[saidentary]

   
This one.
 
 
Pretty sure it had the stock tubes.

OK, that's the new version.  Your experience is the first negative I'm aware of with the HE-1000 plus the MZ 2.  But that doesn't invalidate your observations.  People need to read about all  the different experiences with this combo.  I posted because for me this combo has been magical and I thought that people should know about it.  My only agenda would be that people consider auditioning this amplifier IF they're looking for a synergistic pairing with the HE-1000 at a relatively "low" price ("low" in audiophile terms anyway--$1100 is still not exactly chump change, at least for me). 

 

[wuwhere]

 
The stock tubes are really good for new made tubes. I run NOS, CV4024/12AT7 and VT99/6F8G RCA grey glass flat plate. 
 
David Berning has been around for a long time. He made one of the only preamps I know of that you could bias the tubes. I never had one as they were hard to find but he has always been ahead of the curve on his designs. 

 
I know he made at least two preamp models, TF-10 and TF-12. TF-12 was a very musical preamp with a remote control.

 

[doctorjazz]

I got the ZOTL about the same time my HEK arrived, on the recommendation of my friend DrBlue, who had had the original for a while and had been raving about it. The amp wasn't available until then, had been discontinued. It does make a nice pairing with the HEK, but I don't have 2+k headphone amps to compare it to. Have a Liquid Carbon on order, curious how they'll compare. Currently do have a Ray Samuels HR-2, find the ZOTL more open and detailed, but it's not like it makes the HR-2 unlistenable, it is a fine sounding amp, and I could live with it as well (this is a in contrast to the HEK, which has made it difficult to listen to the HE-560, the Shure 1540, the FAD Hope VI, the Koss stat, and others that made up my headphone listening up until now).

 

[rgs9200m]

Well, despite the skepticism, the HEK amped by my Rudistor RP010B is proving to be fantastic, using the Hugo as a DAC and music courtesy of Tidal. (Tidal Hifi mode.) The RP010B sounds just as the review by Markl some years back describes. Deep, very deep visceral bass, bloomy mids, sweet luscious highs, all sorts of little musical details in even the decades-old pop music recordings. All I know is what I hear from the Rudistor with the HEK, and I'm just reporting what I hear. (Note, I'm not using any Equalization or sound processing of any kind, and there is no channel mixing in the Hugo either, and it's running a full volume, so everything is pure.)
And I recommend these headphones 100%. And I'm now also a fanboy of Tidal, too. Tidal sounds awesome in Hifi mode.

 

[miceblue]

I'm using "scaling" to mean this: The headphone's sound improves commensurate with the increasing quality of upstream source material.
...
My point is this: In my (very strongly held) opinion, the HE-1000s DO "scale" well, and this is quite obvious with certain amplifiers. One such amplifier is the MicroZOTL 2; but other such amplifiers and components have also been pointed out.
...
It does seem less cumbersome to say that something "scales well," than to say it "accurately reveals the level of quality of the upstream components in a consistent manner".......

But then the logical question would be: how does one determine the "quality of the upstream components/source material" and how would you hear a "commensurate" increment? I've heard a lot of DACs and amps over the years and I still don't really see how something can "scale." Any given piece of equipment may its own characteristic sound signature. What would be an example of when a headphone wouldn't be able to reveal a particular equipment's sound, and thus does not "scale well"?

Just because the HE1000 sounds good with a particular amp doesn't necessarily mean it "scales" well. I've always considered that to be synergy between components. You can have the best amp in the world and if it doesn't sound good with a particular set of headphones, would you say that the headphones don't "scale well," or would you say the synergy between them isn't optimal? I've experienced that with a lot of headphones, from the HE-500 to the HD800. I'm sure a lot of equipment I've heard over the years is of high quality, just that I don't like particular pairings between things.

As I've mentioned before, I had the chance to hear the HE1000 on the Ragnarok. It sounded fine, but it still sounded very much like the HE1000 and I wouldn't say it sounded dramatically better (assuming the Ragnarok is of much high quality than other amps I've heard) or worse compared to other amplifiers. I'm not saying the Ragnarok sounded bad with the HE1000, just that I don't hear the "scaling" effect as it's been suggested. Were I to use a different headphone with the Ragnarok, I'm sure I'd hear the same differences in sound when compared to another amp.

 

[saidentary]

But then the logical question would be: how does one determine the "quality of the upstream components/source material" and how would you hear a "commensurate" increment? ..................

Just because the HE1000 sounds good with a particular amp doesn't necessarily mean it "scales" well. I've always considered that to be synergy between components. .............

I had the chance to hear the HE1000 on the Ragnarok. ........ I don't hear the "scaling" effect as it's been suggested. Were I to use a different headphone with the Ragnarok, I'm sure I'd hear the same differences in sound when compared to another amp.

