Feliks-Audio ELISE...New thread.

[JazzVinyl]

I am so taken with 6SN7 as driver, and multi 6BL7's as power tubes, that I think I will start some measurements and drawings for Mrs Xuling to use to make a 6x (total) 3x per side, 6BL7 adapter.

Would want it to span both 6as7 sockets, use the brass octal plugs, no rotation option (this will make it more solid/rigid), bring one set of external heater wires out, at the rear of the circuit board, to supply all 6 of the 6BL7's.

Funny, we said how easily the 6SN7's could be beaten, when we should have been wondering if the 6AS7G's could be out done.







Congrats to all who are already at their Tube Summit...happy for you!

Pardon our dust, as others continue the climb.

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones....



.

 

[pctazhp]

   
Hi pct...think you must have telepathic abilities, 'cos I've been toying with the idea of saying something along these lines for a while now - for I feel I'm at a point where I no longer fear cries of heresy!...
 
I'd be the first to sing the virtues of extended trial and experimentation with as many different combinations of equipment as possible, but I feel it's only too easy to get somewhat carried away with it all, lol...(even though my several years of it is nothing to some in head-fi land!!).
 
The more I dissect not only our own postings, but many others on different threads/forums, the more I realise the extreme difficulty (some might say bordering on futility!) in actually being able to gain any really solid idea of which direction one should take - especially when it entails spending a good deal of hard-earned money, lol!... Even when allowing for differences due to individual preference, the sometimes vastly-ranging impressions given by listeners with very similar equipment must support this proposition - and at the very least lead to confusion and doubt.
 
This, of necessity, is pretty well inevitable...and some would argue is all part of the fun and journey. I would now, however, veer more in the direction you yourself allude to - ie. go far enough along the road journey to have a reasonably good idea of what constitutes good quality sound reproduction; decide on the combination of gear that provides one's own preferred sound at a 'comfortable' price level, and stick with it!!...regardless of what others may say, lol! 

...then, I believe, true audio nirvana can be achieved...

...but this, of course, is just my take on things!...CHEERS!!  

Maybe telepathy explains all of the strange voices I keep hearing in my mind )))
 
I just hope people don't forget that if it weren't for you the Elise wouldn't even exist !!!
 
I started down this path because you, UT and others convinced me that the Elise was the most promising path I could find (regardless of cost) to building a system that would allow me to enjoy reproduction of music at home the way I used to back in my audiophile (vinyl-2 channel speaker) days. My confidence in your was certainly well placed!!!
 
My tube rolling days are not completely at an end - mainly because of what is already in the pipeline. Today my second set of EL3N marshmallows arrived from China and I'm now running an all EL3N (four) Elise. Major goosebumps ))) I'll be ordering the dual adapters as soon as Mrs Xuling returns from vacation and my third set of EL3Ns will be here this coming week.
 
Hope you are having a nice weekend. You deserve it 

 

[JazzVinyl]

I started down this path because you, and others convinced me that the Elise was the most promising path I could find (regardless of cost) to building a system that would allow me to enjoy reproduction of music at home the way I used to back in my audiophile (vinyl-2 channel speaker) days.

Did thy retain thy table and vinyl, from said audiophile days?

 

[pctazhp]

Did thy retain thy table and vinyl, from said audiophile days?

I'm really pretty embarrassed to say that I did not. It was a pretty crazy time in my life and just about everything changed. But I can't change a single second of my past. That was then and now is now. All is good ))))

 

[JazzVinyl]

I'm really pretty embarrassed to say that I did not. It was a pretty crazy time in my life and just about everything changed. But I can't change a single second of my past. That was then and now is now. All is good ))))

Hear ya. Most folks let ithem get away from them.

Speaking of those days, I remember when CD hit the marketplace, the local LP stores absolutely changed, overnight.

One day, it was buy vinyl, the next day, it was buy CD's!! I was horrified. I could buy a great album on vinyl (at the end) for 5 bucks. Now, all they had were CD's for 19.95!! That was a meteoric price change for me,

They all said "don't worry, in a year or two, CD's will be down to 5 bucks too". But that never happened.

