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When you're talking bass tightness on HD800 vs. HE560, you're splitting hairs on extreme reference quality. You could easily call either one of them perfect - all arguments start becoming subjective.
Headphones for metal music - ultimate solution
- Thread starter levap
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When you're talking bass tightness on HD800 vs. HE560, you're splitting hairs on extreme reference quality. You could easily call either one of them perfect - all arguments start becoming subjective.
heart banger-97
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Listening to Gojira - From Mars to Sirius right now on my new HE-6, holy **** is the the only applicable term. What have I been missing out on!!! I'm kicking myself for not getting a HE-6 sooner. The speed and balls out aggression on these is amazing. More to come
You are making me jealous
Have you got your nfb-28? Have you ordered high gain option?
markm1
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You are making me jealous
Have you got your nfb-28? Have you ordered high gain option?
What amp are you sporting with that big boy?
YtseJamer
Headphoneus Supremus
Think you've nailed it!
I completely agree with everything that you said about the HE-560 and the LCD-X.
Thorsicequeen
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Fisry I got to say thanks to levap and all of you for posting this information. A job well done, and although this has been highly informational, I am left a little confused. I have never bought a decent set of headphones and wat to start, but do not wat to break the bank at first. I see the Creative Aurvana Live is recommended. Has anyone here tried them? Also think the Beyerdynamic DT770 pro or the Shure SRH840 may be interesting. I am not sure if high, average or low soundstage would be better, or if light or dark (side of the force) works beter for what I listen to. I am hoping to keep my entry set of headpones betweeen 100 and 250 Canadian dollars. My usual EG is mostly flat with a slight increase to the bass.
I listen to all kinds of music, but maily I am looking into getting Bathory to sound stellar. Normally I find the treble too "hissy" for lack of a better word, and the bass too "bottom ended", "crackly" like and over cranked subwoofer. I am hoping to find something to mellow those extemes out.
I also listen to Enslaved, Opeth, Sentenced, Iced Earth, Tool, NIN, Old School Metal, Thrash, Outlaw Country, anbd Blues.
Any directional help would be appreciated.
Also I found a cool link that some of you may be interested in, it compares the sound of several of the headphones on the list by playing a sample track for audio comparison.
http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/app/audio?load=category&key=headphones.html
I listen to all kinds of music, but maily I am looking into getting Bathory to sound stellar. Normally I find the treble too "hissy" for lack of a better word, and the bass too "bottom ended", "crackly" like and over cranked subwoofer. I am hoping to find something to mellow those extemes out.
I also listen to Enslaved, Opeth, Sentenced, Iced Earth, Tool, NIN, Old School Metal, Thrash, Outlaw Country, anbd Blues.
Any directional help would be appreciated.
Also I found a cool link that some of you may be interested in, it compares the sound of several of the headphones on the list by playing a sample track for audio comparison.
http://www.sonicsense.com/resourcecenter/app/audio?load=category&key=headphones.html
money4me247
Headphoneus Supremus
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Happy to help with this request. On spotify, there is actually a few different versions so I tried them all out. The "Whispers In The Dark" from Comatose was recorded/mastered a bit differently from "Whispers In The Dark" from Comatose Comes Alive. (The Comatose version had softer volumes at the same settings, bass less prominent, and the imaging was a bit different on all the headphones I used; will be referring to them as C version vs CCA version). C version had the singer placed farther back from you in the beginning but moved forward later on, while CCA had the singer was much closer throughout the whole performance. First 10 seconds, there was an additional background scratchy riff on CCA underneath the cheering, pretty cool. (CCA also had this effect at a different time though). On CCA 2:40 - On LCD-X cheering mob sounds like a single blurry cheer that shifts in position (mostly L-sided moving towards center) and then more intense bass drop. HE-560 you hear more individual voices in the mob, with less blur. I think the they were using a moving mic to make this effect or they added computer effects to this. The Acoustic version was a bit boring for me. Did not really enjoy it, so didn't really analyze it. The drums at ~1:15 in Comatose was behind the singer to the center right, while on Comes Alive the drums were prominently to your left. Guitars at ~2:37 in similar R-sided position. I actually enjoyed the Come Alive version more, but I figured most people will just have the normal version, so analyzed that. Turned out writing way too much I think.
