DUNU DN-2000J -- More Than Evolution?

brooko said:

Yep - that's the isolation tips. You have to really stretch them to get them on - it's not easy.

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Thanks!  As long as they will eventually fit, I'm looking forward to trying them.
Cheers!
-HK sends

Long story short, I decided to cancel my Massdrop order and take the $50 hit to get these here earlier. I received them yesterday and, after initial listening, can confirm that the detail retrieval and tuning of this IEM are very good, objectively speaking. Subjectively, I'm still debating as to whether these IEMs are too bright for me. It's not a huge deal that I have to listen to them at a lower volume than normal to tolerate the treble, but even after the sound has become comfortable to listen to...I dunno, it goes somewhat against my tastes. And that's with the Comply tips, by the way. The fact that it doesn't seem outright unnatural to me, though, is (knowing myself the way I do) a huge testament to the care with which the IEM has been tuned.
 
Anyway, there's another issue I suspect I may be running into, frankly: how much resolution is too much? I knew after hearing the Harmony 8 Pro (as part of the Custom Art tour) that it was too unforgiving of poorly mastered tracks for me, and while I'm pretty sure the 2000J doesn't cross my own personal line for this, I am starting to suspect it's closer to doing so than I'd thought. Doing it's job well, though, is of course something I can't really knock an IEM for.

idsynchrono_24 said:

 
SGS is Shotgunshane. I dunno, it's early yet, but James' impressions seem to align with Tom's in that these aren't exactly meant for high(er) volume listening. I don't listen loudly or anything, but I almost certainly listen louder than either of them, and detailed yet non fatiguing sound is a must for me, and that often necessitates neutral tuning and detail that isn't coerced through the use of strategic treble spikes. James has yet to try comply tips, but comply has never been my style. Can't stand that weird expanding sensation that they exert in my ears. 

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Fully concur with the bolded part. But to put things into perspective, the difference to the K3003 is rather slight. The 2000J are decidedly more well-behaved than e.g. the Altone200 or Samsung IG900.
 
To further explain where I'm coming from, I've been listening mostly to my modded FX1100 lately, which have become my main IEMs. Those are smoother on top than the FX850, which in turn are smoother than the K3003, which in turn are smoother than the 2000J... so there's that, lol. Yet I don't feel that the JVCs miss out detail in comparison to the K3003 and 2000J, they're just a bit less in-your-face in that regard.
 
I simply have to re-acclimate myself to TWFK treble, which I intend to do during the next few days.
 

redtwilight said:

  Only managed a brief comparison to the Havi but I concur with your observations. Highs are very detailed but also abit harsher than I'm used to. The tunings rings had quite a marked effect for me. Have you tried them?

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Not yet, but looking forward to it. Different tips and those colored rings, a lot of tuning options actually.
 

tomscy2000 said:

  Also wondering if James has tried the effect of K3003 tips on the 2000J; even though the two types of tips are similar, when the K3003's tips affixed to the 2000J, they do make the treble a little more gentle and less harsh by just a tad to my ears --- more like the K3003 in nature. The added brightness ends up coming from the psychoacoustic effect of a tighter mid-bass response, mostly. From the beginning, I've been a little baffled by their choice of silicone tips; perhaps it's that these tips help bring out midrange detail a little better, but they do tend to make the treble quite a bit less palatable.

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james444 said:

 

1. Nozzles are similar and tips are interchangeable. I prefer the slightly more bulbous K3003 tips on both IEMs.

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That said, they're not really more bulbous, just slightly different in shape and material. But they take part of the edge out of the 2000J's treble, just as you said.

james444 said:

  Fully concur with the bolded part. But to put things into perspective, the difference to the K3003 is rather slight. The 2000J are decidedly more well-behaved than e.g. the Altone200 or Samsung IG900. To further explain where I'm coming from, I've been listening mostly to my modded FX1100 lately, which have become my main IEMs. Those are smoother on top than the FX850, which in turn are smoother than the K3003, which in turn are smoother than the 2000J... so there's that, lol. Yet I don't feel that the JVCs miss out detail in comparison to the K3003 and 2000J, they're just a bit less in-your-face in that regard. I simply have to re-acclimate myself to TWFK treble, which I intend to do during the next few days.

