Hifiman he-400i Impressions and Discussion
Nov 12, 2014 at 10:00 AM Post #2,701 of 14,386
Alright, folks, the 400i + Vali combo is absolutely fantastic.  
 
The 400i will never be known for an expansive soundstage, but coming from the Asgard 1, the Vali does these headphones a lot of favors in this department.  I'm not sure I'd say the soundstage is "bigger" now, but the sound is more 3-dimensional and instrument separation/placement has improved substantially.
 
The added touch of liquidity to the sound provided by the tubes is a welcome one.
 
I've mentioned before that the HE-500 does a better job than the 400i in terms of producing a more organic/natural listening experience...a much closer representation of what live music sounds like.  The Vali helps the 400i close the gap.
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 10:29 AM Post #2,702 of 14,386
I bought into the 560 plus Pulse deal. I would like to think that perhaps the phones may be shipped sooner than the pulse. It has been asked whether this could happen on the LH forums. Larry said he thought that it could. Look for an announcement. I sure hope they do something like that. I hate to wait 6 or 7 months for something that they can have in stock in a few days or so.

BTW, I agree with Beaver316. The 400i is way, way more comfortable to use, long term, than the 400.

I was told by Larry in the pulse thread last night that they will ship separately from the pulse. So that's good news. Not sure on time frame though.
I am curious to try the 400i, but not in a big hurry. I have other dacs and the HD800 to keep me busy over the cold winter months :) 
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM Post #2,703 of 14,386
I was told by Larry in the pulse thread last night that they will ship separately from the pulse. So that's good news. Not sure on time frame though.
I am curious to try the 400i, but not in a big hurry. I have other dacs and the HD800 to keep me busy over the cold winter months :) 


Which thread was that? There are a bunch of different ones under the Pulse section.
I saw one post by Larry that said.. basically, that he had no problem with them being shipped separately, but that Gavin etc. would make an announcement later about it.

I am always in a big hurry/impatient when I have given someone money for something that I don't have. That is one big reason why this whole crowdsourcing thing is very difficult for me.
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 11:57 AM Post #2,704 of 14,386
  I was told by Larry in the pulse thread last night that they will ship separately from the pulse. So that's good news. Not sure on time frame though.
I am curious to try the 400i, but not in a big hurry. I have other dacs and the HD800 to keep me busy over the cold winter months :) 

 
Interesting - cuz my upgrade path from the 400i is the HD800 heh, im hoping there will be a refresh or new flagship, something like HD850 similiar to the HE-560
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM Post #2,705 of 14,386
Which thread was that? There are a bunch of different ones under the Pulse section.
I saw one post by Larry that said.. basically, that he had no problem with them being shipped separately, but that Gavin etc. would make an announcement later about it.

I am always in a big hurry/impatient when I have given someone money for something that I don't have. That is one big reason why this whole crowdsourcing thing is very difficult for me.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/687851/geek-pulse-geek-desktop-dac-amp-by-light-harmonics/2610#post_11039541 post#2615
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 12:25 PM Post #2,706 of 14,386
   
Interesting - cuz my upgrade path from the 400i is the HD800 heh, im hoping there will be a refresh or new flagship, something like HD850 similiar to the HE-560

Sounds like a new flagship is coming, but it will more than likely be an electrostat.
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 12:44 PM Post #2,707 of 14,386
Nov 12, 2014 at 1:11 PM Post #2,708 of 14,386
About the Geek Pulse bundle. I would understand pairing it with the He560 but is there really a point to using it with the He400i since even a portable amp can drive them just fine.
 
I'm contemplating it but until anyone can provide any objective proof that it will improve sound in a way that EQ and other software cannot provide, I cannot justify spending another 300 dollars on a dedicated desktop amp.
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM Post #2,709 of 14,386
About the Geek Pulse bundle. I would understand pairing it with the He560 but is there really a point to using it with the He400i since even a portable amp can drive them just fine.

