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Sony Xperia Z5 Range - Audio Quality
Oct 8, 2015 at 7:04 PM Post #181 of 407
seesax said:
  I guess I'm going to order the Z5C as well since the prices are pretty good here in the US on eBay ($591 currently). I'll test it against my S6 Edge, iPhone 6s and whatever else I can dig out of the drawer, but I'm not up to the audiophile level to provide anything useful :)
 
-Collin-
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Do report back please!
 
Oct 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM Post #183 of 407
elektron said:
   
What is your source for this?  The Bluetooth used today is not your parents' Bluetooth from the early 90s.  It is possible to transmit lossless audio over Bluetooth, and LDAC can transmit up to 990 kbps.
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The link you used is for APTX.  Are you saying that LDAC is APTX lossless?  Sony has a poor record when it comes to compression systems: ATRAC turned out to be AC2 from Dolby, and when they found out, they had a field day with the lawyers, and every MiniDisc player had to have "DD is a licensed .... on the back".  Cheeky.
 
APTX lossless is NEAR lossless when the there is a data rate limit such as when it is used on Bluetooth.  Most bluetooth only has 384kbps APTX, so it is not very near lossless.  990kbps is not enough for 24bit or >48kHz so even LDAC is not lossless in this situation, but it could manage Red Book/CD quality, which is commendable.  Looking at the marketing blurb, where they claim effectively lossless, I imagine they are doing something like MQA from Meridian, where they throw away what is generally used by music above 20kHz.  As most phones are fixed at 48kHz I agree there will be many situations where LDAC is an improvement over a bad DAC in a phone.  But the Z3+ onwards is multiple sample rate up to 192kHz, and measures OK unloaded.
 
Bluetooth needs improving, so well done Sony.  I would rather have a good DAC, good amp, and wired into my choice of headphones. The pity is it seems Sony skimped on amp, and throttled the output level.  We will see.
 
Oct 9, 2015 at 11:56 PM Post #186 of 407
shubham bassist said:
i dont think these things are real becoz my own friend has Z2 and he dropped it many times but still no scratch! no crack! (only fingerprints are there!)
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I think that's the point he's making - that he's been reviewing their phones since the Sony Ericsson days and also found that earlier Xperia models could take a fair bit of abuse.  Then the Z3 had the infamous self-cracking screen problems, which may (or may not) have been fixed in the Z5, and a new issue of a self-cracking rear glass may have been introduced?  This could only be an isolated incident but I'd probably wait for a few weeks to see whether this has any substance to it.
 
Oct 10, 2015 at 12:32 AM Post #187 of 407
jagwap said:
 
The link you used is for APTX.  Are you saying that LDAC is APTX lossless?  
Click to expand...

 
I provided the link in response to your statement about bluetooth not being able to do lossless - it clearly had that ability even before LDAC.  AptX is a lossless formart as much as FLAC is one.  Yes, both use some compression but it doesn't stop FLAC from being the commonly used archival format for Redbook CDs.
 
LDAC ups the stakes, and the only reason Sony calls it 'near hi-res' is because it's capable of 'only' transmitting 24-bit / 96 kHz material over bluetooth, while Sony's own definition of hi-res / HRA is 24/192.
 
As far as 990 kbps not being sufficient for hi-res - it's not just the size of the pipe but how much data you can pack into it.  If you're using two LDAC compabible devices, the material is compressed at the source device (e.g. Z5 phone) and uncompressed by the reproducing device (e.g. 1ABT headphones).  Think of the old ZIP files.
 
I happen to believe (based on numerous ABX I've done) that hi-res is nothing snake oil.  There also hasn't been a single reputable blind ABX that has found that people can tell the difference between Redbook and hi-res.  I refused to believe this at first but have now accepted this as a blessing that will have actually saved me money in the long run.
 
The reason I'm still interested in LDAC is because I think a bigger wireless pipe can still make a difference to non hi-res music.
 
I agree that bluetooth is definitely not perfect.  I've been doing the bluetooth thing for years now, but the best wireless headphones I've heard are still my Sennheiser RS180 that use the proprietary KLEER protocol as opposed to RF or bluetooth.  Granted they have an open design, but I can't help but think that bluetooth still has some ways to go every time I put these on.
 