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Yep, it took me a few days to get used to that TWFK treble as well; so many people make the Altone200 sound scary --- perhaps it's good I've never listened to them before, or else I might've made some choice comments that wouldn't be so pleasant.
 
I think I've been relatively gentle in criticism of the DN-2000J's treble because I've heard the prototypes, which were bright to the point of being borderline unlistenable. They had an even wider, expansive soundstage than the current retail version, but really were too much when it came to sibilance and harshness. In that way, I'm quite impressed they were able to tame it down to such an extent, while preserving the main goal of this earphone, which was to take resolution and transparency of their products to a new level.
 
Definitely agree, though, the K3003 possesses better refinement in the treble, and I feel it has more to do with there being more "black space" to it --- the anti-resonances are stronger with the K3003, so even though it might have an even more peaks 'n valleys type of response (when measured), the net effect is that it sounds less bright and smoother because the brightness is more "selective", so to speak. The DN-2000J doesn't have that same level of control and will spew out more treble in between, making things sound less smooth and slightly more splashy.
 

james444 said:

  That said, they're not really more bulbous, just slightly different in shape and material. But they take part of the edge out of the 2000J's treble, just as you said.

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I've had trouble showing differences in the way silicone tips affect FR quantitatively, as they really don't show up in the treble, but rather in these weird artifacts in the bass region --- I might've PM'ed about this before. But different silicone tips clearly affect sound on the DN-2000J (as they do with any IEM) quite distinctively. Foam vs. silicone is far more measurable; hopefully you can try the Ts-500 when you get the chance.

OK - a few asked about the differences between DN1000, DN2000, and DN2000J - so here are some (subjective) observations, and a few objective measurements ......
 
In each case, I volume matched with a fixed test tone @ 1kHz using a calibrated SPL meter to match within 0.1 dB.  I then used my normal test tracks with the X3ii (well under 1 ohm impedance) to subjectively compare
 

• DN1000 vs DN2000J
   
  The DN1000 is immediately noticeable as a lot bassier, both sub and mid-bass.  Still quite nice detail with the treble.  Very much a V shaped presentation, but vocals (especially male vocals have good presence).  Female vocals are tonally darker than I prefer. The DN2000J in comparison is a lot more balanced in the bass, and comparing the two you immediately notice the additional brightness.  Male vocals aren't quite as pronounced, but female vocals (for my preferences) are just about perfect.  There is very good overall balance, but a brightish tilt to the overall signature. The bass quantity might be back a little on the 2000J, but I prefer the more agile and better textured bass of the 2000J.
   
• DN2000 vs DN2000J
   
  Coming straight from the 2000J, you immediately notice the missing brightness with the DN-2000 - especially with female vocals.  The DN-2000 almost sounds dark, and I really had to let my ears rest for a while before continuing. DN2000's bass is a lot stronger, but also very good quality.  Mid range has really good cohesion, with slightly more emphasis on lower mids.  Male vocals are really good and the sense of balance right throughout is one of the DN-2000's strong-points.  I can see why some people would see the DN-2000 as an end game IEM.  But for me, my personal preference is for a slightly brighter upper mid-range, and I do find this lacking on the DN-2000.  Switching back to the 2000J (especially with female vocals) is like lifting a curtain for me.  I know it's simply a matter of preference - but the 2000J is simply tonally brilliant with its slightly brighter signature.  I'm still getting no real sibilance.  Bass is definitely lighter than the DN-2000, but I don't feel as though I'm missing anything.  Oh - and the DN-2000J is definitely more comfortable than both 
  

 
Now for the objective part.  I took my SPL meter tonight and measured all 3 and then comparatively graphed them.  I used C weighting for the measurements, and a series of test tones.  Each IEM was calibrated at 1kHz first before measuring.  The measurements were then put into a conversion and graphing spreadsheet so I could present some real numbers and graph them.  The graph is below.  It is a bit smoothed, but should hopefully give you an idea of the measured differences.
 

