Feliks-Audio ELISE...New thread.

[UntilThen]

Things were simpler back then. Music's beautiful and tubes are much cheaper. Why don't they have songs like this anymore or NOS tubes for $5.
 

 

[Suuup]

Hey guys, I'm trying to see if the EL3N would be compatible with another amp I own, since it's also compatible with 6SN7. Does anybody know if the EL is a single or dual triode internally? Probably Lord Raven would know since he broke one apart. thanks in advance...

EL3N is a pentode. When you use the adapters, it's a triode strapped pentode, so it works as a single triode.

 

[JazzVinyl]

I'm on a roll..got this
(( Dave Brubeck's Greatest Hits ))

Nice Brubeck!

The sax player, Paul Desmond, wrote "Take Five" which was a big hit. When he died he left all future royalties for the song to the American Red Cross organization, who has acknowledged getting hundreds of thousands in royalty checks...

 

[JazzVinyl]

Things were simpler back then. Music's beautiful and tubes are much cheaper. Why don't they have songs like this anymore or NOS tubes for $5.

Bread was soooooo good! We play them often and that group: "America"...

The LP's have KILLER sound quality!

Don't get Mordy started on $5,00 tubes

I live a Bass Clarinet as a lead Jazz instrument: Check out these two cats:

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xF0adG2PPv8[/VIDEO]

 

[hypnos1]

  H1, I'd be VERY surprised if the GEC 6AS7G gets knocked off it's perch. 

 It's not the holy grail of power tubes for nothing. 
 
I didn't think C3G best 5998 either but from my short listening session with the C3G, I find that it came very close to the 5998. So I've a lot more observations to do over an extended period of time...especially since you say that the EL3Ns will shine more with time. 
 
Having said that, initial impressions have always been quite accurate from my own experience but sound will certainly change with burn in of tubes.

 
Well UT (and @JazzVinyl), have just put the GECs back in and...no contest!!...thank goodness, lol!  And it's not because I'm hopelessly in love with them, either!

- I am now firmly convinced of the "Holy Grail" hype...this is not some dirty PR/Marketing/speculator ploy! Its combination with Elise, EL3N and T1s is truly sprinkled with a very generous amount of Fairy Dust indeed - no doubt whatsoever about it!

...I think I can safely say they are never gonna get mounted on the wall, LOL!!!

 
This has confirmed my decision to finish with tube rolling...this combination is truly giving me everything I ever dreamt of from a headphone amp (not to mention preamp!). I shall now leave further experimentation to you young'uns, lol!...I really do hope you enjoy the journey half as much as I have this past couple of years, and more...I can finally sit back  - restfully! - and simply enjoy my backlog of music to the full, rather than snippets for 'testing' purposes.. .
 
I do, however, look forward to seeing how things go from now...I'm sure there are more revelations to come...GOOD LUCK y'all!..

 

 

[JazzVinyl]

Well UT (and @JazzVinyl
), have just put the GECs back in and...no contest!!...thank goodness, lol!  And it's not because I'm hopelessly in love with them, either! :wink_face: - I am now firmly convinced of the "Holy Grail" hype...this is not some dirty PR/Marketing/speculator ploy! Its combination with Elise, EL3N and T1s is truly sprinkled with a very generous amount of Fairy Dust indeed - no doubt whatsoever about it! ...I think I can safely say they are never gonna get mounted on the wall, LOL!!!

This has confirmed my decision to finish with tube rolling...this combination is truly giving me everything I ever dreamt of from a headphone amp (not to mention preamp!). I shall now leave further experimentation to you young'uns, lol!...I really do hope you enjoy the journey half as much as I have this past couple of years, and more...I can finally sit back  - restfully! - and simply enjoy my backlog of music to the full, rather than snippets for 'testing' purposes.. .

I do, however, look forward to seeing how things go from now...I'm sure there are more revelations to come...GOOD LUCK y'all!..  

I hear you, H1!!!

I didn't actually expect anything else to be able to knock the GEC's off their perch and am actually glad it didn't.

I think the EL3N/5998 combo may be a tad TOO much bass and it a bit too dark for both my 'phones. So, I will stay with FDD20 as powers for a while.