At start, the piano notes had more underlying weight on the LCD-X, seemed in the foreground. More blurred effect on the LCD-X with a richer tone. The HE-560 had more spacing between the notes, shorter decay times, and the piano sounded like it was coming from perhaps a pit under the stage with notes moving from L-side to R-side. Piano sounded a bit recessed at first in comparison I guess, but then I realized this intro part is actually supposed to be much softer than the rest of the track.
0:15, there was a cool effect with a scratchy distortion riff at the R side shifting slowly behind you with a repeated note moving in a horizontal circle on the L side. On the HE-560 your attention focuses on the moving note on the left side, while the LCD-X the scratchy noise on the R was very textured (may have been grainer) so kinda split your focus between the two effects, really cool. The HE-560 sort of presented the scratchy noise on the R as distinct notes with static in between (sounded more like an instrument, the maraca perhaps?) while the LCD-X presented it as an electronic distortion-type effect as if it was a coherent scratchiness with texture moving a beat (thought it was just an electronic effect).
0:20: the drop hit harder here on the LCD-X (impact-wise), more weight to the bass notes. cymbal clashes vaguely on the R/R-back. HE-560 is more precise with the percussion instrument placement, feels like you can point to exactly where the note is coming from with the distance away, but less weight to each note. The change in dynamics volume was more dramatic in the HE-560 as the intro was not as emphasized prior, but less impact from bass notes.
0:30: a metallic distortion to the singer's voice more prominent on the LCD-X, On the HE-560, you don't actually get that metallic distortion, but you can hear a squeaky background effect on the L channel that the LCD-X picks up quite differently. The LCD-X picks up up as a more constant buzzing sound with some squeaks
0:55: nice changing bass weight that matches the singer's change in pitch on the LCD-X. Enveloping weighty bass notes with a subtle right sided emphasis on the LCD-X. HE-560, you can a distinctive tight bass definitely coming from the right. Bass overall is much faster and tighter on the HE-560, but not as prominently emphasized. Weight is still there, but not as weighty due to the more foreground emphasis of the voice and the guitars.
1:00: cymbals (lol I forgot what I was going to write here) there are actually cymbals prior to that, but I don't think I noticed them as cymbals on the LCD-X until 1:10. ah, I was going to write that the cymbals weren't as distinct and cripsy, but still had sparkle on the LCD-X. The HE-560 I picked up cymbals much earlier and can image them better.
1:15: Singer's voice lost the metallic-vibe by now, replaced with a low rough growly texture. Very organic presentation of the voice on the LCD-X. Metallic edge to his voice comes back at 1:26. HE-560 never really presented that metallic edge to the voice. Voice sounds less rough, don't get that blended textured distortion feel as much on the HE-560. Still get the very textured growly voice when the singer does that.
1:15 still: cymbals to L side, less prominent on the LCD-X, does not sound as much as distinctive cymbals (actually sounded more like an effect), so when it transitions into the electronic buzz at 1:20, don't notice the transition as much with the X. Sounded almost like an electronic effect the whole time. On the HE-560, you hear more distinctive cymbals on the L at 1:15, which transitions with an electronic whine at 1:25 into the buzzing beats. Throughout that section the LCD-X had more prominent enveloping percussion with solid weight with cymbals sounding all somewhere right sided except for a subtle shift of three cymbal notes to the L (harder to notice on the LCD-X), while the HE-560 you could pick up the precise percussion location behind your right ear, not as much underlying weight until 2:00 there is a bit more sub-bass extension.
Prior to the 2:08 solo guitar riff, the guitars do not really seem to image as well on the LCD-X, more an enveloping presentation where the guitar sound is simply everywhere and surrounding you. On the HE-560 the guitar seems located right by the singer's voice. Not has enveloping a sound. Voice slightly more prominent than the guitar usually when the bass in the background. The LCD-X had all three of those elements pretty emphasized and about equal level with the bass being most prominent followed by the guitar.