I'm contemplating it but until anyone can provide any objective proof that it will improve sound in a way that EQ and other software cannot provide, I cannot justify spending another 300 dollars on a dedicated desktop amp.


I don't think that there is any objective proof. I have not seen any test data on the Pulse other than from LH Labs. Not that I don't trust them... they have a couple grand of my money. It is just good to see data from other sources. I have not seen anyone that has a review using the HE 400i. It also depends upon where you are coming from.
What are you using now?

I tend to like the 400i from many sources, including my X5. But I have to crank the X5 almost wide open with the 400i. It also definitely improves with added power. Even the FiiO E12 makes a noticeable difference, especially in the clarity and impact of the lower frequencies. The hope is that with a quality DAC and 3 watts out the Pulse will make anything you plug into it sound good. It also supports ALL of the codecs and sampling rates currently in use (for whatever that is worth to you).

BTW, I am not promoting anything, but if the box is all that it is supposed to be, and it actually can fetch $1K on the open retail market, $300 is quite a deal.
Of course, there are a bunch of assumptions that you have to buy into to get there. Obviously, if you can't justify the $300, you shouldn't buy it, regardless of what anyone tells you about what it "should" do (sight unseen/unheard at that).
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM Post #2,710 of 14,386
  About the Geek Pulse bundle. I would understand pairing it with the He560 but is there really a point to using it with the He400i since even a portable amp can drive them just fine.
 
I'm contemplating it but until anyone can provide any objective proof that it will improve sound in a way that EQ and other software cannot provide, I cannot justify spending another 300 dollars on a dedicated desktop amp.

I don't think there is a point except good deal on a dac and hey free headphones. Your getting a $999(MSRP) dac and a $500 set of headphones for $698. That's a good deal IMO.
I think it's a great way to get people that are interested in the Pulse to pull the trigger rather the Pulse is overkill with the 400i or not...
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 1:45 PM Post #2,711 of 14,386
I don't think that there is any objective proof. I have not seen any test data on the Pulse other than from LH Labs. Not that I don't trust them... they have a couple grand of my money. It is just good to see data from other sources. I have not seen anyone that has a review using the HE 400i. It also depends upon where you are coming from.
What are you using now?

I tend to like the 400i from many sources, including my X5. But I have to crank the X5 almost wide open with the 400i. It also definitely improves with added power. Even the FiiO E12 makes a noticeable difference, especially in the clarity and impact of the lower frequencies. The hope is that with a quality DAC and 3 watts out the Pulse will make anything you plug into it sound good. It also supports ALL of the codecs and sampling rates currently in use (for whatever that is worth to you).

BTW, I am not promoting anything, but if the box is all that it is supposed to be, and it actually can fetch $1K on the open retail market, $300 is quite a deal.
Of course, there are a bunch of assumptions that you have to buy into to get there. Obviously, if you can't justify the $300, you shouldn't buy it, regardless of what anyone tells you about what it "should" do (sight unseen/unheard at that).

 
I'm using the C5D as my source and they sound fine.
 
I guess you and RingingEars have a point about the resale value of the amp. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it.
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 4:04 PM Post #2,712 of 14,386
So, here is my long overdue review of my he-400i touring pair.

Some background. I work as an audio engineer in a theatre and am a musician who records in his home studio as well. In other words, I like and I need neutral! I don't have a ton of headphone experience but my home studio consists of very flat studio monitors (Neumann) and a very high quality audio interface (Prismsound) which doubles as my headphone amp so I have a very good reference for the kind of sound signature I'm after. I basically want the sound of my monitors but in headphone format to mix at night, which is not an easy thing to achieve.

I have owned technics phones, ultrasone, beyer dt250, akg k271 phones and currently own Sony mdr 7500, a 200$ pair so called monitor phones. I also own hifiman re400 in-ears which are my preferred sound signature of the bunch. I basically want those with a bit more bass and openness.

In Japan earlier this year I went to the coolest headphone shop ever where I also briefly tried almost all the high end cans from audeze, sennheiser, beyer etc, but only briefly and from my iPhone.

