ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |
May 4, 2016 at 10:00 PM Post #7,966 of 16,326
Hi everyone new to the site

I have the jhaudio angie's and I am using the sony zx2, but I feel it lack some power to drive my iem 

Someone recommended to me the Dp-X1

What is your take on this, and if possible can someone compare the zx2 to the DP-X1, also how is the bass on DP-x1?

Cheers


Dap and Angie are a great pairing. Angie is a pretty neutral phones that grabs great, deep bass when it's in the recording which this dap does well. However this dap isn't going to inject bass. Maybe if you EQ, but I have not messed with that.
 
May 4, 2016 at 10:05 PM Post #7,967 of 16,326
This is a relatively new player. As with most things these days it'll take a few rounds of firmware updates to iron things out. So few things things these days are perfect out of the box. Android is a huge win for this dap.
 
May 4, 2016 at 10:17 PM Post #7,968 of 16,326
When I wrote that it was actually referring to the ESS DAC/AMP as the "internal" one (as opposed to the Mojo I'd also been using), since I assumed that'd be the native internal output path even for third party players.

As I've done more research there is mounting suspicion that the third-party players are actually winding up using the DAC that is present on the main SoC, and not the ESS parts, and that that is the cause of the distortion with those players and low-level passages in the music.  If so that should be easy for Onkyo to fix ... they just have to do it! :wink:

If 3rd party player is not using the ESS dac/amp, I think I will give it up..........
 
May 4, 2016 at 10:33 PM Post #7,970 of 16,326
  Am I correct in understanding that the DP-X1 doesn't ship with a case? What is everyone doing with regards to a case or some sort of protection? Getting the DPA-PUX1? If so, where are you purchasing it?


No case included. Only options so far are PUX1 or Dignis or DIY.
 
May 4, 2016 at 11:15 PM Post #7,971 of 16,326
Hi Torq,
In the part of 3rd party player, the words "internal dac and amp" mean the system chips instead of the ESS DAC/AMP?
Thanks!
When I wrote that it was actually referring to the ESS DAC/AMP as the "internal" one (as opposed to the Mojo I'd also been using), since I assumed that'd be the native internal output path even for third party players.

As I've done more research there is mounting suspicion that the third-party players are actually winding up using the DAC that is present on the main SoC, and not the ESS parts, and that that is the cause of the distortion with those players and low-level passages in the music.  If so that should be easy for Onkyo to fix ... they just have to do it! :wink:
If 3rd party player is not using the ESS dac/amp, I think I will give it up..........


This has been covered.......

The SoC used in the DP-X1 has no way of converting Digital to analogue. It's not an all in one audio/SoC chip. The possibility of third party apps not bypassing the Android audio limitations or Android's up-sampling is very high. The possibility of third party apps not using all the audio filtering features of the ESS DAC is also a possibility.

BUT

All audio coming out of the DP-X1 will go through the internal DAC and amp unless using USB OTG to output the digital stream to an outboard DAC. The SoC used in the DP-X1 simply can not convert a digital bitstream to analogue for the amplifier output.
 
May 4, 2016 at 11:36 PM Post #7,972 of 16,326
  Hi everyone new to the site
 
I have the jhaudio angie's and I am using the sony zx2, but I feel it lack some power to drive my iem 
 
Someone recommended to me the Dp-X1
 
What is your take on this, and if possible can someone compare the zx2 to the DP-X1, also how is the bass on DP-x1?
 
Cheers

 
 
[warning: long post]
 
DPX1 v. ZX2 Review
 
I’ve owned both the ZX2 and DPX1 and spent some time A/Bing them. I compared the best that each had to offer, which, for me, meant the TRRS output from both. There are a lot of minor differences, and I can get a few of them out of the way. The DPX1 runs a newer version of Android (5.1.1) than the ZX2, and the update is welcome. The Sony has the better UI, but the Android portion is a little more polished on the DPX1 and, along with its processor, everything is a bit snappier than on the older ZX2. Battery life is—a lot—longer on the ZX2, by ~2-3 times. Functionally, this means having to mind power on the DPX1, whereas you just don’t think about it much on the ZX2. As for storage, the ZX2 has 128Gb internal compared to the paltry 32Gb you get with the DPX1. The DPX1 has a better larger screen. These and other sundry differences register when comparing the two, but none of them really sway you to one or the other. Here are four important differences for me:
 