2:08 - guitar riff. very engaging on both. the way the HE-560 presents all the instruments, the guitar riff stands out more prominently among the bass (focused my attention onto the guitar solo), Can hear the distinctive cymbals note to the L at 2:23, and the 2:34 transition you can hear the two guitars L and R with the percussion notes that end in a cymbal clash clearly center stage with cymbals on the right. At 2:43 when he is singing, you can actually pick up two overlapping cymbals that blur together on your R and L side behind you, then prominently R sided cymbal clashes at 3:02 that few alternates to the L on the HE-560. On the LCD-X strangely, it sounds like cymbals were primarily behind you or L-sided through that whole performance, can image a few of the specific cymbal clashes more precisely but also get the sense that they are located behind you on the LCD-X. Very sparkly cymbals on the LCD-X, but more distinctively crispy cymbals on the HE-560. R Drumroll on 2:27 more emphasized on the LCD-X. On the LCD-X, the bass is as strong as the guitar riff (feeling the beat more on while I heard it presented this way).
2:59 - more weight to the bass notes with the LCD-X v HE-560. Cymbal imaging not as precise on the LCD-X, sounds like they are just behind you.
3:10 - imaging of the shifting percussion more precise and notes were faster on the HE-560 v LCD-X. LCD-X had more weight to each percussion note, but did not sound as fast. The amount of emphasis on the L-sided guitar on the LCD-X actually matched the emphasis of final percussion closer.
0:15, there was a cool effect with a scratchy distortion riff at the R side shifting slowly behind you with a repeated note moving in a horizontal circle on the L side. On the HE-560 your attention focuses on the moving note on the left side, while the LCD-X the scratchy noise on the R was very textured (may have been grainer) so kinda split your focus between the two effects, really cool. The HE-560 sort of presented the scratchy noise on the R as distinct notes with static in between (sounded more like an instrument, the maraca perhaps?) while the LCD-X presented it as an electronic distortion-type effect as if it was a coherent scratchiness with texture moving a beat (thought it was just an electronic effect).
0:20: the drop hit harder here on the LCD-X (impact-wise), more weight to the bass notes. cymbal clashes vaguely on the R/R-back. HE-560 is more precise with the percussion instrument placement, feels like you can point to exactly where the note is coming from with the distance away, but less weight to each note. The change in dynamics volume was more dramatic in the HE-560 as the intro was not as emphasized prior, but less impact from bass notes.
0:30: a metallic distortion to the singer's voice more prominent on the LCD-X, On the HE-560, you don't actually get that metallic distortion, but you can hear a squeaky background effect on the L channel that the LCD-X picks up quite differently. The LCD-X picks up up as a more constant buzzing sound with some squeaks
0:55: nice changing bass weight that matches the singer's change in pitch on the LCD-X. Enveloping weighty bass notes with a subtle right sided emphasis on the LCD-X. HE-560, you can a distinctive tight bass definitely coming from the right. Bass overall is much faster and tighter on the HE-560, but not as prominently emphasized. Weight is still there, but not as weighty due to the more foreground emphasis of the voice and the guitars.
1:00: cymbals (lol I forgot what I was going to write here) there are actually cymbals prior to that, but I don't think I noticed them as cymbals on the LCD-X until 1:10. ah, I was going to write that the cymbals weren't as distinct and cripsy, but still had sparkle on the LCD-X. The HE-560 I picked up cymbals much earlier and can image them better.
1:15: Singer's voice lost the metallic-vibe by now, replaced with a low rough growly texture. Very organic presentation of the voice on the LCD-X. Metallic edge to his voice comes back at 1:26. HE-560 never really presented that metallic edge to the voice. Voice sounds less rough, don't get that blended textured distortion feel as much on the HE-560. Still get the very textured growly voice when the singer does that.
