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Light Harmonic Geek Out EM/1000 Impressions Thread - Page 11

post #151 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
  Somewhat OT about headphones, sensitivity and numbers. (Click to show)
It's not about the actual numbers, it's about ensuring the amp will have enough headroom for peaks in the music and overall playback that the performance will be linear with a particular headphones. A lot of amps may be able to output, say, 4W, but may only be in Class A mode for part of their power output. Also, prior to planar headphones becoming popular, amps were more often designed for high-impedance, high sensitive headphones and they didn't do a good job with planar headphones at all. So putting an arbitrary figure out there was an easy way to deal with this.  The numbers wont tell you how well an amp will perform though, not by a long shot. smile.gif
That's partially true, yes. That's why whenever people do power calculations, they usually determine the power needed to reach > 110 dB SPL because that will determine the power needed to reach a peak in the music. Even at 110 dB SPL, that's quite a large number and I would probably be surprised if my music ever reached that level, even if I'm on a public bus. As calculated earlier, the LCD-2.2 only needs ~700 mW of power to reach a peak of ~117 dB SPL.

While on the topic of planar magnetic headphones and power needed though, the LCD-X is far more sensitive than the LCD-2.2 and it's at a much lower impedance (Tyll measured 0.28 mW to reach 90 dB SPL at a 15 Ω impedance). Audeze still suggests having 1-4 W of power to drive them, which is utterly insane. I rarely had to ever turn the potentiometer past the 11 o'clock position on the Objective 2 at 1.0x gain to get sufficiently loud volume levels, and the O2 definitely has less than 1 W of power output. Intuitively, it doesn't make sense to get the Geek 1000 for the LCD-2.2, or the Geek 750 for the LCD-X (it only takes 227 mW to reach 119 dB SPL).

So that brings me back to the question if the Geek 1000 really has any benefits. Again, we only know one VRMS value at one impedance value, so we really have no information about it otherwise. If talking about planar magnetic headphones, current is usually more important than voltage, and as of right now we have no information about the Geek 1000's current output versus that of the Geek 450. Power linearity is something to keep in mind too, yes, but there seems to be very little data about that topic.

 

"Need" is definitely a tricky one. I listen to music using a 1W SET amp. Yet its performance is very linear within that 1W. I've had amps here that could output 4W that don't even remotely deliver what that amp can. Even if an amp can get loud enough, the real test is to play fast, complex music at higher volumes and listen to hear if the soundstage collapses. That is something the numbers cannot tell you. That's entirely dependant on the design, so I don't think it's insane for Audeze to write that the "Optimal Power Requirement" is an amp with 1-4W given the wide variation in amp designs out there. 

 

Since this is about the Geek Out 1000 (which is on its way to me) I am very curious to find out how well it does from a USB port. I suspect that, like other people, I should have got the lowest power version as I'm using IEMs more often these days, and if the volume control is a dangerous issue, then it may turn out the unit is somewhat useless to me.

post #152 of 1212

Thanks Mike. The other cable was a lot more expensive!!

post #153 of 1212

All other USB DACs I've ever owned had a female Type B input jack, requiring the use of a USB cable with a male Type B plug.

 

The GO 1000 is the first unit I've owned with a male Type A plug connection, meaning you don't have to use a USB cable and if you do use one it requires an adapter.

 

So tonight I experimented with removing the iFi Gemini USB cable and female Type A to female Type B adapter I was using, in order to plug the GO 1000 directly into an iFi iUSBPower supply.

 

My initial impression is a larger sound stage and more dynamic slam, especially in the bass region where there seems to be a little more agility and articulation too.

 

GO 1000 plugged directly into iFi iUSBPower.


Edited by MikeyFresh - 4/4/14 at 8:52pm
post #154 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post

All other USB DACs I've ever owned had a female Type B input jack, requiring the use of a USB cable with a male Type B plug.

The GO 1000 is the first unit I've owned with a male Type A plug connection, meaning you don't have to use a USB cable and if you do use one it requires an adapter.

So tonight I experimented with removing the iFi Gemini USB cable and female Type A to female Type B adapter I was using, in order to plug the GO 1000 directly into an iFi iUSBPower supply.

