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Cayin N5 DAP - Product Info (Post #2), Resources (Post #3) and Discussion

Oct 18, 2015 at 1:22 PM Post #871 of 2,546
x relic x said:
Or users who are repeatedly interrupted by co-workers, wives, children, etc.
wink_face.gif
Click to expand...

 
I've reminded my co-workers and wives (oops, wife) that head/earphones = do not disturb  
wink_face.gif

 
andykong said:
Your guess on the Play/Pause situation is fairly close to the implementation. The N5 will mute the output stage when the player pause in the middle of playback, so there is a short delay when we un-mute the output stage. We didn't optimize the N5 background noise control on fast-forwarding, so yes, you can still hear the background noise when you FF or Rewind.

I think Twiser6 has put it very nicely and close to what we wanted to achieve. The fact is, we pushed the extreme to make the N5 sound good by putting in two AD712J and four BUF634 into a very compact chassis. With this amplification design, we can drive most, if not all, IEMs to satisfactory performance, including the more demanding samples. The sound signature might subject to personal preference, but in terms of technical competence, we are fairly confident we have achieved this already.

We have aware of the background noise issue and understand this is an issue we need to deal with if we aim to match well with both sensitive and demanding IEM at the same time. While we are not dead silent in all situations and with all IEMs, we want to make sure the hissing sound is not going to interference with "normal listening" with most, if not all, IEMs. So if you are looking for it, yes, you can find the hissing background noise with some IEM at certain operation condition (likely not during music playback), but if you are still having background noise problem with N5 during regular playback, drop us a line and tell us the details of your IEMs, we'll try out best to optimize the player for the best benefit of our users.

Last but not least, when you are using a 3.5mm non-balanced IEM with N5, only two out of four headphone amplifier chips (BUF634) are loaded, that explain why background noise tends to be more audible with 2.5mm balanced headphone.
Click to expand...

 
Thanks for the explanation, Andy. Makes sense.
 
uncle e1 said:
  balanced!
 
have a small but irritating problem with the seriously lack of grip while using the scroll wheel. 
 
Cayin seriously need to look into a quick fix to the an otherwise really stellar player at this price point.  maybe a little round rubber disc to attach to the wheel giving it much more grip.
Click to expand...

 
I love the N5 wheel. Yes, it's a bit stiff, but it gives a real sense of control and I find it quite accurate, especially compared to the FiiO wheels.
 
nmatheis said:
Folder Browsing + good folder organization = a good experience.

Relying on tag-based navigation = not so good in general across the DAPs I've tried.

I do scan the cards in the DAPs db so I can play all music on random for burn-in, but for general use I'm an album listener and only use Folder Browsing.
Click to expand...

 
Nested folder browsing FTW!
 
andykong said:
For example, my current folder structure is 4 levels by nature:
Level 1: Language + M/F/Group/Genre (e.g., Korea male, Hong Kong female, English Group/VA, Classical, ...)
Level 2: Artist
Level 3: Album
Level 4: Title

This sound complicated, but once you get organized and get used to the arrangement, you'll find it pretty straight forward to maintain and efficient to use.
Click to expand...

 
Organizing by genres is perhaps more effective than by alphabetical groupings. I know when I'm not sure what I want to listen to, browsing by letter is less effective than by genre and sub genre. I have my CD collection separated by genre for the same reasons.
 
So another alternative could be:
Level 1: Genre (Classical, Jazz, Rock, Dance, World, etc...)
Level 2: Sub-genre (Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Modern... Bop, Post Bop, Jazz Funk, Jazz Fusion... Alt/indie, Classic, Metal...)
Level 3: Artist
etc...
 
Oct 18, 2015 at 1:41 PM Post #872 of 2,546
andykong said:
While we probably cannot change the hardware UI of N5 at this point, but we welcome suggestion from users, so in your experience, which is the better UI design to naivete through thousands of songs or hundreds of albums? We'll have new DAP roll our or redesign our existing DAP in the future, so your suggestion might be our important asset down the road.
 
Click to expand...

