaded cleaning ladies.... moving to vacuum under speakers or bump into them with vacuums or wipe electronics wet... Or construction guys, or the owners and occassionally someone from the team. Those protectors can be deceiving and really only help with little kids and pets to a little extent for the mids and bass.

The horror for installers are that these items are custom built and can take months until they are rebuilt and you are paid in the end, so you really try everything to avoid issues and give yourself enough palying room.

We were insured so that is also different. One of the worst things that happened I can talk about was a client upgrading a unit he bought in the States without telling us and just switching the Furutech plug. Well there is a difference between 220 and 110 V. We ended up paying for it and only months later did the manufacturer inform us what happened... Caused more than 20K GBP of damage initially and could have caused a fire in a house that would have bankrupted my boss many times over, luckily the distributor could fix most of it and admitted the fuse should of handled the worst. The client felt guilty but we never said anything and in the end he recommended us strongly and later fessed up on his own. Turned out to be funny in the end, kind of, but just one dip switch could have cost an unforseeable amount of damage.

That smaller stuff does happen a lot in high end, especially if people have kids, pets and parties. Oh Champagne the enemy of High End. Both watermarks on speakers and spuilt bubbly. Oh and drunk people tripping over wires...

The worst however is the feeling you fXXXed things up yourself though. Especially when you try your hardest to be careful beyond belief.
However check with the manufacturer, many will be forthcoming and maybe feel your pain and are especially good at giving discounts for upgrades. Its much easier if you have a bit of a personal connection to where you bought it, e.g. locally than amazon.

We had some good experience buying speaker components used, also from manufacturers, because of blown speaker parts. This happens quite easily if the connectors are loose, that popping will kill speakers really fast with big amps. Or again those dreaded cleaning ladies unplug things and replugging them when they are turned on....

With new replacements you have the issue that one part is new and the other has thousands of hours on it. So buying used, if you know the quality is often the better idea and cheaper. Tweeters last a long time but will need to break in as well (of course depending on system).

Thought I would share some stories to cheer you up. That stuff sucks.

PS If it is any consolidation I still have not gotten my Elise from Feliks due to lack of some parts. Should be finished next week though Invoice 46 for those of you curious what is happening. Some components had to be reordered.

Take care
WBiFi Retro Stereo50

 

[supersonic395]

 
I do understand your patience wearing thin, I recall my first bespoke order and the wait towards the end was absolutely agonizing
 
Fortunately it was worth it and has since made wait times much easier and hopefully the wait will be worth it for you too

 


No, you misunderstand me. I was completely agreeing with you. Luckily I have had the experience of ordering quite a few things bespoke and that has steeled me a bit to this. Not that the best way to deal with the anxiety is venting a bit. The worst was a custom full wood kitchen. Got delayed twice and was in a house with a minifridge and hotplate for 6 weeks longer than I had anticipated. I was more or less OK with it, but it almost cost me a girlfriend of mine. Luckily she picked the kitchen, so I was off the hook but roughing it was not exactly her style. So I take it with a grain of salt, sometimes you vent but as a German saying goes "For all good things you need to wait". Really much better than lowering quality to speed up production.

I'm now in the home stretch, knock on wood

Cheers WB

Ah okay I see

Bring on the Elise!!

 

[WB2016]

 


Ah, thank god for Italian friendliness. Even in the world of Focal it exists. I guess you have a Utopia from the problems you mentioned. Nice speakers less so the customer support. Yes, we can pull out all the stereotypes of French being rude and unhelpful, especially to American or German males, but it seems to be so fitting, especially you experience with the Italians. It will be a funny story once you exchanged them and your wallet recovers believe me.

Here is where installers with connections really can help, but honestly some manufacturers have little discount and bad customer care that even installers tell their clients to order the speakers themselves or try to stear them in another direction.