Now, no one wants CD. They are dumping them big time. I bought three 300+ CD changers from a gal on Craigslist, for $70.00, all three were full of store bought CD's!! i offered to unload her CD's...nope, don't need those anymore, she said.

All ripped MP3 to an iPod, I guess.

Amazing....

See Ya....

 

[mordy]

Hi pct,
 
I have been tube rolling for some 6-7 years now. It started with the Little Dot MKIII. Over a period of several years we kept on trying one tube after another, one combination after another, constantly upgrading the sound.
 
The end game was probably using the C3g as drivers and 2.5A 6AS7/6080 tubes as power tubes. At every level of discovery, I felt that this is it - i was perfectly satisfied with the sound (well - almost). But I was happy.
 
Over time you got to know the sonic taste of the other members on the forum; if so and so said that this mod sounds better, you knew that you could rely on it.
 
Then came the Elise. After a while of soul searching I decided to go for it. Got serial #9, and after hearing it for the first time I wrote: There is no going back - my MKIII has been collecting dust since then. It was so superior in sound.
 
Now, through the combined efforts of all the members on this forum, we have elevated the Elise to higher, exalted levels.
 
At this time my favorite tube combination is the EL3N as drivers and the 6BL7 as power tubes. If JV wouldn't have described the great SQ with double 6BL7s I would be perfectly happy with my current combination. Now I am awaiting the results of triple 6BL7s....
 
Gentlemen: IMHO we have not reached the end game yet with the Elise. Nothing wrong in being perfectly satisfied with 6SN7GTA/6H13C, but we all know that there are better choices.
 
As time marches on, there will be a consensus of which tubes/combinations sound the best - a small group of tubes with plenty of room for individual tastes.
 
For me, part of the charm of getting there is the travel.
 
IF GOOD IS GOOD, ISN'T BETTER BETTER?

 

[pctazhp]

@mordy. I don’t have an argument with anything you say. It’s your story and experience and I respect that. I’d just like to recap my own Elise experience to date.

First, though, I want to say that I am aware that, as with many audio threads, there are some deeply felt disagreements among us as to what does and doesn’t work. I have no interest in getting involved in any debate. I have no vested interest in what anyone else finds to be the “best”. I’m just trying to learn, and contribute where I can.

Before I got my Elise I was running a Little Dot MK IV SE (C3G drivers/stock power tubes) into my HD700s. Just dropping the Elise into the chain with its stock tubes was my first major Elise breakthrough. The next came when I started using the EL3Ns as drivers. Then came the 6BL7s as power tubes. Through my HD700s, the result was stunning.

But then my new T1s arrived. The transition from HD700s to T1s was not entirely smooth. The 700s are good phones, but they are colored and have some irritating treble problems. But I had become addicted to their “sound”. However, after a few days with the T1s I found I just couldn’t go back to the HD700s. Unfortunately, the 6BL7s did not seem to mate very well with my new T1s.

And now I am at my next “Elise breakthrough” -running an EL3N (four) only Elise. I won’t try to describe what I am hearing. I’m burned out trying to come up with words to describe my sonic experiences. For me one of the hardest and worst jobs I could have would be an audio reviewer. I consider Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound to be the greatest reviewer of all times. I doubt anyone will exceed or even equal him. 

I will simply say I feel I am getting close to my end game. I will read with interest what you and others do. But I will also say that the idea of 6 power tubes astride the Elise is probably not going to be my cup of tea. My first ever tube amp was an Audio Research D250 MKII. As UT once pointed out to me, it had 32 tubes. And that didn’t even include the tubes in my Audio Research SP-11 pre-amp. There wasn’t much tube-rolling going on in those days! I think 6 tubes total may be my limit today. And I’m drawn by the fact that the Elise can be run with 6 EL3Ns without any external power.

To each his own. Happy listening ))

 

[JazzVinyl]

I would point out that the 6BL7 is barely larger than a 6SN7, so while there would be six of them, they are just as cute as a button

The largest inconvenience would be the absolute necisity to heat them externally, with a beefy power supply.