 
Hi Andy, I admit that hardware can't be changed at this point, but may I make the following suggestion? Presently from what I understand, the face << and >> buttons perform the same function as the scroll wheel and move 1 one line up and down as a time. Perhaps a setting can be allowed that allows the user to pick the following function of the buttons:
 
1. Move one line up or down (current behaviour)
2. Move to previous or next letter (i.e. if current selection starts with "A", move to first item in list that starts with "B")
3. Move one page up or down (similar to how pageup and pagedown on a computer work compared to the up or down arrows)
 
Oct 18, 2015 at 6:23 PM Post #873 of 2,546
I was going to make this suggestion also. On the Questyle QP1R if you use the buttons when navigating lists they move a page at a time vs the wheel navigation which moves one item at a time. I know this can be done, and will go a looooooong way to helping users navigate their libraries. All of these Chinese DAPs sourcing the same firmware base should be able to implement this, including FiiO, Cayin, and Questyle.
 
Oct 18, 2015 at 11:53 PM Post #875 of 2,546
New Firmware for Cayin N5 is up and available, please check this out.

http://en.cayin.cn/news.asp?keys=222



[COLOR=FF00AA]I. New Functions[/COLOR]

  1. Add new feature to facilitate DSD gain compensation, the default setting is +6dB
  2. Add new feature to improve power management, when the player paused from playback for 30 minutes, system will go into a complete stop status and return to Home menu
  3. Add hibernation or “deep standby” feature and extend the standby time to 180 hours. Hibernation will activate when the player does not involve any operation for 1 minute with the exception of the following condition:
  • When the Player is connected to another device and involves either charging or data transfer through an USB connection
  • During formatting of a TF card
  • When backlight is on
  • When music is playing
  • When charging by a charger
  • During Music Library renew
  • When the player is paused (if the player paused for 30 minutes, system will go into a complete stop status and return to Home menu, if the player is idled for one more minute, the hibernation function will kick in)

You can wake up the Player from hibernation by short click at the Power button on the top (similar to reactivate the screen), insert or eject a TF card, plug in a charger or connected to another USB device.
  • In the current firmware version, hibernation will have priority over “Scheduled Power Off” and “Idle Shut Down”

[COLOR=FF00AA]II. Optimised Features[/COLOR]
  1. Major revision on power management function after detail consideration of various practical usage, extended battery life and standby hours. The optimisation of power management also resolved the hissing noise issue that some users have experienced during pause or stop after playback.
  2. Rectified Mohr-Coulomb parameters for more accurate battery capacity measurement and prediction, and resolved the problem of displaying battery capacity below 100% when the battery has been fully charged.
  3. Optimised opacity effect of theme background and dialogue box, improve visibility of instruction and operation efficiency by making it easier for user to select the appropriate menu function.
  4. Rectify the display problem of “About the Player” under “System Setup", the memory capacity is now changed to “External TF 1” and “External TF 2”
  5. Rectify the synchronisation problem happened with system theme is changed but playback menu screens will remain unaltered.
  6. Rectify the problem of ceasing playback due to file deletion, the player will now proceed to next track if the user delete the music file that is currently playing.
  7. Revise the M button function, if folder operation is activated, pressing the M button on the side panel can start a folder playback and the player will proceed to next folder when it finished playback the last song of current folder.
  8. Add Korea UI and rectify language problems of some instruction description

Cayin N5 Firmware upgrade

For the hardware to function properly, Cayin has developed the N5 firmware to become the foundation of the system functions. Cayin will issue updated N5 firmware from time to time to improve the efficiency and performance of the hardware platform. We also want to improve and optimize the features and functions of the player through subsequent firmware updates.

[COLOR=FF00AA]Attention:[/COLOR]

1. Each version of firmware might contain minor different, consumer please decide on your own accord whether you need to update the firmware of your N5 Player.

2. Under normal circumstances, firmware upgrade will not cause any damage to user information, but Cayin cannot exclude the possibility of upgrade failure due to mal-operation or any other reason. For these reasons, you might be required to format your N5 player and result in losing person data stored on the player. We strongly suggest you backup all your personal data stored on the player before you perform firmware upgrade.
3. The N5 firmware cannot be used in other product, and the firmware from other product cannot be used in N5

Firmware upgrade procedure
  1. For safety reason, please make sure the player has sufficient battery power before. Please confirm the N5 player has not less than 50% battery power beforehand, otherwise please charge up the player before you proceed to firmware upgrade.
  2. You can download the latest firmware from the Cayin website (http://en.cayin.cn/news.asp?keys=222).Decompress and copy the new N5 firmware file (n5.fw) into the root directory of a TF card (FAT32 formatted).
  3. Switch off the player, insert the TF card into the TF slot 1 of the player
  4. Hold Back button (Top right button under the screen of front panel) and Power button at the same time until the player find the firmware file and go into firmware upgrade mode. A time elapse bar will display to show the progress of the upgrade process.
  5. Player will reboot at the end of the firmware upgrade. You can verify the current firmware version number by selecting System Setting menu, under “About the Player” option, check out the “Firmware Version” detail.