All the BS about system upgrades seems like nothing if your speakers are damaged. Had a forced "mono" setup for a client hooked up while he waited for a grande utopia that got scratched someplace in transport most likely. At least you have headphones and an Elise. The customer was not happy to say the least. Great speakers a bit odd of a company and luckily the only time I ever dealt with them regarding customer support. We ended up installing my bosses personal home speakers to cover the gap, which made my boss an unhappy camper and in turn me as well. Not that they would have expidited shipping or processing or anything Cannot talk bad about the company they make good stuff but their customer service is cliche french. Strangely Naim which they own has very good service, don't understand why, don't care and will likely never have to care again. Did they make you feel like it was all your fault and subtley question your intelligence. If not you didn't get the full treatment

Cheers
WB

 

[UntilThen]

  I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.
 
 

Interesting impressions of the DACs. I have the pleasure of hearing a Metrum Acoustics Hex with Woo Audio Wa2 + GEC 6AS7G + Amperex Bugle boys and HD800 original. Had good synergy there.

 

[UntilThen]

  here's a quartet of fave artists/performances (really, each is deserving of a separate posting but i'm lazy):
 
and i can't wait for the live performance vids from this supergroup, but in the meantime here's some audio:
 

Thanks G. I like these. Sounds really good on my setup. NAD d1050 > Elise + 6xEL3N > HD650. I thought I had the T1 on but it's the HD650 ... 

 
I'm just lost in music.
 
Amazing video quality and sound reproduction. 1080p HD

 

[UntilThen]

Got to thank Gee man for introducing me to KEXP. 

 
HE560 on Elise sounds so good with this. Get this headphone. It's so natural sounding and rhythmic.
 

 

[geetarman49]

  Thanks G. I like these. Sounds really good on my setup. NAD d1050 > Elise + 6xEL3N > HD650. I thought I had the T1 on but it's the HD650 ... 

 
I'm just lost in music.
 
Amazing video quality and sound reproduction. 1080p HD

 
 

  Got to thank Gee man for introducing me to KEXP. 

 
HE560 on Elise sounds so good with this. Get this headphone. It's so natural sounding and rhythmic.
 
 

 
my pleasure, UT.   here's some canadiana that i'm sure will sound great with elise.
the beautiful & talented kendel carson sings on this one, but she is well-known for her great fiddle work.  she is seen in one of the vids doing guitar too ... not many bands have three fiddlers.
 

 

[UntilThen]

Well well well. Belle Starr next song is Jolene and I see lots of singers doing this song but this one caught my attention and it's no wrecking ball. Very good I'd say. 

 

 

[geetarman49]

truly a great rendition, UT ... but she needs a fiddler ... maybe this one

.
 
 

 

[WB2016]

I've evaluated Gustard X20 side to Metrum Acoustics Musette with Elise and T1 for a week. I did the tests with EL3N, 6N7GT, ECC31, VT-231 as drivers and 5968, 6080 GEC/CSF as power tube.


 


I use Elise with OPO BDP105 and SMSL M8 (both based on ESS 9018 )


 


Out of the box, the X20 was not sounding at it best but after 300h of decoding feedinge wav, flac,DSD at different bitrate. I really started the evaluation and get from a dealer the one I wanted to buy a Metrum Acoustique Musette. 


 


The Musette was already burned by the distributor as it is a demo device.


I did listened during the test : Same palylist multiple times on both DAC and on Elise with T1 and the the tube i usally chose depending of the music.


Organ music, philarmonic, small ensemble (violin, flute, celo, viola), piano, harpsichord,  jazz, pop and blues.


 


 


Both Dac are very good DAC and at least as good as the OPO BDP105. I do not know if the comparison is fair as my ears are already trained to ESS9018 sound.


 


Musette have a very sweet sounding presentation with jazz, vocals and small ensembles. 


Medium and high are very well articulated the overall presentation is very natural but seems less neutral to me that the X20.


 


Gustard is very transparent and detailled and a bit more dynamic that the musette.