On to the he400i:

Build, packaging, comfort etc:
All very nicely done, except the cable is too short imo. When plugged into my sound card I cannot reach another guitar in my rack without taking off the headphones. Very frustrating. Comfort wise the phones are very nice. I'm usually not a fan of velours pads as I find them to be itchy but these are quite nice since they're not totally velours. The sound does bleed being an open can.

Customer service:
Hifiman has been great to deal with, even when my previous re400 broke. Very very nice and helpful people to deal with.

Sound:
Before my 400i testing I let them burn in for 150hours, playing my iTunes list randomly.

I know people say you need to get used to a pair of phones, but I always try to remember my very first impression since that usually ends up being my conclusion as well after the honeymoon phase. And in this case that impression was: "Very nice timbre, satisfying detailed bass and mids but somewhat veiled upper mids or lower highs, but I'm actually very impressed! I could get used to this!" There was no contest compared to my sony's which are very mid centric in comparison.

Soundstage was ok but not huge. I would have expected it to be a bit more spacious to be honest but nothing to complain about.

Attack from drums and cymbals were very crisp and pleasing and bass had enough power and speed for me, completely satisfied in that department. Separation was also really good with enough space for everything to breathe, if it was in the mix of course. I switched over to my sony's, re400's and monitors many times to compare.

But after prolonged listening, comparing and especially after listening to one of my own songs on my monitors and re400, switching to the he400i didn't quite translate as I had expected. I noticed that my mix just lacked a bit of presence in the vocals and electric guitars on the 400i, frequencies which are very important to me. To double check, I did my sine sweep test:

When I demo monitors or phones I always run a 60sec sine sweep from 20hz to 20khz through them with a spectrum analyzer on to see what their problems are. I listen if the volume of the sweep throughout the frequencies is consistent, looking for parts where it gets louder or quieter. This test revealed that the he-400i is for the most part fairly linear with minor fluctuations going up the bass and mids, until we arrive at the 1.8-2khz region, where it takes a considerable dip, which I had noticed in my mix and other songs before. You could say vocals and electric guitars although clear and defined, sound just a tad in the background, like 3db's, but 3 essential db's imo. Some could say it sounds veiled.
Oddly enough, I find the re-400 to be more neutral and upfront, which I prefer but didn't expect considering they are 100$ in ears.

After this realization I still listened to them a lot to get used to them, and my quarrels often disappeared after a while due to my brains adjusting, but I would still put more 2khz than necessary when mixing with them.

Conclusion:
Although the he400i has a very good sound texture and a reasonably flat frequency response, the dip in the 2khz range reveals their 'target market' imo, which is more for a listener looking for a neutral-ish set of cans that sound really great across the spectrum but which 'help out' a little by suppressing certain frequencies to combat potential sibilance issues. It's a listeners headphone, and not a mixing headphone.

With that in mind, I think hifiman did a very good job with these at this price point, but with a few minor faults that are sadly essential to me personally.

I bought the touring pair, but mostly because of the good deal and to be able to compare them when I order my paradox. If the paradox fixes the 2khz problem I will most likely sell them to a nice forum member here who wants 30% off :wink:

Cheers!
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 4:27 PM Post #2,713 of 14,386
 
So, here is my long overdue review of my he-400i touring pair.

Some background. I work as an audio engineer in a theatre and am a musician who records in his home studio as well. In other words, I like and I need neutral! I don't have a ton of headphone experience but my home studio consists of very flat studio monitors (Neumann) and a very high quality audio interface (Prismsound) which doubles as my headphone amp so I have a very good reference for the kind of sound signature I'm after. I basically want the sound of my monitors but in headphone format to mix at night, which is not an easy thing to achieve.

I have owned technics phones, ultrasone, beyer dt250, akg k271 phones and currently own Sony mdr 7500, a 200$ pair so called monitor phones. I also own hifiman re400 in-ears which are my preferred sound signature of the bunch. I basically want those with a bit more bass and openness.