Who knows, perhaps another big revelation is in store for non T1 owners, down the road

Cheers to you!

 

[mordy]

Slim pickings today - no $5000.00 tubes, but I remember a pair of Western Electric 300B tubes going for $13,000.00 not so long ago.
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Psvane-WE212C-Vacuum-Tubes-Replica-WE212-Brand-New-/321905218687?hash=item4af30bd47f:g:bysAAOSwwbdWMNqd
 
A pair of these are only $3099.00.
 
Last November a pair of these below went for $6000.00
 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Matched-Pair-Western-Electric-252A-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-Date-/161903779823?hash=item25b2379fef:g:B-QAAOSwnH1WXSVu
 

 
Stay tuned for $5.00 Humphrey tubes.....
 
About unusual tube combinations:
 
Learned from my Little Dot days to think outside the box, and now I see that it payed off with great sounding combinations of tubes that the cognoscenti wouldn't even think of trying, or would say that it cannot work...
 
And while we are on unusual topics, here is a 5K amp that had something to do with the US nuclear program - the info is in the post.
 

 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-amplifier-rare-military-vacuum-tube-6v6-amp-atomic-bomb-/221723293719?hash=item339fbcf817:g:riIAAOSwv0tVEC70
 
 
 
 

 

 

[hypnos1]

I hear you, H1!!!

I didn't actually expect anything else to be able to knock the GEC's off their perch and am actually glad it didn't.

I think the EL3N/5998 combo may be a tad TOO much bass and it a bit too dark for both my 'phones. So, I will stay with FDD20 as powers for a while.

Who knows, perhaps another big revelation is in store for non T1 owners, down the road

Cheers to you!

 
Yo JV...had a sneaky feeling the 5998s just might need T1-style signature to really appeal ...don't you have the Chathams at all? Or else just go for a pair of T1s and be done with it, lol!

 
And I too hope for further revelations...they do seem to keep coming!!

 
And cheers to you too!...and everyone!! 

 
 
ps.  Folks - don't forget the 5998 has different spec to the 6AS7G/6080, so could explain some 'mismatching' distortions, lol!

 

[JazzVinyl]

Yo JV...had a sneaky feeling the 5998s just might need T1-style signature to really appeal ...don't you have the Chathams at all? Or else just go for a pair of T1s and be done with it, lol! :wink_face:

And I too hope for further revelations...they do seem to keep coming!!

And cheers to you too!...and everyone!!   

ps.  Folks - don't forget the 5998 has different spec to the 6AS7G/6080, so could explain some 'mismatching' distortions, lol!

Hello H1

No sir, the C3gS as powers had a tad bit of hum (as you reported) and so much bass that they were a hairs' whisper away from distorting.

The EL3N/5998 have HUGE TREMENDOUS GIGANTIC BASS...not distorted at all. But perhaps so much bass, that it masks other details.

I have ONE Chatham (not a pair) and I have a fine pair of 1970 Mullard 6080's, the Parts Express 6AS7GA's and several pair of RCA 6AS7G's.

But I like the FDD20's as powers, they work just fine in that roll. I have zero complaints.

Will stay EL3N/FDD20 (as powers) for a few weeks then compare again to 5998 or 6080's as powers.

I hear nothing wrong at all, using FDD20 as Power tubes.

Cheers!!

 

[hypnos1]

  D@rn internet. I've missed @UTs T1 odyssey, @H1 lying about his age (adding a few years to get free travel? No way are you older than me!), and a lot of fun with adapters... Mine are ordered BTW...and loads more, no doubt. Back again in an hour (which is how long it's taking head-fi to load ATM).
BTW, @LR, I have HD600s, too. I use a "slappa" hard case - which is much better than it sounds. No way will I be parting with my HD600s, even if I my T1 fund ever manages to reach it's target.

 
Hi tjw...hope you're getting your connection sorted - you've plenty to catch up on, lol!...EL3Ns and adapters sorted also, I trust?!...and beg, steal or borrow to get that T1 fund completed - you know you must, lol!!

...(we're a growing club now!