With organ music and symphonic music  i feel than the gustard is much precise.


No apparent digital glare, stridency or harshness/digitittus, the overall presentation is alvays very neutral and all seems to be at the right place.


Playing dsf/dff file using Native or DOP reveals more details than with the musette.


 


With Elise the gustard pairs better than the musette and is finally the winner !


For me the transparency an the precision of the X20 is really exploited with EL3N or ECC31 as drriver and you get the tube flavor to have a very natural sound. The remote and the very high output level goes well with Elise.


 


If the test was done with an SS amp or if I was not already used to ESS9018 sound i would probably decided to keep the musette as the sound is very natural and sweet.

 


Hi HPAMDR,

just the type of comparison I was going to do now that the Elise will hopefully arrive this or next week. Good to hear of the synergy with the Elise, I was looking at the X20 as well since it was compared to the Vega at 3500USD, which avoided the 9018 trebble issues very well and Yggy the Schiit TOTL R2R multibit. At only 800Euros it seems a steal if you get the advantages of Sabre without the trebble issues and diggy sound (as much) and the advantages of transparancy, soundstage and detail vs. R2R. I was going to compare it to the DAC19 SE and glad to hear that the X20 SE is good as well. Plus the REMOTE!!! That really is almost a must have for being on the couch

For those in Europe you can order the X20 from amazon.co.uk or .it form kidult without import taxes, which would be around 30% while maintaining competitive pricing, looks quite tempting. Also seems as if you can do some minor reversible tweeks very easily, e.g. replace that terrible circuitbreaker with something HIFI and some isolation, both vibration and EM.

Thanks for posting
WB

 

[pctazhp]

This is my promised side-by-side comparison of the T1Gen 2 and HD800S. I have spent a lot of time listening to both headphones.
 
For those that don’t want to read all the way through, I’m going to disclose up front that I have decided to keep the T1 and put my HD800S up for sale. They are both amazing headphones, and I can easily see why different people would prefer one over the other, even by wide margins. I believe in deciding between two phones, it really comes down to a gut-level decision that is difficult to describe or even understand. For me, I made my decision primarily on the basis of which phone did I usually find myself listening to longer without being tempted to change back to the other (the T1 won this one) and which phone did I usually listen to for the shortest period of time before wanting to switch back to the other (the T1 also won this one).
 
Having said that, I will now try to describe the differences I hear and experience. Of course, the amp is the Elise. I am using the same tube combination with both phones so I don’t waste a lot of time switching back and forth. I have chosen, my EL3N/ Tungsol 7236 combination, because I think it is well suited to both phones.
 
Size of Soundstage: I’m starting with this because it is the one category where I’m giving the nod to the 800. The expanse of space with the 800 is truly amazing, and I suspect is what is largely responsible for its popularity. It is the one headphone I have ever heard (including the T1) that gives me the full sense of what I think the dimensions of venue were where the recording was made. It is also the one phone that equals or rivals the spatial experiences I have had with some of the finest two-channel, speaker-based systems I have owned or heard. This is not to say that the T1 is seriously lacking in this regard. It just doesn’t quite reach the truly stunning quality the 800 exhibits in this category.
 
Aesthetics: The is purely a personal preference, and I give the nod to the T1. The 800 has a very impressive contemporary design, and I really like the black. I think it is probably much less prone to scratching than the HD800 Classic seems to be. But I personally prefer the simpler, retro design of the T1. It doesn’t have the bravado or heft of the 800 design, but like Bill O’Reilly, I’m a simple man and prefer the simpler things in life))))
 
Comfort:  I have elephant ears and a large pointed-top head (sounds really handsome, doesn’t it????). The 800 has frequently been described as the most comfortable headphone ever. Well, for me the T1 is more comfortable. I can wear it for hours without any physical discomfort. I cannot say the same for the 800. I suspect a lot of people would reach the opposite conclusion on this comparison. The 800 ear cavity is massive and provides considerable distance from the ears. Although it is a very large can, it is light weight. Sennheiser obviously devoted a lot of time to the physical design of the 800.
 