 
You can click any of the images for larger pics - including the graph.
 
Conclusion - while my preference still remains the DN-2000J, I am reminded again just how good the DN-2000 and DN-1000 are.  DUNU really knocked it out of the park with all 3 IMO.
 

Brooko, fantastic review. I have 2 questions:
 
1) if you take the DN2000J and boost the bass a bit, how does it sound?
 
2) which genres of music would you say each of the 3 is most suited for?
 
I've had the DN1000 and loved the bass, but the midrange wasn't clear nor fast. I'm inclined to go with the DN2000J as the latest and greatest, but your post has me thinking the DN2000 might be the sweetspot. I listen mostly to pop, heavy metal, rap etc.
 
Thanks!

You should rather EQ down the treble with a -1.5 dB/decade slope beginning at 3k or so. That'll be the same effect as boosting the bass, but without added distortion.

james444 said:

   
Well, I'm back from my vacation, and coincidentally the 2000J from Penon Audio arrived at my doorstep.
 
Haven't had much time to try them, maybe an hour or so. Spent half of that A/Bing to the K3003 (both with silicone tips), so these are just very early impressions:
 

1. Design / housing is very similar to the K3003, and I can fit both comfortably without problems.
2. Nozzles are similar and tips are interchangeable. I prefer the slightly more bulbous K3003 tips on both IEMs.
3. DN2000J have a tad less mid/upper bass, which results in a cooler midrange.
4. DN2000J have a tad more upper mids / highs, which sound slightly less refined and somewhat harsh in comparison to the K3003's.
5. Due to slghtly less bass and more highs, the DN2000J's overall balance is slghtly tipped towards brightness in comparison.
6. The DN2000J sound clearer and more agressively analytical, but also thinner and more fatiguing.
7. The slightly warmer and smoother tuning makes the K3003 noticeably easier to listen to for me (particularly with classical music).
8. Initial listening has been done at low to medium volume with mostly jazz, classical and acoustic stuff.

 
tbc...

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looks like 2000J is poor man's K3003 - at a fraction of the price

still, for those who wanna try out the real thing at an amazing price there are 2 NEW pairs of K3003i , going for sale now at 560$

go get them now before they are gone - you snooze, you lose
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/771094/akg-k3003i-brand-new-factory-sealed-never-opened#post_11677519

brooko said:

  I agree a lot with what Tom is saying.  I use Sony Isolation tips, and while they are silicone outer, the foam inner really helps me with a complete seal.  I also listen at a lot lower volume than a lot of people on these boards.  For this - the 2000J is perfect.  Maybe those who normally listen louder are finding things a bit too much.  I love them.

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Please find a way to get me those tips. I'm dying to have them.

soamusing777 said:

Please find a way to get me those tips. I'm dying to have them.

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http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=371180565316&alt=web

d marc0 said:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=371180565316&alt=web

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Nice find. I'm guessing those hybrid tips come on those headphones. I saw them on Amazon on the japanese or whatever version of the site, but I don't know how to purchase there.

soamusing777 said:

Nice find. I'm guessing those hybrid tips come on those headphones. I saw them on Amazon on the japanese or whatever version of the site, but I don't know how to purchase there.

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I bought the xba1 a long time ago just for those tips. Lucky it was a Sony massive sale. 20 bucks!

d marc0 said:

I bought the xba1 a long time ago just for those tips. Lucky it was a Sony massive sale. 20 bucks!

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I gotcha. I just remember the whole pack on amazon being like $6. I would buy them, but I forgot them company that buys from amazon then ships to you.

soamusing777 said:

I gotcha. I just remember the whole pack on amazon being like $6. I would buy them, but I forgot them company that buys from amazon then ships to you.

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Tenso

d marc0 said:

Tenso

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Dude yes! That's it! Thank you!