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REVIEW: Ultimate Ears UE-10 Pro & Sensaphonics ProPhonic 2X-Soft - Page 9

post #121 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRA
Just gone done working out in my gym....will post right after a quick shower....
You will be surprised how much this can help your hearing. Aerobic training really helps...reduces tinnitus (from my experience) and you dont breathe as hard as someone who is not in top physical condition.

When you are using IEM's and if you suffer from noisy breathing...its a horrible thing to deal with and really screws up the sound.

get your BP into the right numbers, get your pulse rate down and practice deep breathing...basically quieten down your body

I run 4 miles every day and it has only been a positive experience for me...no more occlusion related problems...

I run with the Shure E3's BTW

Cheers!
post #122 of 271
Penbat -- You know Jerry designed the Shure E5 and the UE5c is positioned directly against the Shure E5 -- a better version, if you will. The bass is amazing on these phones, but not overwhelming. And the highs are right there too, in full detail.

I think you should wait for Wolfen's views but just in case you can't here's what I'd suggest you think about:

What's likely to make you crazier --

1) getting phones you really love, but you are left with this nagging feeling that you might have even been able to do better by spending more money? If so you can always buy the UE5c now and "upgrade" later. Years later, maybe -- but you could still do it.

2) Not liking your new canalphones -- in which case, which would make you crazier, having spent $550 for them or having spent $950?

$550 is a boatload to spend on canalphones. $950 is almost two boatloads. (I mean, that's TWO pair of skis! that's the way I tend to measure value) Maybe spending the two boatloads/pair of skis would make you feel better because you could say you spent the money to get the "best" -- then again, if you got the UE5c you might just love them and feel all warm and smug knowing that you got wonderful sound without spending two boatloads!

I don't see how you could go wrong with either 'phones, frankly. But if money is an issue well then the choice is clear, isn't it? And if its not the primary issue, well then you need more data points about the sound signature of the UE5c -- so wait for Wolfen's impressions of them.

Hope this helps!
post #123 of 271
Does anyone want to see the graph of the frequency test done today on the UE10 versus the Sensa 2X???
post #124 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRA
Does anyone want to see the graph of the frequency test done today on the UE10 versus the Sensa 2X???
I mean yes, can you send it to me?
post #125 of 271
Yessssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!
post #126 of 271
It's in a jpeg file on my computer and I have no idea how to put in on the post. If you want I can email it to someone and they can post it.
post #127 of 271
I can't believe I actually read not just the whole review, but all (up till now) 9 pages of comments. And I have no interest in the high end custom IEMs at all. Heh. I think I just liked the bickering...

I was hoping to see more personal attacks though to liven it up a bit. Near the end it got boring because of the lack of fighting..

BTW, nice review King Canaling.
post #128 of 271
Thread Starter 
FWIW, one have to realize that being an audiophile is often more than just wanting the same thing that professional musicians want.

Completely neutral, flat response is something that some audiophiles want, but some other audiophiles resent. Some people like purity, but others prefer to have some coloration that bring their music more to live than the way it is. It's a very subjective choice.

On a lower level, it's like the Sony V6, which is a pair of headphone that's been used for studio monitoring a whole lot of times. However, no one here will go out and glamour about V6 being an "audiophile" headphone, it is revealing and harsh, and only a recommendation because of its price, and at that price point you have to make a choice between having a revealing pair of headphone for detail versus something more smooth and musical.

On a higher level, you can consider the Grado HP-1 versus the RS-1, both are very much "audiophile" quality headphones; but HP-1 is known for its transparency and neutrality, and RS-1 is a more colored sound. A lot of people like the HP-1 for its neutrality, but a lot of people rather have RS-1 because HP-1 is just too neutral and sterile for their taste.

I have no doubt that UE-10 Pro is a very good pair of IEM for professional musician usage. The punchiness and the clarity of sound all speaks for its superiority for monitoring usage. The forward vocals and extra bit of extension in the bass region both help in such a situation. The extra microdynamics that 2X-S can produce might even be distracting.

However, from an audiophile point of view, both headphones are equally competent, just different. There's no particular advantage from either UE-10 Pro or 2X-S sonically other than a preference for a certain sound signature versus another.

There's more than one way to be an audiophile, otherwise we wouldn't be looking for tube amps to make our sound more organic. I wouldn't have the Emmeline HR-2 which gives me a colored, darker and warmer sound. If purity is the only concern, then everyone would get aiming to get a Grado HP-1 with Gilmore amps (or some other equivalent "transparent" set-ups).

