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Who is thinking of buying the Schiit Yggdrasil?
Jun 4, 2015 at 9:38 AM Post #211 of 226
To offer an alternative viewpoint, I own many DACs, have heard plenty more. After a week of on time the Yggdrasil presents a 3D, realism I've never experienced with any other DAC. I've been in plenty of mastering rooms with DACs the likes of which most people never have the opportunity experience (nor the room treatments, which are very important for speaker based systems.)
 
Sep 30, 2015 at 6:30 PM Post #212 of 226
This is exciting!  I work for ADI and designed the AD5791 & AD5781 DAC IC's in the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok.  But that was about 2009.  I'm delighted a new market has been found for these products.  As the Yggy blurb explains, I never considered audio when I designed these DACs.  In fact the main motivation at the time was medical imaging - the nice folks who make MRI scanners are awfully fussy about performance, and for good reasons!
 
To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised this makes a good audio DAC.  It's terribly expensive and I always assumed the code-change-dependent glitch energy would make THD unacceptable to audio buffs.  (There are some ingenious board-level tricks around this but they are difficult and expensive to achieve - I'd love to know if the Yggy designer is using them ... feel free to get in touch!)  On the other hand, the AD5791 architecture is unbeatable for noise.  I really don't know what you audio perfectionists are hearing when you listen - is it THD ... or noise?  Some combination of both, I imagine ...
 
Anyway, after years of designing products for specialist scientific, medical and industrial equipment I really like the idea of seeing my design in something I could use myself ... must get one of these!  Given the prices, and my lack of sophistication when it comes to appreciating audio fidelity, I think it'll be the Ragnarok ...
 
Roddy
 
Oct 1, 2015 at 3:00 AM Post #213 of 226
roddymcl said:
  ...
 
To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised this makes a good audio DAC.  It's terribly expensive and I always assumed the code-change-dependent glitch energy would make THD unacceptable to audio buffs.  (There are some ingenious board-level tricks around this but they are difficult and expensive to achieve - I'd love to know if the Yggy designer is using them ... feel free to get in touch!)  On the other hand, the AD5791 architecture is unbeatable for noise.  I really don't know what you audio perfectionists are hearing when you listen - is it THD ... or noise?  Some combination of both, I imagine ...
 
...
Click to expand...

 
Welcome to Head-Fi Roddy!
 
It's great that you found this thread. I'm sure, the designer of the Yggdrasil, Mike Moffat at Schiit Audio would love to have a conversation with you. He goes by [i]Baldr[/i] here on Head-Fi and is active on several Schiit related threads. Send him a PM if you'd like to get in touch.

Also if you haven't seen this, the main Yggy thread (that's now over 1000 posts) is here.
 
Cheers
 
Oct 2, 2015 at 3:42 PM Post #214 of 226
roddymcl said:
  This is exciting!  I work for ADI and designed the AD5791 & AD5781 DAC IC's in the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok.  But that was about 2009.  I'm delighted a new market has been found for these products.  As the Yggy blurb explains, I never considered audio when I designed these DACs.  In fact the main motivation at the time was medical imaging - the nice folks who make MRI scanners are awfully fussy about performance, and for good reasons!
 
To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised this makes a good audio DAC.  It's terribly expensive and I always assumed the code-change-dependent glitch energy would make THD unacceptable to audio buffs.  (There are some ingenious board-level tricks around this but they are difficult and expensive to achieve - I'd love to know if the Yggy designer is using them ... feel free to get in touch!)  On the other hand, the AD5791 architecture is unbeatable for noise.  I really don't know what you audio perfectionists are hearing when you listen - is it THD ... or noise?  Some combination of both, I imagine ...
 
Anyway, after years of designing products for specialist scientific, medical and industrial equipment I really like the idea of seeing my design in something I could use myself ... must get one of these!  Given the prices, and my lack of sophistication when it comes to appreciating audio fidelity, I think it'll be the Ragnarok ...
 
Roddy
Click to expand...