1:15 still: cymbals to L side, less prominent on the LCD-X, does not sound as much as distinctive cymbals (actually sounded more like an effect), so when it transitions into the electronic buzz at 1:20, don't notice the transition as much with the X. Sounded almost like an electronic effect the whole time. On the HE-560, you hear more distinctive cymbals on the L at 1:15, which transitions with an electronic whine at 1:25 into the buzzing beats. Throughout that section the LCD-X had more prominent enveloping percussion with solid weight with cymbals sounding all somewhere right sided except for a subtle shift of three cymbal notes to the L (harder to notice on the LCD-X), while the HE-560 you could pick up the precise percussion location behind your right ear, not as much underlying weight until 2:00 there is a bit more sub-bass extension.
Prior to the 2:08 solo guitar riff, the guitars do not really seem to image as well on the LCD-X, more an enveloping presentation where the guitar sound is simply everywhere and surrounding you. On the HE-560 the guitar seems located right by the singer's voice. Not has enveloping a sound. Voice slightly more prominent than the guitar usually when the bass in the background. The LCD-X had all three of those elements pretty emphasized and about equal level with the bass being most prominent followed by the guitar.
2:08 - guitar riff. very engaging on both. the way the HE-560 presents all the instruments, the guitar riff stands out more prominently among the bass (focused my attention onto the guitar solo), Can hear the distinctive cymbals note to the L at 2:23, and the 2:34 transition you can hear the two guitars L and R with the percussion notes that end in a cymbal clash clearly center stage with cymbals on the right. At 2:43 when he is singing, you can actually pick up two overlapping cymbals that blur together on your R and L side behind you, then prominently R sided cymbal clashes at 3:02 that few alternates to the L on the HE-560. On the LCD-X strangely, it sounds like cymbals were primarily behind you or L-sided through that whole performance, can image a few of the specific cymbal clashes more precisely but also get the sense that they are located behind you on the LCD-X. Very sparkly cymbals on the LCD-X, but more distinctively crispy cymbals on the HE-560. R Drumroll on 2:27 more emphasized on the LCD-X. On the LCD-X, the bass is as strong as the guitar riff (feeling the beat more on while I heard it presented this way).
2:59 - more weight to the bass notes with the LCD-X v HE-560. Cymbal imaging not as precise on the LCD-X, sounds like they are just behind you.
3:10 - imaging of the shifting percussion more precise and notes were faster on the HE-560 v LCD-X. LCD-X had more weight to each percussion note, but did not sound as fast. The amount of emphasis on the L-sided guitar on the LCD-X actually matched the emphasis of final percussion closer.
I actually didn't like the regular Comtatose version as much at first hahah. Felt a bit too bass light with my HE-560s. Was actually acceptably balanced (imo) on the LCD-X with its slight bass emphasis. The singer's presence seems more recessed in comparison to the Comes Alive version though. The Come Alive version was well-balanced with a lot of weight to the bass on the HE-560 as well, so I feel that the Comes Alive Version works well on both headphones. I may slightly prefer the presentation of the LCD-X on the normal Comatose album just due to the extra weighty bass and enveloping feel. The HE-560 picked up a lot more imaging cues and distinguished between the subtleties a lot better, but I feel like with metal you just want to rock out with the beat rather than catch all the tiny details of the different sounds. I think a bit extra warmth and richness on the LCD-X with a weighty bass emphasis that makes it very enjoyable to listen to in comparison to the balanced presentation of the sounds on the HE-560 which can be extremely resolving on all the little details and razor precise with the imaging. The details and imaging can still be noticed on the LCD-X, but get of get lost in the more enveloping sound. This in my mind would be what people talk about when they compare an organic presentation (LCD-X) vs clinical presentation (HE-560).
Overall, was a very enjoyable experience doing quite a few extensive back-and-forth direct comparisons of the entire song and specific portions of the tracks. Metal actually makes headphones sound quite a bit more different than some of the other genres. Really can gauge some of their relative strengths and weakness on a track like this (imo). track timings might be a bit off, kinda jotted down rough reference points after I heard the effects sometimes.