[COLOR=FF00AA]Attention:[/COLOR]
  • Do not operate the machine during firmware upgrade
  • Please delete/remove the firmware file from the TF card after firmware upgrade
  • Please update your Music Library after firmware upgrade
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 18, 2015 at 11:58 PM Post #876 of 2,546
forgottenspy said:
I am not flaming, sorry if there was misunderstanding.
I am just saying it would be great if your colleagues upload v1.0 too as alternative for those who could be unsatisfied by new sound signature or pause issue.
Click to expand...


N5 firmware v1.02 is available from Cayin website now, for those who have tried out the new firmware and does not like it, you can always roll back to the original version by download this base line version for your N5.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 19, 2015 at 12:58 AM Post #877 of 2,546
That's a fairly large update! Thanks Andy.

:beerchug:
 
Oct 19, 2015 at 1:35 AM Post #878 of 2,546
dtkz said:
Hi Andy, I admit that hardware can't be changed at this point, but may I make the following suggestion? Presently from what I understand, the face << and >> buttons perform the same function as the scroll wheel and move 1 one line up and down as a time. Perhaps a setting can be allowed that allows the user to pick the following function of the buttons:

1. Move one line up or down (current behaviour)
2. Move to previous or next letter (i.e. if current selection starts with "A", move to first item in list that starts with "B")
3. Move one page up or down (similar to how pageup and pagedown on a computer work compared to the up or down arrows)
Click to expand...



x relic x said:
I was going to make this suggestion also. On the Questyle QP1R if you use the buttons when navigating lists they move a page at a time vs the wheel navigation which moves one item at a time. I know this can be done, and will go a looooooong way to helping users navigate their libraries. All of these Chinese DAPs sourcing the same firmware base should be able to implement this, including FiiO, Cayin, and Questyle.
Click to expand...



nmatheis said:
Fiio DAPs let you hold down the FFWD button to accelerate scrolling with the wheel. They also seem to use the same processor, so this could also be an option.
Click to expand...



Good suggestion indeed, will consolidate these suggestion and submit to our Engineering team for feasibility study, thanks for the constructive suggestions.

Move to previous or next letter probably won't work on Asian interface because Asian characters (e.g., Chinese, Japanese, Korean) are not alphabetical based, so we cannot design our UI around the alphabetical assumption. The Up and Down button is actually mulch-purpose right now, it will be uses as Fast Forward and Rewind of current playing file when you hold down the button at designated situation, so we need to make sure the UI operation will not be confused with existing features.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 19, 2015 at 3:11 AM Post #879 of 2,546
pinkypowers said:
It takes some re-education. You must put a good bit of pressure on the wheel to avoid slippage. This runs contrary to what we normally want to do with our electronics. But the Cayin N5 is sturdy. It can take it.
Click to expand...



hakushondaimao said:
Originally Posted by Uncle E1

balanced!

have a small but irritating problem with the seriously lack of grip while using the scroll wheel.

Cayin seriously need to look into a quick fix to the an otherwise really stellar player at this price point. maybe a little round rubber disc to attach to the wheel giving it much more grip.
Click to expand...

I love the N5 wheel. Yes, it's a bit stiff, but it gives a real sense of control and I find it quite accurate, especially compared to the FiiO wheels.
Click to expand...


From product design perspective, the turning wheel has several important requirements that need to achieve:

(1) Accuracy: must be able to let user select an option accurately in regardless he/she is moving one step in the UI, or scrolled many cycles before he/she find the option needed

(2) Instant response: the wheel must not lag behind, synchronize with the screen, and free from any form of inertia, in my opinion, the most frustrate part of turning wheel is when user stopped turning but the screen is still scrolling.

(3) Look and feel + sense of control: the wheel should still be easy to grip , comfortable to use, consistent and reliable over time.


