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Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Jan 16, 2017 at 3:28 PM Post #16,366 of 149,443
The brutal, blunt reality: while I'm sure we will look into what happened with Stereophile, we have a lot of other, more important things to do. I've written many times about how hard it is to get meaningful, repeatable measurements. This is with thousands of hours of dev time on a Stanford. We could get the Yggy back and it might be fine. But, like other audio nervosa stuff, I'm not going to worry about it.
 
After all, if you want a DAC with lower distortion and a lot more measurement-boner-inducing specs, save $2150 and get a Modi 2 Uber. Or you can pick something that sounds great to you, regardless of specs. Which might be an M2U anyway.
 
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Jan 16, 2017 at 3:30 PM Post #16,367 of 149,443
brubacca said:
Basically it sounds great and our oscilloscope didn't like it. Sorry to upset anyone, but...

Why does anyone care how it measures? As long as it isn't putting dangerous voltages where they shouldn't be, all that matters is how it sounds.

Am I missing something here?
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Well, yes.
 
Without narrowing in on the specifics of the Yggy, measurements can tell us things about about how a product is behaving in ways that the ear may not detect.
 
Jason has a whole post on measurements, why, what matters, etc http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/6990#post_11763661
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 5:40 PM Post #16,368 of 149,443
usaudio said:
  Anyone see the Yggdrasil review in the latest issue (Feb 2017) of Stereophile?
 
The subjective reviewer loved it.  However with the objective reviewer who performs the technical measurements, the results were mixed.  He felt the analog circuitry is superbly well designed, but that its digital circuitry is not fully optimized and hoped this could be addressed with a firmware upgrade.
 
Opinions of Stereophile among many folks are less than favorable but should Schiit decide a firmware upgrade is desired, can the Yggdrasil be upgraded by users in the field or must it be sent back to Schiit?
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Maybe because all he's used to seeing are the same delta sigma chips, and the MegaBurrito Filter works in ways the reviewer cannot comprehend.
 
Myself, I prefer salsa and chips. And Freya, OMG does she sound good!
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 5:47 PM Post #16,369 of 149,443
brubacca said:
Basically it sounds great and our oscilloscope didn't like it. Sorry to upset anyone, but...

Why does anyone care how it measures? As long as it isn't putting dangerous voltages where they shouldn't be, all that matters is how it sounds.

Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...


Except that Yggy does not only sound great: it also measures great, as per atomicbob's measurements back in 2015 (his oscilloscope actually did like it 
wink_face.gif
) . Please see here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
 
Please also see atomicbob's comments along the whole thread.  For example (post #32 at page 3 on that thread):
 
 Quote:Originally Posted by atomicbob /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
The jitter measurements are the lowest I have ever seen on a DAC. This represents a significant milestone in converter development. Congratulations to Mike Moffat and schiit!
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(I apologize in advance if you already knew the above thread, but I felt it was important we didn't forget what a wonderful masterpiece Yggdrasil (and the whole Schiit multibit DACs range) really is, not only from a sonic, but also a technical point of view.  And the two go often together).
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 6:04 PM Post #16,371 of 149,443
jason stoddard said:
  The brutal, blunt reality: while I'm sure we will look into what happened with Stereophile, we have a lot of other, more important things to do. I've written many times about how hard it is to get meaningful, repeatable measurements. This is with thousands of hours of dev time on a Stanford. We could get the Yggy back and it might be fine. But, like other audio nervosa stuff, I'm not going to worry about it.
 
After all, if you want a DAC with lower distortion and a lot more measurement-boner-inducing specs, save $2150 and get a Modi 2 Uber. Or you can pick something that sounds great to you, regardless of specs. Which might be an M2U anyway.
Click to expand...


What's the old saying, if it sounds good but measure poorly then you are measuring the wrong things ... and vice versa, eh?
 
Some very nice things were also said in the article about the Bifrost Multibit, of which I am a very pleased owner as well, along with a Lyr 2.
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 6:22 PM Post #16,372 of 149,443

Re. Class A
 
From a user perspective, what I'd want to know (I think) is that when the amp is running at rated power are all the power output devices continually flowing current somewhere in the linear part of their operating range or are half of them "off" at most points in time. May be over-simplifying.
 
Jason did not mention Vahalla 1 or 2 in his Class A amp list. When I read about WCF I thought that was considered Class A Push/Pull if driving a load impedance in the range the circuitry was designed for. Any further insights on that?
 
Thanks, Mike (owner of both an A2 and a V2)
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 7:37 PM Post #16,374 of 149,443
jason stoddard said:
  Yep, I hear you. If I had more experience with spring steel (and more time), I'd probably move the whole thing to a clip-based system with minimal mounting points. In this case, though, it's better to play it safe. We'll just move the holes.
 
Some photos, as promised:
 
 
...  