1) Form Factor: This goes to the ZX2. Sony has always known how to do design, and it’s nice to have an attractive, original aesthetic that isn’t branded with an apple. A DAP is arguably a little more personal than a big desktop amp. From the moment you open the Sony box you want to make this your little portable audio pal. The ZX2 is not only beautiful to behold, it’s also wonderful to hold. It’s a good size with pleasing dimensions and feels really good in the hand. It’s heavier than the DPX1 but the weight doesn’t make it cumbersome but rather reassuring. It feels solid, and with the leather back, you can just leave it on a table or slip it into a pocket. It’s what you want a DAP/DAC/Amp to be: just grab and go. 
 
The DPX1’s form factor can be summed up in one word: yuck. It’s large and gawky, and its lightness, rather than being welcome, makes it feel fragile, slight and slippery. The edges are all sharp and pointy. While not likely to cut your hand, it never feels comfortable however you shift it around. Aesthetically, it’s just a rectangular box with some arbitrary curves carved around a volume knob that turns easily by accident. I never appreciated the Sony’s up/down volume buttons so much as when I had to disable the DPX1’s volume knob (for inactive screen). In fact, all the buttons on the Sony fit its design, are nicely recessed, and sized well to be depressed with a thumb. There are also little “braille” markers so you can do it by feel. All the buttons on the DPX1 fit its design too, but again, the unified design aesthetic is: yuck. The buttons are stock, small, and feel cheap. (This is a lot to say about form factor, but this is the reason, why one reviewer didn’t even give the Onkyo a listen.) Critically: as much thoughtfulness as went into the ZX2, the design of the DPX1 is thoughtless. Charitably:  if this was not laziness, it was because all the R&D finances went into the sound quality….
 
2) The DAC section: Okay, this is where you start to forgive everything above. You listen to it (reminder: in balanced mode) and you start to shift your hold on the casing some more and think to yourself, “maybe I can live with this thing.” The memory of your little Sony buddy starts getting muddy because the DPX1’s dual ES9018s (mobile) are simply decoding more information. There is more detail, layering, imaging, spatial cues, etc. Everything that you want the digital section to do, the Onkyo does better. In our audiophile world, things move quick, and the performance of the ZX2 and the price of the AK’s are getting dated by this new generation of DPX1, Fiio X7, and Questyle QP1R. Sorry, just like form factor, to me, this is no contest, this belongs to the DPX1.
 
3) The amp section is somewhat split. For the ZX2, the Oscon caps, and whatever else they crammed into that lower rear bulge of the unit, makes for punchy dynamic swings on the micro and macro level. If you like a more aggressive sound to “rock out” to, the Sony will pound in your face that it’s still alive and kicking. If you listen more to acoustic, jazz, classical, etc. and want a more refined and relaxed presentation, the Onkyo is smooth and soothing. 
 
In the end, I would still give this to the DPX1 because, preferences aside, it also has more overall power and the balanced drive renders a superior soundstage (dimensions and imaging). The ZX2’s separated ground channels just can’t compete here. i don’t want to make too much of this as great results are designed with single-ended outputs, but as far as soundstage, a true balanced configuration has a lot of advantages. The Onkyo exploits them in their implementation. Also, combined with the dual DAC’s SNR, the DPX1 also has a much blacker background. You could say the ZX2 is just more rock and roll “hiss” and vinegar, and I wouldn’t argue that, but the higher noise floor cuts into the greater dynamic headroom of the ZX2. 
 
4) Tonal presentation is a wash as it’s totally dependent on what you’re pairing it with. The ZX2 is warmer with a much bigger bottom end. The DPX1 is leaner from the bottom up through the mids with more high end. I would say that the Onkyo is by no means thin or sterile, it’s actually pretty sweet and lush, but that is with my Tralucent Ref. 1 Too + Uber Too cable. That IEM is already on the thick side of neutral with a huge low end. As far as tonal spectrum goes, if I were using a “leaner,” “cleaner” phone I would want to compliment it with the ZX2’s bass heavy “analog” sonic signature.
 