Cayin opted for a mechanical approached in the N5 turning wheel and, in my own assessment, has achieved (1) and (2) pretty well. (3) can be a bit personal, and to certain stage affected by previous experience. I can understand a IPod user will feel awkward or uncomfortable with N5 wheel because the iPod is kind of electromagnetic, very smooth, almost effortless, so the moment they use the N5, they don't feel right. I think PinkyPowers has nailed the issue here, it is different, you need to put some pressure on the wheel when you turn, and once you get used to that, the wheel is fairly accurate and responsive.
 
Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
http://en.cayin.cn/
Oct 19, 2015 at 3:28 AM Post #880 of 2,546
I just hated the iPod scroll wheel. It never responded well to my input and had me very frustrated quite often. I guess I'm just not that electrically conductive. :tongue_smile:

I much prefer the mechanical scroll wheel approach.
 
Oct 19, 2015 at 11:51 PM Post #882 of 2,546
Did the v2.0 firware update and I find a much improved holographiic sound stage with great instrument seperation. Listening with the FiiO EX1 earphones and I am mighty impressed with this combo! Fantastic sound for the dollars invested. I suspect one would have to spend a substantial amount more money to see incremental increases in sound quality. To me, this is a match made in heaven! YMMV but I am VERY happy with this combo. I intend to buy the Shanling M2 (have the M3) and see how that stacks up against the DAP's I currently have in my stable. In the new year I may look at the FiiO X7 as I read that it is a game changing DAP for FiiO. At that point I think I will call it a day for a while. This is a sickness I tell you! Give me more DAP!!!
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 12:16 AM Post #883 of 2,546
Hello, Mr. Noob here with a question
 
Recently got my n5 and I'm enjoying it, although i have some issues with the UI.
 
My main question is:
 
I'm currently using a few headphones, one of which is the shure se215 for when i'm on the go. I can get a balanced cable for around 60$, this is my only option to listen in balanced atm. The power output of these headphones is 150 mw, and i've noticed the n5 outputs 300 mw in balanced. Is it worth it to get the balanced cable? I'm open to suggestions on other iem's, so long as theyre reasonable priced (sub $200) and have decent build quality and fit.
 
Regarding UI, i've noticed while using the player in DAC mode, if i want to change any of the audio settings, such as EQ, I have to back out of the dac mode, change the settings, then unplug the cable, restart the player, and plug the cable back in. Maybe its an issue with my computer, but i find this a bit annoying. 
 
My previous player was the j3 and i consider this an upgrade in sound. one thing i found crucial to the j3 though, was its bookmark function. I doubt my requesting this will make a difference, but i found it very convenient to be able to bookmark certain sections of audio files, and have a folder of which to easily go back to those sections. just a thought!
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 12:20 AM Post #884 of 2,546
Hi,  one more question! 
 
I really wish the DAC function could work with standard phone operating systems. However, this wouldnt be an issue for me if the function is supported on windows based phones? Someone tell me it could work this way?
 
Oct 20, 2015 at 12:39 AM Post #885 of 2,546
samk1234 said:
  Hello, Mr. Noob here with a question
 
Recently got my n5 and I'm enjoying it, although i have some issues with the UI.
 
My main question is:
 
I'm currently using a few headphones, one of which is the shure se215 for when i'm on the go. I can get a balanced cable for around 60$, this is my only option to listen in balanced atm. The power output of these headphones is 150 mw, and i've noticed the n5 outputs 300 mw in balanced. Is it worth it to get the balanced cable? I'm open to suggestions on other iem's, so long as theyre reasonable priced (sub $200) and have decent build quality and fit.
 
Regarding UI, i've noticed while using the player in DAC mode, if i want to change any of the audio settings, such as EQ, I have to back out of the dac mode, change the settings, then unplug the cable, restart the player, and plug the cable back in. Maybe its an issue with my computer, but i find this a bit annoying. 
 
My previous player was the j3 and i consider this an upgrade in sound. one thing i found crucial to the j3 though, was its bookmark function. I doubt my requesting this will make a difference, but i found it very convenient to be able to bookmark certain sections of audio files, and have a folder of which to easily go back to those sections. just a thought!
Click to expand...

 
In my opinion, SE215 is not going to benefit from balanced mode.
 
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