 

[DecentLevi]

A fellow mon ami (compadre') @connieflyer recently expressed interest in the Elise as a next amp, and wanted to know how it stacks up against the Elekit TU-8200 amp. Unfortunately I've yet to try either of these amps, and from a crude comparison between the specs of these two, here's what I generally gather: The Elekit is heavier / takes up more desk space, is $100 more, but has the option to also drive speakers, yet at only around 8 watts per speaker. The Elise on the other hand, has sparked much more excitement on Head-Fi than the Elekit (27 vs. 735 pages from both threads), even though it's newer than Elekit. 
 
You can also compare specs here:
https://tubedepot.com/products/elekit-tu-8200-stereo-tube-amplifier-kit
http://www.feliksaudio.pl/en
 
Here are more official reviews of the Elise:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/feliks-audio-elise
 
AND NOW I'M PLEASED TO PRESENT YOU SOME OF MY HIGHLIGHTS FROM THIS THREAD! 

 

 
post #2591   11/21/15

  If you know what the interior of the most famous theatres in the world look like, perhaps you can close your eyes whilst listening to your headphones with Elise and be transported there for a live performance. So starting one everyday, I shall showcase these amazing sound auditoriums and amphitheatres. Remember only Elise can recreate this experience. 

 
Boston Opera House


Interior of Boston Opera House

 

 
post #5078  12/30/15

  Big , Bigger than Big    3D, holographic
 
Leonard Cohen, My secret life track,
Backup singers are more vivid holographic and huge and controlled bass compare to Fdd20s.
Spanish Harlem by Rebecca track
 
You can tell distinct differences on each shaker sounds. WOWO WOW, Collin wasn't imagining or over stating. Wow What a bass and detail without sacrificing silky mid.
 
If you FDD20 or 2031 are 10
EL3N is 11.5  as of now (almost two hours in)
Beyer T1 G1+ EL3N = match made in heaven
 
I am mostly playing Elise as Preamp and pairing with SS power Amp.
EVERYTHING(speakers, amp, the wall) DISAPPEARED WHEN MUSIC IS ON. When I closed my eyes and listen I'd forget that I am listing in my livingroom. WOW WOW WOW OW WOWOWOWOWO NO JOKES. WOW
The best yet.......
 

 
post #6004 of 7598 4 weeks ago
 

  EL3N and 5998   15/10
 
Alright folks this is it. This is the benchmark of all benchmarks. This is the culmination of a year's worth of tube rolling on Elise. Blame @Lord Raven  for sleeping 6 months without upgrading his tubes.
 
Let me warm up my verbal gymnastics. This needs a proper write up. It is after all the best driver and best power tubes on the planet. Never mind @hypnos1 's GEC 6AS7G. That's out of reach for most of us. So it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.
 
EL3N:- I've said before. My one word to describe this is ENERGY. JV's description is ORGANIC. I can't remember H1's description 

 Well he has more than one word. Quite a lot to be precise. This tube sounds great across the whole frequency spectrum. High notes are not a problem. Midrange is child's play. Bass ...are you kidding me? This is bass king...much better than ECC31. In a word, the tube does the whole FR well and presents to you as a musical masterpiece. Not only that, it's equally adapt at the role of power as it is in the role of a driver. Take your pick, EL3N is everything to everybody. Question is, do we have enough of this tube to last 10 years?
 
5998:- This power tube has been described countless times by just about every tube rollers. About 5998 times is not too far off the mark. Surprisingly this power tube also excels in the whole FR presentation. Most people will tell you they hear the bass first but that is so inaccurate. There's has never been a more sweeter tube for vocals. Midrange is it's fiefdom.Treble is it's playground. Take it anyway, the 1st listen of this power tube will be one of astonishment. The sonic qualities of this power tube is as good as it is expensive. So please don't buy up the stocks completely.
 
So what happens when you combine the EL3N and the 5998. Well for a start, 2 worlds collide, sparks fly everywhere and you experience a deep awakening. Decades old pent up energies are released and as the tubes warm up, the 1st listen is nothing short of breath taking....but then this word has been used so many times, it's lost much of it's meaning. Truth is this combo is the bringer of wars, mars, love, peace, tranquility and ultimately a state of Zen. You've finally arrived and attain audio nirvana. Congrats, you deserve it.
 
Oh one other thing. This combo works exceptionally well with HD650, HE560 and the venerable T1...... as well as <insert your headphones here>.
 
Cheers happy listening. 