Finally, if you throw cost/value into the list of important factors I do think that the DPX1 bests the ZX2 overall. Even if you don’t, I would say that the DPX1 is a generation ahead of the ZX2 in sound quality.  I just sold my much loved ZX2, which pained me no small amount. I also ordered a Dignis case just so I don’t resent it every time I hold the unit after the ZX2. For me, I’m committed to a fully open Android platform so the real contest will be with the Fiio X7 once the balanced module is released. I know this was long, but I wanted to get it down for anyone who wants to read, while the A/B was still fresh in my mind. Hope it helps.
 
May 4, 2016 at 11:37 PM Post #7,973 of 16,326
 
It is a shame that I had to return it.  I was really excited for the DPX1 as there's nothing else out there right now that can do everything it can do (at least not with dual card slots).  Hopefully Onkyo will fix the software issues and I can give it another go in a while.
 
The iBasso DX200 was really interesting ... right up until it was posted that it'd be using Android as its OS.  Unless iBasso are completely re-writing the audio stack so that it'll work, without forced re-sampling, with external DACs (hell, even with the internal one and standard music clients) then, for me, that'll kill the deal.  But if they can pull that off, I'd definitely be in for one.

I'm unclear under what circumstances that Android uses forced upsampling?
 
May 5, 2016 at 12:21 AM Post #7,974 of 16,326
This has been covered.......

The SoC used in the DP-X1 has no way of converting Digital to analogue. It's not an all in one audio/SoC chip. The possibility of third party apps not bypassing the Android audio limitations or Android's up-sampling is very high. The possibility of third party apps not using all the audio filtering features of the ESS DAC is also a possibility.

BUT

All audio coming out of the DP-X1 will go through the internal DAC and amp unless using USB OTG to output the digital stream to an outboard DAC. The SoC used in the DP-X1 simply can not convert a digital bitstream to analogue for the amplifier output.


That's good to know; I'd not looked up the specifics of the SoC in question.

Hopefully the net result is that the distortion issue with third party players can be resolved with a software update (either to the player itself, or the apps in question).
 
May 5, 2016 at 12:46 AM Post #7,975 of 16,326
This has been covered.......

The SoC used in the DP-X1 has no way of converting Digital to analogue. It's not an all in one audio/SoC chip. The possibility of third party apps not bypassing the Android audio limitations or Android's up-sampling is very high. The possibility of third party apps not using all the audio filtering features of the ESS DAC is also a possibility.

BUT

All audio coming out of the DP-X1 will go through the internal DAC and amp unless using USB OTG to output the digital stream to an outboard DAC. The SoC used in the DP-X1 simply can not convert a digital bitstream to analogue for the amplifier output.

Thanks for the information RELIC!
At least now I can pray for an update to solve this problem. Is it the same with the XDP100R?
 
May 5, 2016 at 12:56 AM Post #7,976 of 16,326
Thanks for the information RELIC!
At least now I can pray for an update to solve this problem. Is it the same with the XDP100R?


I imagine it would be, but I haven't looked in to it specifically. :wink:
 
May 5, 2016 at 1:58 AM Post #7,979 of 16,326
Thank you for the confirmation, as frustrating as it is! The only way to order a Dignis case at the moment is through their site, and they are based in Korea? They do look nice, but I wonder what the lead time is for receiving one.


I've ordered a few cases from Dignis. They ship fast and delivery time to me (in USA) has been 4 to 10 days, depending on Customs delay time.
 
May 5, 2016 at 2:00 AM Post #7,980 of 16,326
I have pretty much decided to go ahead with the Onkyo DP-X1. It came down to it and the Pioneer XDP-100R and given that once I import either player the price will be within ~$20 and the DP-X1 has more growth opportunities it seemed like the better choice.
 
With that settled, I could use some advice on three related items I will need to purchase. The first is a portable external battery charger; are there any particular brands that people would recommend? More specifically, what are the voltage and amperage requirements for the DP-X1?
 
Second question. I would like to get a pair of relatively inexpensive balanced earphone to use while on the go to see what I think of a balanced setup. In particular I'm thinking of when I'm traveling so perhaps the smaller and lighter size of an IEM would be the better choice for using on a plane, as would be something wired. I'd like to keep it to less than $100 US and I wear glasses so they would need to work with them. Any suggestions? What adaptor cable(s) will I need for a balanced setup?
 
Lastly, how are you guys connecting your DP-X1s while in your cars? Wired aux in, or Bluetooth? Is wi-fi even an in-car option yet?
 
Thank you for your help!
 

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