I'm not saying this because I don't think that people should get the UE-10 Pro. UE-10 Pro is not the Sony V6.. it is quite musical and very enjoyable in its own sense. However, to dismiss other company's products simply because they're not a "professional musician's choice" is the wrong reason to dismiss a product. Professional musicians often has different ears and different taste than people who are on the receiving end of that sound, because of the work situation they deal with on a daily basis.

I also understand the mentality to not listen to an audiologist's advice as to what you should get. After all, audiologists are willing to sacrifice sound quality for hearing protection. However, also think about those musicians that plays with stage monitors blasting back at them, those who only wears IEM on one side of their ears, there's a lot of musicians who simply only cares about the best sound for themselves, and can really care less about hearing preservation.

I think we have seen our fair share of people on this forum who's complained about hearing loss, not being able to enjoy their music.. etc.. etc... So I personally do think that an audiologist's opinions are important, especially when the audiologist isn't just a hearing aid specialist, but a audiologist who specifically work with musicians.

I understand where Jerry Harvey is coming from, and the type of product he provides his musicians. However, I also understand where Michael Santucci is coming from, and the type of products he provides his musicians.
post #129 of 271
Lindrone,

These IEM's were not designed for audiophiles as I'm sure you understand. It is only recently that the listening public, and a very small group at that, has come to appreciate the potential of these devices for personal listening enjoyment. A whole new market has opened up for these IEM manufacturers. UE at this point in time happens to be the very best of what is out there in the custom IEM marketplace for a whole variety of reasons not just performance. They have a very strong gameplan which includes overwhelming customer support. Their quality is second to none. In this thread they have been unfairly attacked on both those accounts IMO. It was you Lindrone who wrote quite a while back that you could not imagine anything coming near as close to the quality and performance of your 2X's. Additionally you wrote at the time that you had heard thirdhand that the performance and quality of the UE productline was far inferior and went on line and posted that information even though you had never seen the product yourself at that time. You took so called third hand information and published it on a public forum. Personally I thought you sounded like a celebrity spokesperson for the Sensa company. We bickered back and forth and agreed to disagree as I found you very enlightening on other items other than custom IEM's.

I think what's happened here is a credibilty problem from the very first post. I for one, and many others are suspect concerning the review. I have no doubt you feel the Sensa 2X is superior to the UE10pro. We all accept that. I also know that sales of UE units and the overwhelming praise for their product line speaks for itself. As far as sound reproduction is concerned the UE10 reproduces just what the sound engineer and producer wanted you to hear....no frills....no bells, whistles or boosts....that to me is the true value of these IEM's. I'll do my own EQ thank you very much....Cheers.
post #130 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRA
I'll do my own EQ thank you very much....Cheers.


BLASPHEMY!!!

post #131 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRA
It was you Lindrone who wrote quite a while back that you could not imagine anything coming near as close to the quality and performance of your 2X's. Additionally you wrote at the time that you had heard thirdhand that the performance and quality of the UE productline was far inferior...
Can you provide a link to those comments, please? That sounds very out of character for Lindrone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRA
I have no doubt you feel the Sensa 2X is superior to the UE10pro... As far as sound reproduction is concerned the UE10 reproduces just what the sound engineer and producer wanted you to hear....no frills....no bells, whistles or boosts....that to me is the true value of these IEM's. I'll do my own EQ thank you very much...
Lindrone *never* directly labeled the 2X-S as "superior" to the UE-10. He characterized the two products as being *different*. While Lindrone preferred the 2X-S (the 2X-S fit/feel was better for him personally), he was in no way saying that the UE product was "inferior", as you claim. Also, the UE-10 Pro has a perfectly flat frequency response? From what I gather, both IEMs have an impact on the sound - it's just a matter of preference as to which coloration you prefer.


HRA -
Did you even read the review?


EDIT: HRA - I just heard about one of your other usernames. It disgusts me that you'd have the audacity to critique anyone, considering the overwhelming moral gray areas you've found yourself a party to... Credibility? You're one to talk.
post #132 of 271
Thread Starter 
Let's recall the event more accurately, shall we?

I started posting because I thought that UE's material in which they make the earphones from are inferior than the silicone material of the Sensaphonics. I stated several times that I did not know what they sound like, but the silicone material in itself is enough to sway me from one to another, because the improved comfort.

That statement is still true, I find the 2X-S's level of comfort a step above UE-10. You also said yourself that you never got your 2X-S fitted properly. perhaps you should try getting them fitted properly before you judge them?