Hope this was interesting to read at least & sorry for the verbose nature of the comparison.
I totally agree. It is quite close. I don't want anyone to think that any of the flagships I noted really fall too far behind in each other in any aspect of sound quality. I was lucky enough to demo a whole bunch of flagships side-by-side and really besides differences in presentation (warm/dark vs more neutral/bright sound signatures), everything else is extremely close and very competitive against each other. If anything as a glaring weakness, I would note on it specifically as a weakness. It is an extremely eye-opening experience and really puts into perspective the quantitative amounts that some people argue so intensely over. For example, the HD800's sound stage (which is quite phenomenal) and I do get the sense it has an extra 'edge' compared to the others, but really when doing direct comparisons, the differences are in inches, not the miles ahead that it sometimes sounds like on the forums. My direct subjective impressions are just to indulge those who really want to know the subtle differences and don't have the opportunity to do a side-by-side direction comparison for themselves. I would strongly recommend trying out stuff via direct comparison on the same gear/source if you ever get the opportunity.
In terms of the bass tightness and bass quality, I do also agree the HD800's bass is quite good (it sometimes gets bashed on the forums, but I did not find it to be lacking in any respect). Compared against any other dynamic headphone even some of the more colored planars, it is extremely competitive. I just personally enjoy the HE-560's bass presentation more and felt it had a slight 'edge' for my subjective tastes.
Music Alchemist
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Bahaha. Such a long post for just one song. Guess he'll never get to my giant list of songs... :'(
money4me247
Headphoneus Supremus
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lol I can do one sentence summaries of one song per album out of half that list? =S
Music Alchemist
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Only the top half? haha. For artists with more than one song, each song is from a different album. I did not list full albums, since that wouldn't be specific enough.
I can reduce the size of the list if it's too much trouble.
If you can include the EL-8 Closed-Back, that would be awesome.
money4me247
Headphoneus Supremus
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I can give you a summary of the basic differences between LCD-X, HE-560, EL-8, (and PM-3 but only if you are interested in them) using maybe like a 5 song list as a common reference point. the summary can be applied to the rest of the songs. Will not be able to complete your request til later though. we can continue this via PM, though I can post the summary here if other people are interested. sent you a PM as well.
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I'd be interested in some metal impressions with the PM-3 as well. You definitely piqued my interest in them after that monster review you did!
Music Alchemist
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What do you mean by this? Five of the songs cannot represent all of the songs.
Sure, I can apply the basic info you provide to any song, but that wouldn't help as much as actually listening to a song and giving impressions.
If you require a maximum of five songs, it's going to be difficult for me to choose.
bavinck
Headphoneus Supremus
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Money,
One last request if you can find the time. Artist the Gentle Storm album gentle song the storm. If you would be able to compare the 560,800 and x I would sure appreciate it.
Edit: this album is two discs, gentle and storm. Gentle is acoustic, storm is prog metal, same songs for both Cd's so you could easily compare the song the storm acoustic and plugged in. Brilliant album in total,getting lots of play time on my he500s and brand new h10.
One last request if you can find the time. Artist the Gentle Storm album gentle song the storm. If you would be able to compare the 560,800 and x I would sure appreciate it.
Edit: this album is two discs, gentle and storm. Gentle is acoustic, storm is prog metal, same songs for both Cd's so you could easily compare the song the storm acoustic and plugged in. Brilliant album in total,getting lots of play time on my he500s and brand new h10.
markm1
Headphoneus Supremus
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Slightly, off topic, but reading these posts is making me think about my own process evaluating gear. You can drive yourself a little crazy A to B testing.
I just started auditioning gear in a more serious way (albeit mostly stereo equipment). I've come to the conclusion less is more. My temptation is to bring a lot of music. I think that's a mistake now because you can only really remember small amount of information. Redcarmoose posted an interesting video from some sort of audio panel and they were talking about a lot of stuff. But what stuck w/ me is how limited our hearing is. LIke you can't really objectively analyze bass for instance and mids or highs at the same time. It's like you can really only focus on one thing. I forget how they broke it down, but they did some sort of test comparing what people actually hear and can remember in blind tests and it's very, very limited. Your subjective brain takes over and colors what you think you hear.