Roddy,
 
I'm Mike's partner at Schiit Audio (I do most of the analog work, he and Dave do most of the digital. I don't know what magic Mike did (all I did was recommend the discrete output buffer for the DAC, which Dave tweaked quite a bit), but here are some independent measurements of where we ended at: http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
 
Mike's currently out at a trade show, but I'll flag him down next week...I bet he'd be interested in talking with you!
 
Thanks again for the spectacular (non-audio) DACs. We're now using the AD5791, AD5781, and AD5547.
 
All the best,
 
Jason Stoddard
 
Co-Founder
Schiit Audio
 
Schiit Audio Stay updated on Schiit Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/ http://www.schiit.com/
Oct 9, 2015 at 9:29 AM Post #215 of 226
roddymcl said:
  Anyway, after years of designing products for specialist scientific, medical and industrial equipment I really like the idea of seeing my design in something I could use myself ... must get one of these!  Given the prices, and my lack of sophistication when it comes to appreciating audio fidelity, I think it'll be the Ragnarok ...
 
Roddy
Click to expand...

Well, thanks for contributing to one of the most exciting products in a while in the audio world.
 
As for your lack of sophistication in the audio fidelity world I'm sure any number of people here would be more than happy to guide you through the thicket.
 
Oct 9, 2015 at 9:53 AM Post #216 of 226
artur9 said:
  Well, thanks for contributing to one of the most exciting products in a while in the audio world.
 
As for your lack of sophistication in the audio fidelity world I'm sure any number of people here would be more than happy to guide you through the thicket.
Click to expand...


Has anyone apologized for his wallet yet? :)
 
Oct 9, 2015 at 9:55 AM Post #217 of 226
roddymcl said:
  This is exciting!  I work for ADI and designed the AD5791 & AD5781 DAC IC's in the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok.  But that was about 2009.  I'm delighted a new market has been found for these products.  As the Yggy blurb explains, I never considered audio when I designed these DACs.  In fact the main motivation at the time was medical imaging - the nice folks who make MRI scanners are awfully fussy about performance, and for good reasons!
 
To be honest, I'm genuinely surprised this makes a good audio DAC.  It's terribly expensive and I always assumed the code-change-dependent glitch energy would make THD unacceptable to audio buffs.  (There are some ingenious board-level tricks around this but they are difficult and expensive to achieve - I'd love to know if the Yggy designer is using them ... feel free to get in touch!)  On the other hand, the AD5791 architecture is unbeatable for noise.  I really don't know what you audio perfectionists are hearing when you listen - is it THD ... or noise?  Some combination of both, I imagine ...
 
Anyway, after years of designing products for specialist scientific, medical and industrial equipment I really like the idea of seeing my design in something I could use myself ... must get one of these!  Given the prices, and my lack of sophistication when it comes to appreciating audio fidelity, I think it'll be the Ragnarok ...
 
Roddy
Click to expand...

Hi Roddy,
 
I've worked in the medical device business for over 40 yrs, though not in imaging. Instrumentation DACs have always been great for DC accuracy but not necessarily good candidates for audio use.  Your design changed this. Mike Moffat's implementation with your instrumentation DAC design is an important development in audio sources, and to my ears, the best sounding advance in DAC technology. My hat is off to you.
 
Oct 9, 2015 at 1:33 PM Post #218 of 226
artur9 said:
 
roddymcl said:
  Anyway, after years of designing products for specialist scientific, medical and industrial equipment I really like the idea of seeing my design in something I could use myself ... must get one of these!  Given the prices, and my lack of sophistication when it comes to appreciating audio fidelity, I think it'll be the Ragnarok ...
 
Roddy
Click to expand...

Well, thanks for contributing to one of the most exciting products in a while in the audio world.
 
As for your lack of sophistication in the audio fidelity world I'm sure any number of people here would be more than happy to guide you through the thicket.
Click to expand...


he should talk to Scott Wurcer about audio - may already talk to him, if not about audio
 
Oct 21, 2015 at 6:45 PM Post #219 of 226
Thanks atomicbob.  I've just read your assessment linked here, and wow, you are pretty thorough!  I would admit that from my (very limited) understanding of this stuff, several of the most spectacular performance measurements are nothing to do with the DAC chip itself.  It seems the surrounding circuitry, including the clocking and filters, must be rather fabulous.  So really, if this yggdrasil sounds as good as you say, credit should go to the Yggdrasil designers.  I'm still intrigued to know what additional tricks they might have used in regard to dealing with the DAC chip's inherent code-dependent glitch energy, if that leads to THD that offends audio buffs ... ?
 