 

 

 
post #6225  3 weeks, 3 days ago
 

   
Right now listening to Miles Davis, this is my favorite album of his, 2nd time playing today at 24/192.
 
Same setup but different power tubes, Geek>Elise>EL3N>Chatham 6AS7G
 
The view from up here is heavenly 

 

 
 
I have just rolled in the Chatham 6AS7G and I must say that these are equally melodious as 5998 sitting at the top shelf, they are a good competition to the mighty 5998 and truly deserve the second spot on the list of power tubes. The detail is as good as 5998 but a little less analytical and airy, I only listened to the Jazz recording so far and the instruments are not fatiguing, there is ample amount of bass coming out of the bass player, enough for my listening pleasure, I can still hear the awesome reverberation on the recording that I almost never heard before, this gives me the feeling of presence. With 5998 the EL3N shines and the music is puts you into a dream like state, you feel floating on the air. On this Miles Davis Jazz recording, I can hear the faintest, inaudible touches of the instruments, which gives me a great pleasure, feels like I am touch the cords of the bass player. Overall, the Chatham 6AS7G is a perfect match with EL3N, you hear almost everything, and there is no fatigue, extended listeners best pick since too much detail sometimes fatigue some ears haha Ok now I am listening to Bob Marley, and the volume is at the same 9 o'clock and the music is so full, there is a huge soundstage, detail is there, vocals are perfectly centered and Bob's voice is making me high like I am smoking some sniff LOL Bass is precise and hits you in the throat, instrument placement is awesome, I can feel everything distinctly. I would say, this is the best power tube EL3N deserves if you don't want to empty your wallet. Please notice that this is only 2nd or 3rd hours into EL3N and my Chatham's are also quite new. I don't believe in leaving tubes for burn in so for me a very slow burn in process is going on haha
 
The Chatham were once my top favorite tubes and this is why I collected a huge number of these, I still got 12 but a friend booked a pair so I got 10 now. Chatham 6AS7G takes the 2nd place on the shelf with all honor and dignity.
 
PS my flight is in some hours, I am bringing my Visseaux and Mazda 6N7G tubes and the EL3N adapters to test them as powers LOL
 
For those having issues with distortion on Mazda and Visseaux, I faced the same problem, one of each Mazda and Visseaux tubes have distortion so I am using the other good tubes from Mazda and Visseaux pairs, they have no distortion at all and sound good. When used as a pair, they kind of have less centered image, I could never tell this because my Suzier adapters were faulty and had hum. I just got the golden adapters from Mrs-X and I could tell all my ECC31 tubes are fine, Fiver 6N7GT are fine and one of each Mazda and Visseaux are fine. I know these two tubes have same internals so I will keep them as a pair and return the other two.
 
I will test this issue in UT's Elise, if they (Mazda and Visseaux) had distortion that means Elise is fine and the tubes are faulty.
 
 

 
post #6643   2 weeks, 6 days ago

...
Is an EL 3 N and 6BL 7 a perfect 10?

 
post #6828  2 weeks, 3 days ago

   
Revised thoughts now, folks...both GECs back where they belong, and....WOW!...once again I'm reminded of why they're regarded as the 'Holy Grail'. Sorry Glenn, but I'm fairly sure that anything less than 6x 6BL7s would be struggling to beat this sound, when driven by the fabulous EL3Ns, lol! 

. I count myself very lucky indeed to possess these GEC/Osrams...I only wish the prices now weren't so horrendous - then more Elise owners could perhaps share my amazement and joy at these tubes...

...but, of course, let's not forget :  Elise + any tubes still sounds glorious, lol!! 

...
 
 I'm afraid I shall be leaving the 4x EL3N powers to you after all UT...this return has shocked me more than I could have imagined...totally gobsmacked...(once again!! 

).
 
And so I can now confirm with more confidence than ever before (thankfully!!) that this is truly my end-game set-up!!...(and so please note, MIKELAP - wherever you are now - it CAN end!!...but don't quote me on that, lol! 

...).
 
So CHEERS and HAPPY LISTENING TO YOU ALL!!     

 

 
post #6833  2 weeks, 3 days ago

   
Hi there UT...afraid to say I am now - for the first real time ever - 100% sure, my Antipodean friend!! 