What I also stated is from my interview with other musicians that my audiologist knew, they didn't find UE-7 and UE-10 particularly better than the 2X-S, and the triple driver design didn't yield much of a boost that can really be told all that much.

That statement *is still true*, because the deeper bass extension that I do find rarely take place... it is sometimes there when it's called for.. as to how many times an instrument may produce a bass that deep and punchy, I have to wonder, it is certainly not on many of my recordings. Only the deepest bass on my hip-hop/rap albums really carry that characteristic. Perhaps in a live monitoring situation it is different, but to my perception it is a bass that isn't useful all the time (less than 1% of the time with my taste for particular music).

What I also said is that I couldn't imagine there can be a deeper bass produced than what I'm getting with the 2X-S. Which is where I was wrong, there is a deeper bass! I also openly admitted that there is in the review. However, this bass is only a slight note deeper, not a whole another level of new discovery of some wild new sound experience. On top of that, the overall bass vibration of the 2X-S is stronger anyway, so UE-10 is punchy with one more note, and 2X-S is a whole lot more like a subwoofer.

From my personal experience now, all of those statements are validated except for the deeper bass. If I was to pick one today, of course 2X-S will still be the choice, because my personal preference for warmer sound has been clearly stated. The "technical superiority" of the UE-10 in my usage experiences is one of personal sound preference, and definitely nowhere near the definite superiority that you make them out to be.

I understand these IEM's were not made for audiophile use, but at some point audiophile and musician use do intersect in middle of the road. You have to be aware of the fact that not everyone wants the same taste of sound that you want, the no thrill, no frills....no bells, whistles or boosts.... There are audiophiles who want the same thing, and there are audiophiles who do not.

Just happens that 2X-S turned out to be a very audiophiles headphone for my personal taste. UE-10 is equally competent as an audiophile headphone catering to a different type of taste.
post #133 of 271
Thanks for the review. I feel some information can be gleaned by rapidly switching between headphones to compare them, and that information is certainly in your review. However, the big picture only really comes after a couple of weeks of listening to one set of phones.

Just my thoughts.
post #134 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by random person
Penbat -- You know Jerry designed the Shure E5 and the UE5c is positioned directly against the Shure E5 -- a better version, if you will. The bass is amazing on these phones, but not overwhelming. And the highs are right there too, in full detail.

I think you should wait for Wolfen's views but just in case you can't here's what I'd suggest you think about:

What's likely to make you crazier --

1) getting phones you really love, but you are left with this nagging feeling that you might have even been able to do better by spending more money? If so you can always buy the UE5c now and "upgrade" later. Years later, maybe -- but you could still do it.

2) Not liking your new canalphones -- in which case, which would make you crazier, having spent $550 for them or having spent $950?

$550 is a boatload to spend on canalphones. $950 is almost two boatloads. (I mean, that's TWO pair of skis! that's the way I tend to measure value) Maybe spending the two boatloads/pair of skis would make you feel better because you could say you spent the money to get the "best" -- then again, if you got the UE5c you might just love them and feel all warm and smug knowing that you got wonderful sound without spending two boatloads!

I don't see how you could go wrong with either 'phones, frankly. But if money is an issue well then the choice is clear, isn't it? And if its not the primary issue, well then you need more data points about the sound signature of the UE5c -- so wait for Wolfen's impressions of them.

Hope this helps!
I'm on a knife edge here !. UE just received my impressions today. I was bit concerned that my impressions were liable to shrink over time so i have asked for them to do recasts now (without a firm UE-10 or UE-5C order) but they will charge me $15 to do this.

I emailed Mindy about choosing UE-5 V UE-10 for an Ipod and she just said that either was equally as good and it would just be personal preference.

Wolfen's views hould be useful but i don't remember offhand if he has an Ety and/or E5 background. I would also suspect that i would have to wait around 10 days before he gets his UE-5Cs and has a chance to try them out.
post #135 of 271

Which one's

Hi Penbat,

Getting my impressions Wednesday. I know exactly what you are going through, I'm hesitant spend so much on something that I may not like, and which I can't re-sell. In view of the fact that no-one has any negative comments about the UE-10's, I'm going to get these rather than the UE5's.

My second consideration is that I'm going to upgrade my sources over the next year or two, and I do not want to have to replace the canalphones, because system improvements show up defficiencies.

I guess one way of justifying the increase is to look at the cost over say 5 years. Hell, I spend more than that on satelite TV. When you look at the cost of decent speakers, amps etc. the price of the ears is a relative bargain.

Cheers
John
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