Bad engineer! How do you assemble this?
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Looks like you forgot to tighten one of those screws...
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 8:01 PM Post #16,375 of 149,443
Some good news, some bad news. 

The good news: the stamped steel clip approach for Vidar is feasible, and I'll be getting the order in tomorrow. 
 
The not so good news: with 6 weeks for tooling and 6 weeks for initial order, we're past the end of Q1 for delivery. 
 
Ah well, I'd rather do this right. And in the meantime, we can shake down everything else (I still need to test the sorbothane suspension system for the transformer, in any case.)
 
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Jan 16, 2017 at 8:03 PM Post #16,376 of 149,443
Don't mean to jump too far off topic, but since Freya/Vidar is being discussed, I don't think I'm too far off point.  Here it goes:
 
I'm drooling over an affordable (Freya) way to add tubes to my stereo setup driving my B&W 685s2's, but I'm not sure if I can.  I have my turn table (via a Schiit Mani), DVD/Blu-ray, Cable, Xbox, Roku and on and on into a Denon AVR X2100 right now running 5.1.  Is it possible to run the pre-outs from the AVR into an input on Freya?  So;
 
(All my HDMI sources) --> AVR  --> sub + Center and surrouds
AVR pre-out---> Freya --> Vidar --> Main 2 speakers
 
Then I could hook up all my nice music sources (DAC, Turntable, CD) into Freya for awesome 2 channel and still have my HDMI sources going to my front two speakers in a TV/movie setup?  
 
My concern is I would be pre-amping twice and get terrible distortion.  
 
Basically I'm fine downgrading from 5.1 to stereo because I prize music over movies/TV, but I'm struggling to figure out how to get the HDMI inputs sound into my chain if I invested in 2 channel Schiit.  Anyone else thought of this or come up with a solution?
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 8:22 PM Post #16,377 of 149,443
The JFET buffer is absolutely killer in my system, the tube stage sounds great, but in my setup the JFET is the way to go. The transparency of the JFET buffer is remarkable , i have never heard this see thru quality before in my setup. In my mind the JFET buffer is the schiit!
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 8:27 PM Post #16,378 of 149,443
paddlefoot said:
  The JFET buffer is absolutely killer in my system, the tube stage sounds great, but in my setup the JFET is the way to go. The transparency of the JFET buffer is remarkable , i have never heard this see thru quality before in my setup. In my mind the JFET buffer is the schiit!
Click to expand...

 
Nice that you don't need to roll tubes. Sadly for my system, tube stage with 5692 tubes gives the best synergy.
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 10:00 PM Post #16,379 of 149,443
paddlefoot said:
The JFET buffer is absolutely killer in my system, the tube stage sounds great, but in my setup the JFET is the way to go. The transparency of the JFET buffer is remarkable , i have never heard this see thru quality before in my setup. In my mind the JFET buffer is the schiit!
Click to expand...


Is the JFET warm enough? Does it have the tube sparkle?
 
Jan 16, 2017 at 10:24 PM Post #16,380 of 149,443
mumbles06 said:
  Don't mean to jump too far off topic, but since Freya/Vidar is being discussed, I don't think I'm too far off point.  Here it goes:
 
I'm drooling over an affordable (Freya) way to add tubes to my stereo setup driving my B&W 685s2's, but I'm not sure if I can.  I have my turn table (via a Schiit Mani), DVD/Blu-ray, Cable, Xbox, Roku and on and on into a Denon AVR X2100 right now running 5.1.  Is it possible to run the pre-outs from the AVR into an input on Freya?  So;
 
(All my HDMI sources) --> AVR  --> sub + Center and surrouds
AVR pre-out---> Freya --> Vidar --> Main 2 speakers
 
Then I could hook up all my nice music sources (DAC, Turntable, CD) into Freya for awesome 2 channel and still have my HDMI sources going to my front two speakers in a TV/movie setup?  
 
My concern is I would be pre-amping twice and get terrible distortion.  
 
Basically I'm fine downgrading from 5.1 to stereo because I prize music over movies/TV, but I'm struggling to figure out how to get the HDMI inputs sound into my chain if I invested in 2 channel Schiit.  Anyone else thought of this or come up with a solution?
Click to expand...

 
The Freyas tubes are on once its powered up. If you get into pricey tubes it seems like a waste when watching movies unless you want to pull the tubes every time.
2 Channel gets preference for me too I kept everything separate. I went with smaller wall mountable speakers and a separate AVR for surround sound. For 2 Channel Mani and Bimby feed The inputs on my freya.  If I wanted to use my 2 channel speakers as you are thinking of, I would have the output of the AVR going to a SYS Input and the output of the Freya going to the other sys Input. The SYS output to the power amp. Some may argue more components in the chain  or various other things but this will allow you to switch between 2 channel and AVR with out having to burn through or pull tubes to watch movies.
 
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