Determining the quality of upstream components is a subjective exercise, and the assessment often varies between individuals. A more highly resolving headphone should be able to demonstrate the strengths and weaknesses of such upstream components more readily, and more audibly--to a greater degree--than a less resolving headphone.  That's what I meant by "commensurate." 
Synergy, as I understand and use the term in audio, is the audibly favorable outcome of great matching between components.  The MZ 2/HE-1000 pairing is highly synergistic, in my opinion, and in the opinion of several others with much more headphone expertise than I have.
Scaling is a term that I picked up on head-fi.  In my opinion, the more highly resolving headphones, such as the HE-1000, are more capable of conveying the increased resolution of the upstream signal than are less resolving headphones. 
 
Example:  The difference between my Denon AH D7000s and the HiFiMAN HE 1000s was less with the Oppo HA-1 than it is with the MicroZOTL 2.  I attribute that, at least in part, to "scaling" of the HE-1000s. However, it could just as well be due to greater synergy of the HE-1000s with the MicroZOTL, and the greater synergy of the AH D7000s with the Oppo HA-1. In other words, it could be that the HA-1 is a better match for the Denons, and the MZ2 is better matched for the HE 1000s, i.e., greater synergies, respectively.  So, your point about synergy is an excellent one; I will add that, in my opinion, synergy is more important than scaling in any given system.  
 
The main reason I mentioned "scaling" is because some people have said the HE-1000s don't "scale" well.  I very strongly disagree.  Saying they don't scale well implies (to me anyway) that they lack resolution and are overly forgiving of poor recordings and/or inferior upstream components; it also implies (to me anyway) that they are incapable of demonstrating the true strength of good recordings and/or superior upstream components.  I see that as an indirect way of saying the HE-1000s are not in the same league as some of the other "flagship" headphones.   Money4me247 has written about the benefits of the MacIntosh MHA-100 headphone amplifier.  Others have written about similar (scaling) effects with other "better" amplifiers. 

 

[CanadianMaestro]

 So, your point about synergy is an excellent one; I will add that, in my opinion, synergy is more important than scaling in any given system.    
 

+1 agree with you fully on synergy. With any system, actually, not just headphones. For me, especially with the "flagship" headphones, but not exclusive to them,  they sound their best when due attention is paid to achieving synergy upstream of the HP. But I also believe that "scaling" can be considered a trait that is an integral part of the "list" of attributes that one checks for when subjectively assessing synergy of a headphone system.
 
cheers

 

[doctorjazz]

You're both right (vote for me for President in 2016...an HEK in every house will be my slogan).
I think synergy doesn't get noted enough on Head Fi...in the audiophile world outside it is generally accepted that system matching is as important, or even more important, than just the 'quality' or cost of the gear. It would be possible to put well matched relatively inexpensive components that sound better than randomly thrown together megabuck gear.
As far as scaling up, the way I look at it, no gear is perfect, that is, delivers The Absolute Sound (hey, great name for a magazine ), or the sound of real live music (what that would be, how YOU define it, is a whole other discussion/rant). They are quite far from there, even the best gear. But, to use a wave for analogy, the amplitude of that wave for "less good" gear would be much greater than for better gear. The better gear is still quite far, but varies less than the lesser gear. Now, systems are only as good as there weakest link...some writer had people listen to a Pono and an iPhone through crappy ear buds (in a quick session, won't go through ask the details), they heard no difference. I can tell you it sounds MUCH better than various i devices I have. You might not hear all the goodness of, say, a Hugo, through a $20 pair of throwaway speakers. Scaling up means NOT being that bottleneck, letting better sound upstream be clearly audible. They both pay a rule in good sound (PM me campaign contributions...)

 

[CanadianMaestro]

You're both right (vote for me for President in 2016...an HEK in every house will be my slogan).
 

Sure thing!! As long as your NSA doesn't monitor the music piping thru them!

 

[CanadianMaestro]

 Now, systems are only as good as there weakest link...

very true. I see, too often, people using very expensive HPs with mis-matched, often dirt cheap portable players, and then they wonder why the HPs sound crappy for the $$ they paid for them. Or friends of mine who buy $$$ silver interconnects to use on cheap phono preamps, thinking they can "up" the performance of the preamp to levels much higher than they are at.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

You're both right (vote for me for President in 2016... (PM me campaign contributions...)

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Sure thing!! As long as your NSA doesn't monitor the music piping thru them!

If DocJazz wins the Presidency he can change the NSA's motto to, "We listen, because we can"!

 

[CanadianMaestro]

If DocJazz wins the Presidency he can change the NSA's motto to, "We listen, because we can"!

How about WC1 for VP and Director of the NSA? 

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Happy Independence Day!!!

 

[doctorjazz]

You're both right (vote for me for President in 2016... (PM me campaign contributions...)

You're hired as campaign manager!!!! Now, off to the can...