).
 
ps....told you I was 'sprightly'...(but don't feel it sometimes, alas!!

).

 

[UntilThen]

Slept through like a lamb after 2 days of listening to EL3N. Last night, being dragged to watch 'The Revenant' was a life saver for me but the film was gory. Whilst my ears got rested from headphones bliss, my eyes didn't. 

 
Anyhoo I started this morning, wondering what tubes combo I'd try. Saw JV's post on using FDD20s as power tubes so I thought why not, let's try that. True enough, just as the C3G surprised me, so did the FDD20 as powers. It does seem that with EL3N in the driver's seat, most tubes sound good as powers. I still particularly like the C3G as powers because the sound is so clean and revealing, it's uncanny.
 
H1, you're right. 5998 is unlike your usual 6AS7G and 6080 as it's gain is much higher. Not only that, it does sound a whole lot different. Checking my old notes, I wrote that on 1st listen, the 5998 sounded alive across the whole FR. However, coming from the 6AS7G, it's the bass that stands out when listening with the 5998. I do like them very much, despite their high price. Paired with the right driver and headphone, they have a magic other power tubes don't have.
 
I was trying to characterise EL3N sound and what comes to mind is energy. I also thought that the whole frequency range sounded very linear and pleasing. It's interesting the Sakurma style amplifier that uses EL3N thought so too. Here's what the author wrote..
 
When operated correctly these valves have a very energetic sound which is very pleasing for almost all music varieties. 
 
and
 
When operated at the datasheets operating points, sound is energetic and seductive. Tone is very good, and both lows and highs are in good proportion.
 
Which leads me to this. Now that I know that the EL3N and adapters works as power tubes, how will four EL3N sound in Elise?...that is, in Sakurma style, except I'm going to coin it Elise style. 

 
What is Sakurma style? Again quoting this source...
Sakuma style.
What is Sakuma style? Well if you look at the Sakuma designs, you can see that he often uses power valves as drivers. Many times the driver is the same valve as the power valve. Sakuma has some interesting designs as well, like "the window of sound" and "two point earthing method" which, according to him, directy translates to good sound quality. Supposedly authority in sound is determined by the energy of the heater, be it directly or inderctly heated valves. Maybe if we look at that aspect, high energy on the heater means most certainly a power valve which has a low plate impedance. So to go Sakuma style maybe EL3N driving EL3N might improve sound quality?

Now I've found that using EL3N as power tube results in lower gain but just by one notch on my volume knob. So instead of 10 o'clock, I now have to increase to 11 o'clock, which is still ok. 

Like you H1 and JV, I too felt that we've reach the ultimate for Elise with getting the best sound in tube rolling. There could be better but I doubt. Having reach this level of SQ, I can contentedly sit back and just enjoy the music, instead of being a compulsive tube roller. However, as I have ordered another pair of EL3N adapters, that will be my last experiment...using EL3N as drivers and as powers.

Cheers to all who get to sample Elise with these tubes. Now that I have heard the Beyer T1 with it, I can also say affirmatively that this setup is an ideal and winning combination. That said, I believe there are many headphones that will sound just as marvellous with this setup. The choice of headphone depends on you as an individual. 

 

[hypnos1]

Hello H1

No sir, the C3gS as powers had a tad bit of hum (as you reported) and so much bass that they were a hairs' whisper away from distorting.

The EL3N/5998 have HUGE TREMENDOUS GIGANTIC BASS...not distorted at all. But perhaps so much bass, that it masks other details.

I have ONE Chatham (not a pair) and I have a fine pair of 1970 Mullard 6080's, the Parts Express 6AS7GA's and several pair of RCA 6AS7G's.

But I like the FDD20's as powers, they work just fine in that roll. I have zero complaints.

Will stay EL3N/FDD20 (as powers) for a few weeks then compare again to 5998 or 6080's as powers.

I hear nothing wrong at all, using FDD20 as Power tubes.

Cheers!!

 
That should be very interesting, JV...and it sure is great news that the EL3Ns pair well with the 5998s - as UT has also found. And good news also about FDD20s as powers - who'd have thought, lol?!
 