Oct 10, 2015 at 12:42 AM Post #188 of 407
elektron said:
I provided the link in response to your statement about bluetooth not being able to do lossless - it clearly had that ability even before LDAC.  AptX is a lossless formart as much as FLAC is one.  Yes, both use some compression but it doesn't stop FLAC from being the commonly used archival format for Redbook CDs.

LDAC ups the stakes, and the only reason Sony calls it 'near hi-res' is because it's capable of 'only' transmitting 24-bit / 96 kHz material over bluetooth, while Sony's own definition of hi-res / HRA is 24/192.

As far as 990 kbps not being sufficient for hi-res - it's not just the size of the pipe but how much data you can pack into it.  If you're using two LDAC compabible devices, the material is compressed at the source device (e.g. Z5 phone) and uncompressed by the reproducing device (e.g. 1ABT headphones).  Think of the old ZIP files.

I happen to believe (based on numerous ABX I've done) that hi-res is nothing snake oil.  There also hasn't been a single reputable blind ABX that has found that people can tell the difference between Redbook and hi-res
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APTX through bluetooth is lossy. There is a lossless APTX but this is for other links than bluetooth.

There have been numerous hirez blind tests that show it is an improvement. See the one Bob Stuart published recently. High sample rates help the timing.

Anyway, there are plenty of other places to argue the subtlies.

Im hoping my Z5 arrives this weekend (keeping things on subject)
 
Oct 12, 2015 at 12:01 AM Post #191 of 407
tordfuglstad said:
  How are the overall sound-quality?
Louder than the Z3?
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I have just measured the unloaded output: it is 0.375V rms, which is about 2dB more than the Z2 I have, and I read the Z3 is the same as the Z2.
 
This little extra helps on quieter music, but to power my PM3 I really need around 1V like the iphone and HTC phones to cover the less compressed music.  I'll keep the Pono for music.
 
I have an ear infection, which has hopped from the left to the right side. During a few hours of clarity, it sounded pretty good, but I'll refrain from doing a review until the antibiotics work.
 
Oct 15, 2015 at 12:12 PM Post #192 of 407
I haven't had time to test this phone against my others, so no comparison as of yet. However, allow me to vent for a minute. 
 
Some things Sony does really puzzle me and it's rather frustrating. One is completely ignoring that their phones have some of the lowest headphone volume output on the market. I get that the EU regulates this to a degree and some iPhones are in-turn limited on volume. But what about the rest of the world? The volume on this is disappointingly low. It's okay for most IEMs, but cranking up the volume to 90% to have usable levels is disheartening. It stays very clean all the way to the max though. I guess this is a minor complaint because it is loud enough for me, but I know it will not be loud enough for everyone's setups. 
 
Second: their audio enhancements have zero effect on streaming music such as Tidal (which is what I use, HiFi option I guess). Samsung has figured out a way to make their effects take place "globally" in that any music streaming will reflect the audio options you have selected (EQ, TubeAmp, etc.) and while some may not find any of these useful, I actually like ClearAudio+. The only thing that works is the headphone optimization, which I don't quite understand. 
 
All that said, the phone sounds quite good. I have no complaints on the sound quality, but just wanted to mention the above points. In Sony's Lollipop update, they decided that enabling the EQ was "up to the developers" rather than having it simply work in the settings. There's a rather long thread on Sony's forums with many users complaining. 
 
To re-iterate, though, the phone sounds quite good :)
 
-Collin-
 
Oct 16, 2015 at 9:54 AM Post #194 of 407
Im going to be getting a chord mojo soon and will need a phone to go with it that can play dsd and other high quality formats.  Someone suggested I get a ZX5 but many of you are hating on the zx5.  Can the zx3 play dsd, should I get it instead of a zx5?  Is there some other phone I should get instead of either that can play hd music as well?
 
Oct 16, 2015 at 9:57 AM Post #195 of 407
whitigir said:
All of Sony stuff has always been very low in power output....hell even their Walkman NW-ZX2 is a feather against a bird lol
Click to expand...

 
Could it be that Sony's HP's like f.e. MDR-1A are super efficient te drive and thus no need for higher voltage outputs on Sony phone / dap / dac?
Also 10 Ohm Output impedance on most, or all, of Sony dac/amp is puzzling to me, why would they design them like that?
 
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