My initial impression is a larger sound stage and more dynamic slam, especially in the bass region where there seems to be a little more agility and articulation too.

GO 1000 plugged directly into iFi iUSBPower.

Mikeyfresh, is the change subtle or very apparent? If you could assign a %, what increase in SQ would you give the ifi iUSB + GO pairing? Thanks.
post #155 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtruong34 View Post

Mikeyfresh, is the change subtle or very apparent? If you could assign a %, what increase in SQ would you give the ifi iUSB + GO pairing? Thanks.

I would call it more apparent than subtle, however that's really where specifically defining it ends. These kinds of differences are far too subjective to precisely quantify or assign a numerical % or dollar amount.

Other people may like doing that, but my mind doesn't work that way, I just have no idea how to even create or set that scale, much less start using it to rate differences.

You also have the difficulty in determining exactly what is causing the amount of perceptual change that is occurring. In this case is it the removal of the dual head iFi Gemini cable itself, complete with it's sliding/variable RF blockers, or can I point the finger more squarely at the cheap Type A to Type B female USB adapter needed to connect the GO 1000 to that cable?

iFi Gemini dual head USB cable, fitted with a cheapo female Type B to Female Type A adapter.

I also haven't forgotten the GO 1000 is still likely in an initial break-in period. Are any differences I am hearing over several hours of listening last night at least in part attributable to additional burn in occurring? Maybe.
Finally, I also thought there was an increase in transparency/immediacy on some close miked vocals. But the overall effect on some other lesser recordings wasn't nearly as impressive.

After I further acclimate to the system sound as it is now, I'll make one last swap, removing the iUSBPower and replacing it with the Vaunix Lab Brick.
Edited by MikeyFresh - 4/5/14 at 8:43am
post #156 of 1212

I got the Geek Out 1000 a few days ago.  It sounds amazing with the LCD-2!  Should I plug the headphones into the output that's labeled 0.47 ohm? 

 

I'm also trying to use the Geek Out 1000 as a DAC for my powered desktop speakers.  When I set the Geek Out's volume to max and use the speaker's volume control, I get distortions when music reach loud passages.  This doesn't seem normal, does it?

And should I plug the powered speakers into the output labeled 47 ohm and has the line out icon? 

post #157 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmf22 View Post
 

I got the Geek Out 1000 a few days ago.  It sounds amazing with the LCD-2!  Should I plug the headphones into the output that's labeled 0.47 ohm? 

 

I'm also trying to use the Geek Out 1000 as a DAC for my powered desktop speakers.  When I set the Geek Out's volume to max and use the speaker's volume control, I get distortions when music reach loud passages.  This doesn't seem normal, does it?

And should I plug the powered speakers into the output labeled 47 ohm and has the line out icon? 

0.47 ohm for headphones and 47 ohm for speakers

post #158 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmf22 View Post
 

I got the Geek Out 1000 a few days ago.  It sounds amazing with the LCD-2!  Should I plug the headphones into the output that's labeled 0.47 ohm? 

 

I'm also trying to use the Geek Out 1000 as a DAC for my powered desktop speakers.  When I set the Geek Out's volume to max and use the speaker's volume control, I get distortions when music reach loud passages.  This doesn't seem normal, does it?

And should I plug the powered speakers into the output labeled 47 ohm and has the line out icon? 

I don't think you want to set the 1000 at max volume.  If you can, figure out where approximately 2vrms is and use that level.  That is usually the standard single ended output for DACs.

post #159 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolo View Post
 

0.47 ohm for headphones and 47 ohm for speakers

 

Good, I had the speakers and headphones at the correct outputs. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post
 

I don't think you want to set the 1000 at max volume.  If you can, figure out where approximately 2vrms is and use that level.  That is usually the standard single ended output for DACs.

 

What's the best way to figure out 2vrms?  The specifications say the Geek Out 1000's max output is 4vrms.  So is 2vrms at 50%?