But, of course, you've simply got to get a second Chatham...like yesterday, lol!!

...and then...heh heh...THE GECs!!!

...(you know you want to...

...).

 

[hypnos1]

  Slept through like a lamb after 2 days of listening to EL3N. Last night, being dragged to watch 'The Revenant' was a life saver for me but the film was gory. Whilst my ears got rested from headphones bliss, my eyes didn't. 

 
Anyhoo I started this morning, wondering what tubes combo I'd try. Saw JV's post on using FDD20s as power tubes so I thought why not, let's try that. True enough, just as the C3G surprised me, so did the FDD20 as powers. It does seem that with EL3N in the driver's seat, most tubes sound good as powers. I still particularly like the C3G as powers because the sound is so clean and revealing, it's uncanny.
 
H1, you're right. 5998 is unlike your usual 6AS7G and 6080 as it's gain is much higher. Not only that, it does sound a whole lot different. Checking my old notes, I wrote that on 1st listen, the 5998 sounded alive across the whole FR. However, coming from the 6AS7G, it's the bass that stands out when listening with the 5998. I do like them very much, despite their high price. Paired with the right driver and headphone, they have a magic other power tubes don't have.
 
I was trying to characterise EL3N sound and what comes to mind is energy. I also thought that the whole frequency range sounded very linear and pleasing. It's interesting the Sakurma style amplifier that uses EL3N thought so too. Here's what the author wrote..
 
When operated correctly these valves have a very energetic sound which is very pleasing for almost all music varieties. 
 
and
 
When operated at the datasheets operating points, sound is energetic and seductive. Tone is very good, and both lows and highs are in good proportion.
 
Which leads me to this. Now that I know that the EL3N and adapters works as power tubes, how will four EL3N sound in Elise?...that is, in Sakurma style, except I'm going to coin it Elise style. 

 
What is Sakurma style? Again quoting this source...
Sakuma style.
What is Sakuma style? Well if you look at the Sakuma designs, you can see that he often uses power valves as drivers. Many times the driver is the same valve as the power valve. Sakuma has some interesting designs as well, like "the window of sound" and "two point earthing method" which, according to him, directy translates to good sound quality. Supposedly authority in sound is determined by the energy of the heater, be it directly or inderctly heated valves. Maybe if we look at that aspect, high energy on the heater means most certainly a power valve which has a low plate impedance. So to go Sakuma style maybe EL3N driving EL3N might improve sound quality?

Now I've found that using EL3N as power tube results in lower gain but just by one notch on my volume knob. So instead of 10 o'clock, I now have to increase to 11 o'clock, which is still ok. 

Like you H1 and JV, I too felt that we've reach the ultimate for Elise with getting the best sound in tube rolling. There could be better but I doubt. Having reach this level of SQ, I can contentedly sit back and just enjoy the music, instead of being a compulsive tube roller. However, as I have ordered another pair of EL3N adapters, that will be my last experiment...using EL3N as drivers and as powers.

Cheers to all who get to sample Elise with these tubes. Now that I have heard the Beyer T1 with it, I can also say affirmatively that this setup is an ideal and winning combination. That said, I believe there are many headphones that will sound just as marvellous with this setup. The choice of headphone depends on you as an individual. 

 
4x EL3Ns will surely be the ultimate test indeed, UT...perhaps, lol!!

...whatever, it'll be mighty interesting. Let's just hope those darn' adapters don't take so long this time!!

 
CHEERS!

 

[hypnos1]

Hey @UntilThen, I've just realised...I do in fact have three EL3Ns adapted - should I pop one in next to the GEC and see what happens, lol?

...probably far too different in power output to be of any real use for assessment purposes though!

 

[UntilThen]

   
4x EL3Ns will surely be the ultimate test indeed, UT...perhaps, lol!!

...whatever, it'll be mighty interesting. Let's just hope those darn' adapters don't take so long this time!!

 
CHEERS!

Well H1, if I'm crazy enough (just before Shane rides off into the sunset), I might also try four EL3Ns as power tubes and two EL3N as drivers, making it a SIX.
 
I just knew why I have 6 EL3Ns....