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PM-1 vs HE-6 ..... - Page 5

post #61 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjc11028 View Post
 

the he-6, like stax, is a challenge i think because you cannot just buy it and plug it into the headphone equipment (even if it is quite good) you already have and see how it does.  it takes different stuff to sound real good.    

 

Right about that.  I was ready to my HE-6 because I didn't like it to much on my B22.  Happy Camper brought his two little Rotel mono blocks over and blew the B22 out the water with them.  I mean the sound just got bigger, the bass was kicking.  I said damn, WTF.  Why can't this 4-channel B22 make these sound like this?  They sound muffled in comparison.

 

Happy Camper said..  Don't you have some speaker amps in the other room?  I said yeah, but they're for my HT system.  He said bring them in lets try them out.  I said what the heck..  That was all she wrote..  After that the search was on for the right synergy.

post #62 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

By the looks of your post, you can tell you haven't been around here long..  Please point out to me wherever you've read "it's because one didn't feed them with terawatts of power"  See, what you're doing is feeding an age old myth.  This is how old myths stay alive.  

 

I along with countless others have tried to kill this myth thousands of times, but it just won't die.  Any headphone amp, speaker amp, portable amp, whatever amp - can drive the HE-6..  OK.  However, it will not sound good out of most of those amps.  What we are trying to do here is get the most out the headphone, trying to reach it's absolute highest potential.  The only way we've found to get there or very close is by using speaker amps.

 

Now, I've owned a 10watt into 8 ohm speaker amp that I used for over a year with my HE-6.  It's still one of the best amps I've heard with the HE-6.  That's right only 10watts into 8 ohms.  Guess what that does to your "it's because one didn't feed them with terawatts of power" statement?  That's right it just killed that myth.  

 

​What you need is a capable amp.  A capable amp can come in all sizes, shapes and wattage output.  Still - it has to be capable.  Capable of what you ask?  Capable of sustaining consistent peaks in some music passages without running out of gas.  Capable of taming the much talked about harsh highs. Capable of taking the bass of the HE-6 by the balls and controlling the hell out of it.  Capable of allowing the mids of the HE-6 to sing baby sing.  

 

There's a hell of a lot of capable amps out there.  Just not many headphone amp are capable.  Your amp best the have a hell of a power supply with some hefty transformers.  Most headphones amps of yesterday didn't need to have this.  It's now today that headphone amps are putting out more power, but still not sure if their power supplies can keep up.  

 

The EF-6...  The EF-6 has more than enough power to drive the HE-6.  However, to many the synergy is just not there.  It's still a tad bit on the bright side.  Still does not give the treble it's just do.  I had the EF-6 in house on loan for about 6 months.  I put it through all kinds of test, side by side with the GS-X mk2, and the lowly 10watt into 8ohms amp.  Guess what..  That lowly 10watt into 8ohm amp kicked it's ass.  The EF-6 and the GS-X mk2 was going toe to toe with the GS-X mk2 winning by a hair because of out it tamed the highs.  However, the GS-X mk2 would sometimes run out of gas on extreme busy passages.  

 

I cannot say whether you are right or not... I still feel that it may very well be about synergy (tonal, timbral or whatever) and not about power supply demands (though I guess you are at least partially right as HE-6 are really specific headphones, the extreme case let's say even comparing to the other Hifiman offerings).

 

But, what is for sure, you should definitely consider adding this to your signature or stick it somewhere here on Head-fi. I can tell you that the overall picture for rather general observer like me is that HE-6 just 'ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES tons of power to sound good in the eyes of HE-6 die-hard fans'. It would be nice to spread a post like this more because it at least sounds much more reasonable (to me and IMHO, of course).


Edited by Ron12 - 7/12/14 at 10:20am
post #63 of 139

The HE-5LE were like that, too.

Just a whole 'nother set of headphones when run straight from the speaker outputs from my power amp.

The HE-6 sounded so much more capable and authoritative when run straight from an amp. 

post #64 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron12 View Post
 

 

I cannot say whether you are right or not... I still feel that it may very well be about synergy (tonal, timbral or whatever) and not about power supply demands (though I guess you are at least partially right as HE-6 are really specific headphones, the extreme case let's say even comparing to the other Hifiman offerings).