(And yes, I realise from re-reading the Schiit website while rethinking my purchase plans, that in my original post I made the amateur mistake of confusing Gungir and Ragnarok, and probably in my own head other products too.  If only these things had names I could understand.)
 
Roddy
 
Oct 21, 2015 at 10:42 PM Post #220 of 226
Mike Moffat is on record dissing Sample and Hold for audio and with the 2 chips per channel my money is on Ping-Pong interleave/multiplexing - used from the days of epoxy potted DAC modules but most often for doubling sample rate - it also allows for the switching glitch settling while the mux is connected to the already settled DAC's output
Hawksford outlined some other "return-to-zero" MDAC system architectures - which ideas likely predate his pub
 
someone should put a 'scope on one of these to see what's going on
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 4:01 PM Post #221 of 226
Anyone feeding their Ragnarok with a Yggdrasil?
 
Been looking for my next end game sound setup having gone generic for almost twenty years. Thieves liberated form me my NAD amp, JBL 1100S, and my Yamaha 5 disc changer years ago.
What I am looking for is the next step beyond.
 
I was about 15 years old when I carved up my fathers plastic changer with a #11 Xacto blade and my soldering iron to install a A/T moving magnet cartridge and fabricating a balsa wood tone arm. Man he was pissed! I am hopping for the same discovery of audio depth, knowing of course my ears are less responsive these days.
 
I know I am most likely the marketing target for all kinds of schiit so I am not sure if it really smells this good or I am been conned by the sales nosegay? I have been reading all the online info and have found nothing to turn me away from the products.
 

M. Paul
 
Nov 23, 2015 at 5:37 PM Post #222 of 226
^ You are not likely to find many doubters around here!

And yes, there seem to be many Yggy/Rag owners. The posts should not be hard to find, try 'search this thread' in the New Schiit! Ragnarok and Yggdrasil thread for one. Many find google works better.

I own neither Rag nor Yggy yet but FWIW have owned two other Schiit pieces from the early days: both superb value in terms of both cost and sound quality. The Bifrost will soon get the multi-bit upgrade treatment. If I'm happy with that, Yggdrasil is about the only thing on my "to buy" list next year.

I trust your father was ultimately happy with your engineering skill and discerning ears? :wink:

e: forgot to add link before - although it and several others are listed on this page.
 
Nov 24, 2015 at 1:23 AM Post #223 of 226
Just get the Yggy and sort the other details later....     
wink_face.gif

 
Dec 4, 2015 at 1:14 PM Post #224 of 226
djcarpentier said:
  I'm very interested in how this will compare to "pro" dacs. Something like a lavry, benchmark, forssell, etc.
Click to expand...


For a comparison to Benchmark DAC1 see:
"A DAC Comparison: The Schiit Audio Yggdrasil vs. Benchmark Media Systems DAC1 PRE"
http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-yggdrasil/reviews/13419

 
Yggy creams DAC1 hands-down.

 
A more... err... informal comparison of the Schiit MB line is here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison
 
This thread comparing two dozen DACs puts Yggy on top, well above DAC1 or Lavry DA11:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff
 
Mar 30, 2017 at 12:59 PM Post #225 of 226
jason stoddard said:
Roddy,

I'm Mike's partner at Schiit Audio (I do most of the analog work, he and Dave do most of the digital. I don't know what magic Mike did (all I did was recommend the discrete output buffer for the DAC, which Dave tweaked quite a bit), but here are some independent measurements of where we ended at: http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements

Mike's currently out at a trade show, but I'll flag him down next week...I bet he'd be interested in talking with you!

Thanks again for the spectacular (non-audio) DACs. We're now using the AD5791, AD5781, and AD5547.

All the best,

Jason Stoddard

Co-Founder
Schiit Audio
Click to expand...


Should we expect a Yggdrasil version 2 soon?
 
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