.
 
Now that my ears are pretty well clear of the side effects of a cold, I have spent the past couple of hours in about the most hyper-intensive/critical analysis ever of what has been entering them, and have fallen in love with the GECs all over again...thanks to the EL3Ns, of course (and T1s, lol!). And hard as I tried to find fault of any kind, I'm relieved to say there is absolutely nothing more whatsoever that I could wish for. This is the first time I can honestly say there hasn't been the slightest feeling that something may just be missing...I feel the same magic now as if reliving one's very first sweet kiss...and it's a good while since I can truly admit to that, lol! 

 

...(much as I'm devoted to my better half!! 

)....'nuff said, methinks!...

 
But I am so glad you are really enamoured of your latest set-up....she sure looks good too, lol! I am truly happy for you...WELL DONE!!...
 
Ah well, the clock is about to strike, so I'll say goodnight once more...and finish by saying I really hope there will be plenty of life left in my GECs if and when I make it to Oz...and hope also you won't have snaffled all my HENNESSY!!!........CHEERS!.....
 

 
The above posts should be very useful for those sitting on the sidelines about Mrs. Elise 

. This unrivaled enthuasm from random members far and wide all with the same paranormally good experience has got me to break my rule to try something first. I dunno about ya'all, but you guys totally had me at 'heavenly'!!! And within weeks I too shall be one the lucky ones!

 

[mordy]

Hi pct,
 
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
 
I find it fascinating that there is such a divergence in what works for different people. Some people don't get good results with the EL3N or the 6BL7, and others get excellent results.
 
Be it what it may, and as stated many times before, there is no best tube or best solution for everybody, but I feel that it is safe to say that there is a group of tubes that is top tier. In this select group everybody should be able to find great sound that works for them.
 
Most of the people on this forum seem to be listening through headphones, whereas I mainly listen through speakers - perhaps it makes a difference in the choice of tubes as well.

 

[UntilThen]

I'm waiting to hear your impressions of Elise when you get her @DecentLevi . It's a long time coming but you're a very keen head-fier so it will be interesting to hear what you think of this streetcar named Desire aka Elise. 

 
It's quite fun reading some of the past comments but I think it will be a torture for me to reread it again. 

 
Well I'm glad you did get to try out 4xEL3N in Elise @pctazhp . You're the 3rd person. TJ tried it and love it too. For me, it's a defining moment. What I wrote about the benchmark in post #6004 should now be rewritten for not just 4xEL3N but 6xEL3N. I'm very impressed by this Sakuma's style which I wrote here post #5966. At the point of writing that, I've not heard 4xEL3N yet.
 
There is one more experiment for me. My pair of dual 6BL7 adapters are on it's way to me. I'll be running 2x6N23P and 4x6BL7 (total 6.62A) without external power supplies. If this works just as well as multiple EL3N, then it will be real bonus for me and for some of us I guess.
 
I wish everyone a joyful time using Elise with their headphones or speakers. There are certainly lots of tubes combination to keep everyone and their wallets happy. Remember it's because of a fundamentally well design and well executed Elise that makes all these amazing tube rolling possible. To recap @pctazhp again, I certainly feel that @hypnos1 has done much for our community in being responsible for Elise creation, also the following tubes discovery and initial use in Elise ... C3g, ECC31, FDD20, 2031 and finally EL3N. Thanks very much mon ami.
 

 

[tjw321]

Edit: Turns out that I was going down with flu so my hearing was compromised when I did this experiment.
 
I'm still on 4xEL3Ns but I did some "headphone rolling" last night.
 
My favourite, all-round, headphones (that I own) are currently the HD600s. The AKG K702s are close and, in some circumstances, they can beat the HD600s, but they are more fatiguing so I only listen to them when I'm "in the mood" (or on my ifi stack on which they aren't fatiguing at all, for some reason - probably because that is in the living room so I keep the volume down so as not to disturb everyone else). Although the HD600s are better all-round, all those sessions where I end up staying up all night playing "just one more song" have occurred with the AKGs - until I had my first session with 4xEL3Ns where I happened to be using my HD600s. So you can imagine how much I was looking forward to trying the AKGs with my 4xEL3Ns...
 