Given that, you'd probably serve yourself best by listening to one track-maybe one track that really covers a lot of ground. Tools-The Grudge from Lateralus is my go to track-it's got great tight base, is heavy enough (for me), and just has a lot of sound textures. And, of course, even amongst non metal audiophiles, Tool is universally accepted as one of the few heavy bands that genuinely is dedicated to good sound. I don't listen to Tool that much other than auditioning, but I know that one track really well.
That said, I break my own rule, but I now will bring just a couple of tracks to audition. I'll pick 2-3 tracks from a group of my audition cuts. Here's what I bring currently (very little metal-I don't think it's necessary-sure one track of metal, but to me good sound is good sound)
But where's the extreme metal? I do listen to a lot of it, but I leave it at home. I don't find it affective comparing gear. and, honestly, most of it isn't recorded very well.
If time is limited and I'm mostly interested in metal-I'll just bring Tool and listen to it over and over with different gear. The most important thing I've learned -for me-is you should bring something-anything really- that you like and you know really really well....like the back of your hand so to speak.
Now, if I can take gear home to audition overnight, then all bets are off and I'll throw everything at it
I just started auditioning gear in a more serious way (albeit mostly stereo equipment). I've come to the conclusion less is more. My temptation is to bring a lot of music. I think that's a mistake now because you can only really remember small amount of information. Redcarmoose posted an interesting video from some sort of audio panel and they were talking about a lot of stuff. But what stuck w/ me is how limited our hearing is. LIke you can't really objectively analyze bass for instance and mids or highs at the same time. It's like you can really only focus on one thing. I forget how they broke it down, but they did some sort of test comparing what people actually hear and can remember in blind tests and it's very, very limited. Your subjective brain takes over and colors what you think you hear.
Given that, you'd probably serve yourself best by listening to one track-maybe one track that really covers a lot of ground. Tools-The Grudge from Lateralus is my go to track-it's got great tight base, is heavy enough (for me), and just has a lot of sound textures. And, of course, even amongst non metal audiophiles, Tool is universally accepted as one of the few heavy bands that genuinely is dedicated to good sound. I don't listen to Tool that much other than auditioning, but I know that one track really well.
That said, I break my own rule, but I now will bring just a couple of tracks to audition. I'll pick 2-3 tracks from a group of my audition cuts. Here's what I bring currently (very little metal-I don't think it's necessary-sure one track of metal, but to me good sound is good sound)
- Tool-The Grudge,
- Kreator--Phantom Antichrists
- Either something from Steven Wilson's-The Raven....or Porcupine Tree's In Abstentia. This is a great album in that there are portions of heavy distorted almost metal guitar (thinking of the 1st track in particular) with great prog and rock work
- Pink Floyd-DSOTM-The first 3 tracks have all those great sound affects-I can really zero in on specific sounds.
- Even if you don't listen to jazz a lot of audiophiles will claim that jazz is one of the best ways to evaluate gear in terms of acoustic instrumentation and good accurate sound, separation of instruments, etc. I don't always get around to it, but will often bring Miles Davis Kind of Blue-duh! or Art Balkey-Monain
- A good base track is great-besides Tool, I've been bringing FKA Twiggs or Jon Hopkins-I also like one electronic or pop track.
- Classical-you should have a sense of true soundstage IMO. I like "The Battle" from the Gladiator soundtrack. It's long but has a little bit of everything
But where's the extreme metal? I do listen to a lot of it, but I leave it at home. I don't find it affective comparing gear. and, honestly, most of it isn't recorded very well.
If time is limited and I'm mostly interested in metal-I'll just bring Tool and listen to it over and over with different gear. The most important thing I've learned -for me-is you should bring something-anything really- that you like and you know really really well....like the back of your hand so to speak.
Now, if I can take gear home to audition overnight, then all bets are off and I'll throw everything at it
heart banger-97
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