Is it best to adjust the volume using JRiver's internal 64-bit volume control, or Light Harmonic's drivers (if so which slider should I adjust; "Master" or "Analog 1/2"?  (Pushing the physical buttons on the Geek Out seems to change the "Master" slider.)

post #160 of 1212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post
 

I don't think you want to set the 1000 at max volume.  If you can, figure out where approximately 2vrms is and use that level.  That is usually the standard single ended output for DACs.

EXACTLY what I would recommend!

 

That is an advantage of the HRT microStreamer (one line-level/2.25v output for use as a DAC, and the other a headphone output).

I think, PERHAPS, the Geek Out wouldv'e been better served by doing that instead of the dual headphone out - but just thinking out-loud...

 

@FraGGleR's DEAD on. I'd try the Geek Out 1000s output at around 75-80% output to your powered monitors. To maybe get close to 

his suggestion...

post #161 of 1212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post


I would call it more apparent than subtle, however that's really where specifically defining it ends. These kinds of differences are far too subjective to precisely quantify or assign a numerical % or dollar amount.

Other people may like doing that, but my mind doesn't work that way, I just have no idea how to even create or set that scale, much less start using it to rate differences.

You also have the difficulty in determining exactly what is causing the amount of perceptual change that is occurring. In this case is it the removal of the dual head iFi Gemini cable itself, complete with it's sliding/variable RF blockers, or can I point the finger more squarely at the cheap Type A to Type B female USB adapter needed to connect the GO 1000 to that cable?

iFi Gemini dual head USB cable, fitted with a cheapo female Type B to Female Type A adapter.

I also haven't forgotten the GO 1000 is still likely in an initial break-in period. Are any differences I am hearing over several hours of listening last night at least in part attributable to additional burn in occurring? Maybe.
Finally, I also thought there was an increase in transparency/immediacy on some close miked vocals. But the overall effect on some other lesser recordings wasn't nearly as impressive.

After I further acclimate to the system sound as it is now, I'll make one last swap, removing the iUSBPower and replacing it with the Vaunix Lab Brick.

I agree with @MikeyFresh there..

 

and I have definitely been experiencing break-in with my Geek Out 1000:

 

As I approach my third week with it - overall clarity has increased, creating even more bottom-end extension and midrange silkiness.

I can also pick out natural decays even more-so now...

post #162 of 1212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyFresh View Post
 

All other USB DACs I've ever owned had a female Type B input jack, requiring the use of a USB cable with a male Type B plug.

 

The GO 1000 is the first unit I've owned with a male Type A plug connection, meaning you don't have to use a USB cable and if you do use one it requires an adapter.

 

So tonight I experimented with removing the iFi Gemini USB cable and female Type A to female Type B adapter I was using, in order to plug the GO 1000 directly into an iFi iUSBPower supply.

 

My initial impression is a larger sound stage and more dynamic slam, especially in the bass region where there seems to be a little more agility and articulation too.

 

GO 1000 plugged directly into iFi iUSBPower.

WOW!!

I'm going to try this immediately!!!

NICE ONE!!

post #163 of 1212

Switching back and forth between the Geek Out and my current rig costing over double (and many, many times the size) I think the larger rig is slightly smoother, but they are very close so I may be imagining it. Amazing achievement no matter how you look at it.

 

1. Is the Out supposed to default at max volume when you plug it in? This is annoying.

2. How do you engage the awesomeizer (Windows)?

post #164 of 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbradley02 View Post
 

Switching back and forth between the Geek Out and my current rig costing over double (and many, many times the size) I think the larger rig is slightly smoother, but they are very close so I may be imagining it. Amazing achievement no matter how you look at it.

 

1. Is the Out supposed to default at max volume when you plug it in? This is annoying.

2. How do you engage the awesomeizer (Windows)?


i seriously hope it doesn't default to max volume... i've already had my ears blown out a few times with my microstreamer because of games and other programs being set to max.

post #165 of 1212

Does anyone know what the current draw is for the GO 1000?

 

I had a chance to hook one up via OTG cable to my Nexus 7 (running UAPP app) at the NYC meet on Saturday but I was not able to get the USB sync, most likely due to the power needed to run the GO1000.

 

Anyone have the specs or a link to them for the GeekOut family of devices?

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