Uh-oh, They sounded terrible! There was no synergy at all! I'd delayed trying them out until I was more rested, but in the end I couldn't wait any longer and I tried them out yesterday despite being very short of sleep after a reunion get together on Friday. Maybe they'll be better another time, but I'm not optimistic.
 
OTOH, I picked up some really cheap DT990s a while back as an impulse purchase (because they were so cheap). I liked them, but I didn't love them. They were good for what I paid for them, but on sound quality alone there was no chance of them displacing my Senns, or my AKGs.....until the 4xEL3N! It was just as well I was so tired, otherwise it would have been another all-nighter. The DT-990 and the 4xEL3N have a real synergy together. I haven't tried them back to back with my HD600s yet, but I think it's going to be close! Add in the comfort factor, and the HD600s may be relegated (ifi->AKGs, Elise->DT990s, ?->HD600)
 
I'm going to give the AKGs another go at some point because I can't believe they're really that bad a match with the EL3Ns (they've worked with other valves), or maybe the EL3Ns just need a higher impedance headphone? (DT990 = 250ohm, HD600 = 300ohm, K702 = 62ohm). Or maybe I just need a T1....?

 

[UntilThen]

You need 6xEL3N for that par 5 drive !!!

Thanks for sharing TJ. Interesting to read your findings.

 

[UntilThen]

  And now I am at my next “Elise breakthrough” -running an EL3N (four) only Elise. I won’t try to describe what I am hearing. I’m burned out trying to come up with words to describe my sonic experiences. For me one of the hardest and worst jobs I could have would be an audio reviewer. I consider Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound to be the greatest reviewer of all times. I doubt anyone will exceed or even equal him. 

I will simply say I feel I am getting close to my end game. 

That was how I felt when I first listen to 4xEL3N. That was the day LR passed me his 2 white EL3N adapters. I spend a day listening to 2 EL3N as driver and 2 EL3N as power tubes and could not believe how good they sound through my T1. It's a natural presentation that is effortless. Music just sound right with these 4 tubes in Elise. I wasn't too lavish with my praise because my HE560 has distortions past 10:30am on the volume dial but my T1 and HD650 was just producing so soothing music. 
 
Then the dual EL3N adapters came and I was able to run 6xEL3N in Elise. That was when I was quietly happy and felt no compulsion to do any more reviews on EL3N. I did give some impressions here and there but I was quite reluctant to promote it any further. However I'm glad both you and TJ heard it and love it. As with all things audio, there will be preferences. However I know that this is end game for me with 6xEL3N. I have found my audio nirvana with Elise and T1 and these tubes.
 
Now to test out those Bose mini monitors when they arrive ... probably will miss my plane trying to catch it on the runway.
 
ps... if anyone can surpass Harry Pearson, you can. 

 

[hypnos1]

Hi all fellow Elise owners - and would-be owners!
 
Thanks for not calling me a turncoat after my last edict...was trying to bring just a little 'restraint' for those either new or relatively new to the game - it's only too easy to get 'carried away' in this hobby of ours, lol!....just ask our better halves!!

...
 
I'd be the last to deny people the joy and fascination that can be had, and that most of us have been enjoying for a good while now - and which has indeed brought with it some fascinating discoveries...the thanks for which I must thank you @pctazhp, @UntilThen, @JazzVinyl, @mordy (and others)

. And we certainly have managed to give folks a very wide choice of tubes with which to experiment, and hopefully enough majority agreement to get a reasonable idea on which to base one's expenditure, lol....but mordy, I do sometimes wonder whether "if good is good, isn't better better" can lead some folks into unnecessary territory?!!

...'tis a fine line indeed, sometimes...

...and can easily draw us into @MIKELAP's wonderful " IT NEVER ENDS" land, lol!!!

. (I'm still not absolutely sure I've broken free from his mantra!

)...
 
Anyway, I wish everyone the very best in their own journeys, with Elise as a wonderful companion. And hope all experience the level of joy and amazement with her that I still find hard to believe...

....CHEERS EVERYONE!.....

 
ps. @DecentLevi...thanks for your mammoth effort in that compilation....WELL DONE!!...a definite one to be listed on my first post - along with all the others I should be able to get around to listing very soon now...(hopefully!).