Detail: The T1 clearly wins here. Listening for example to Shania Twain’s “Still the One: Live from Las Vegas” concert recording, I just can’t understand a lot of her words to the songs I’m not familiar with. I get most of the words with the T1. On other recordings (such as Shelby Lynne’s “I Can’t Imagine”) I swear with the T1 I am actually hearing the fingers stroke the strings of the guitar. With the 800 I just hear a guitar playing. Same with drums. With the T1, I feel I am hearing the drumsticks hit the skin, and not just a drum playing as with the 800.
 
Spatial Clues:  As I said above the 800 is spatially more expansive than the T1. But the spatial clues are quite a bit better with the T1. Vocals and instruments are precisely placed in space, both from side-to-side and front-to-back, and the “air” between the instruments is palpable. As UT has described, the soundstage of the T1 is truly “holographic”.
 
Bass:  The T1 has tighter and more impactful bass. Maybe it is because I know that Sennheiser added some second order harmonic distortion to the bass of the 800S, but somehow something just doesn’t seem quite right to me with the 800S’ bass. The bass on both the 800 and T1 is acceptable for a TOTL headphone. It’s not a Beats sound, but I don’t know of any Beats aficionados on this thread. I do want to say that when I describe the bass of the T1 as “controlled”, I don’t mean it is “sterile”. It is very natural, including very natural “bloom”.
 
Midrange:  I have read comparisons between the T1 and 800 where it is said that T1’s midrange is recessed by comparison. If I listen real hard I think maybe I can hear that, but to me the T1 midrange is clearer, cleaner, more detailed and more natural.
 
Treble:  Simply stated the T1 has considerably more “sparkle” than the 800. However, the 800 trebles may be a little more natural, and not lacking in any significant manner.
 
Timbre:  The T1 is just so clean, controlled, free of resonance and detailed, timbre is better than the 800.
 
Natural reverberation: This may fall under “detail”, but I want to treat it as a separate category. The late Harry Pearson used to talk a lot about the ability of a system to reproduce the natural reverberation that occurs when direct soundwaves of vocals and instruments hit the boundaries of the recording venue and bouncing back. In this respect, the T1 is the clear winner.
 
Emotional involvement: This is a purely subjective category. For me, the T1 is much more involving than the 800. Again, referencing UT, the 800 is more “relaxed” than the T1. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But to me the 800 by comparison is “flat” and lacks the “bloom” or “magic” of the T1.
 
So is the T1 perfect? Of course not. There is no such thing as a perfect electronic transducer. While it has more sparkle than the 800, it’s trebles and aggressiveness can be a little fatiguing on some recordings if I concentrate hard on that. But when I’m just listening to the “performance” and not the “headphone” I can listen for hours with the T1 and still want to keep going.
 
If I could describe in a few short words, the main advantage of the T1 I guess I would say that it is exceptionally well-integrated from very low bass to the high trebles – not to mention that it is a made-in-heaven match for the Elise (for which we all owe a debt of gratitude to H1 for initially discovering).
 
Please remember, everything above is just my personal experience on the system I have described. The words I have chosen to describe the differences probably impart a sense of greater difference than what I am actually hearing. They are the best words I can find, but I think as with so many reviews they probably “overstate” rather than “understate” what the reviewer is trying to describe. And finally, don’t forget I’m 71 – with all the advantages of experience that comes with that as well as the decline in my hearing that has naturally come with age.
 
For those who made it this far, thanks for reading. I spent a lot of time preparing for and writing this post, but welcome any and all critical comments.

 

[pctazhp]

  Well well well. Belle Starr next song is Jolene and I see lots of singers doing this song but this one caught my attention and it's no wrecking ball. Very good I'd say. 

 

Not quite like the smokey, dark cowboy bars of my distant past - buy I agree. Very good.