 

But, what is for sure, you should definitely consider adding this to your signature or stick it somewhere here on Head-fi. I can tell you that the overall picture for rather general observer like me is that HE-6 just 'ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES tons of power to sound good in the eyes of HE-6 die-hard fans'. It would be nice to spread a post like this more because it at least sounds much more reasonable (to me and IMHO, of course).

 

:beerchug:

 

Not about power supply demands?   Umm...

 

 

I think you may need to compare the HE-6 on a few headphone amps side by side with a few speaker amps. Then report back..

post #65 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

:beerchug:

 

Not about power supply demands?   Umm...

 

 

I think you may need to compare the HE-6 on a few headphone amps side by side with a few speaker amps. Then report back..

 

Paypal me the funds and I'll surely follow your advice! :D

 

I am not saying you're not right... You at least partially are, it seems. But I am not taking your opinion as an absolute fact, especially not here on Hyperbole-fi. That's all I wanted to say. :) 


Edited by Ron12 - 7/12/14 at 11:51am
post #66 of 139

Don't take anyones opinion here - that's why I said you should compare for yourself as I did.  I didn't take anyones opinion - I was shown, and I heard with my own ears.  

 

Also (not saying you are) challenging others first hand experience with non first hand experience is not a good thing to do around these parts.  

 

Looks like you have the HE-4 - correct?  If so, they are a bare to deal with as well - but to a huge lesser extent.  

 

Peace

post #67 of 139

Has anyone driven their PM-1 with a tube amp?

My Fitz-improved Bada PH-12 hybrid amp is back from the shop, and I may give the Oppos a try with it.

post #68 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by pataburd View Post
 

Has anyone driven their PM-1 with a tube amp?

My Fitz-improved Bada PH-12 hybrid amp is back from the shop, and I may give the Oppos a try with it.

 

I would be personally more interested in how PM-1 sound out of something as neutral and ultratransparent as GSX mkII. Simply if they are really high-end enough to scale significantly. :)

post #69 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

I've heard from many that owns both that the 560 is in-between the 500 and the 6.  Meaning it is not an upgrade over the 6, rather still a notch below.  Oh well - Still awaiting the HE-6 successor.


I don't see how the 560 is in between the 500 and the 6 in any way but the product number. They're all good headphones, the 560 is simply the most neutral of the three. About the only thing the HE-6 might have on the 560 is the bass response, and even that's more of a matter of taste.

post #70 of 139

Are the 560 being the most neural of the three your subjective opinion or are you basing it of FR charts and CD plots?  

 

When I hear a 560 I can better respond based off what I hear and not what others hear.  

 

If Fang thought the 560s was a better headphone - he could have just as well called it the HE-7 but he didn't so the product number does imply something.

post #71 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

Are the 560 being the most neural of the three your subjective opinion or are you basing it of FR charts and CD plots? 

 

Both. FWIW my preference is 560 > 500 > 6.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

If Fang thought the 560s was a better headphone - he could have just as well called it the HE-7 but he didn't so the product number does imply something.

 

What kind of a world would we live in if it didn't!

post #72 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post
 

 

Both. FWIW my preference is 560 > 500 > 6.

 

 

What kind of a world would we live in if it didn't!

 

Oh yes it has to be a subjective response because IMO the 500 is no where near the performace capabilities of the HE-6.  Not even close.

 

Where are the charts on the 560?

post #73 of 139
post #74 of 139

Ummm and where are those better than the HE-6?  

post #75 of 139

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE6.pdf

 

You see that dip and sudden jump around 5khz? It's accompanied by a nasty resonance. The subsequent elevated treble response culminating in a 9khz spike doesn't help either.

 

Compared with http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE500.pdf

 

The dip is less severe and not accompanied by the same lengthy resonance and while the 9khz spike remains, the treble before that is a few db down.

 

It's that 5-10khz region that can become very annoying. Even the HD800 has problems in that region. For that reason I tend to prefer the smoother, sweeter stat treble to that of planar magnetics. Though I must say that, subjectively, the 560 is pretty smooth. There might be a little bit of an upper mid accent, but it's not too bothersome.


Edited by anetode - 7/12/14 at 3:10pm
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