In Japan earlier this year I went to the coolest headphone shop ever where I also briefly tried almost all the high end cans from audeze, sennheiser, beyer etc, but only briefly and from my iPhone.

On to the he400i:

Build, packaging, comfort etc:
All very nicely done, except the cable is too short imo. When plugged into my sound card I cannot reach another guitar in my rack without taking off the headphones. Very frustrating. Comfort wise the phones are very nice. I'm usually not a fan of velours pads as I find them to be itchy but these are quite nice since they're not totally velours. The sound does bleed being an open can.

Customer service:
Hifiman has been great to deal with, even when my previous re400 broke. Very very nice and helpful people to deal with.

Sound:
Before my 400i testing I let them burn in for 150hours, playing my iTunes list randomly.

I know people say you need to get used to a pair of phones, but I always try to remember my very first impression since that usually ends up being my conclusion as well after the honeymoon phase. And in this case that impression was: "Very nice timbre, satisfying detailed bass and mids but somewhat veiled upper mids or lower highs, but I'm actually very impressed! I could get used to this!" There was no contest compared to my sony's which are very mid centric in comparison.

Soundstage was ok but not huge. I would have expected it to be a bit more spacious to be honest but nothing to complain about.

Attack from drums and cymbals were very crisp and pleasing and bass had enough power and speed for me, completely satisfied in that department. Separation was also really good with enough space for everything to breathe, if it was in the mix of course. I switched over to my sony's, re400's and monitors many times to compare.

But after prolonged listening, comparing and especially after listening to one of my own songs on my monitors and re400, switching to the he400i didn't quite translate as I had expected. I noticed that my mix just lacked a bit of presence in the vocals and electric guitars on the 400i, frequencies which are very important to me. To double check, I did my sine sweep test:

When I demo monitors or phones I always run a 60sec sine sweep from 20hz to 20khz through them with a spectrum analyzer on to see what their problems are. I listen if the volume of the sweep throughout the frequencies is consistent, looking for parts where it gets louder or quieter. This test revealed that the he-400i is for the most part fairly linear with minor fluctuations going up the bass and mids, until we arrive at the 1.8-2khz region, where it takes a considerable dip, which I had noticed in my mix and other songs before. You could say vocals and electric guitars although clear and defined, sound just a tad in the background, like 3db's, but 3 essential db's imo. Some could say it sounds veiled.
Oddly enough, I find the re-400 to be more neutral and upfront, which I prefer but didn't expect considering they are 100$ in ears.

After this realization I still listened to them a lot to get used to them, and my quarrels often disappeared after a while due to my brains adjusting, but I would still put more 2khz than necessary when mixing with them.

Conclusion:
Although the he400i has a very good sound texture and a reasonably flat frequency response, the dip in the 2khz range reveals their 'target market' imo, which is more for a listener looking for a neutral-ish set of cans that sound really great across the spectrum but which 'help out' a little by suppressing certain frequencies to combat potential sibilance issues. It's a listeners headphone, and not a mixing headphone.

With that in mind, I think hifiman did a very good job with these at this price point, but with a few minor faults that are sadly essential to me personally.

I bought the touring pair, but mostly because of the good deal and to be able to compare them when I order my paradox. If the paradox fixes the 2khz problem I will most likely sell them to a nice forum member here who wants 30% off
wink.gif


Cheers!
 

Good read.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. 
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 7:22 PM Post #2,714 of 14,386
  Alright, folks, the 400i + Vali combo is absolutely fantastic.  
 
The 400i will never be known for an expansive soundstage, but coming from the Asgard 1, the Vali does these headphones a lot of favors in this department.  I'm not sure I'd say the soundstage is "bigger" now, but the sound is more 3-dimensional and instrument separation/placement has improved substantially.
 
The added touch of liquidity to the sound provided by the tubes is a welcome one.
 
I've mentioned before that the HE-500 does a better job than the 400i in terms of producing a more organic/natural listening experience...a much closer representation of what live music sounds like.  The Vali helps the 400i close the gap.


I have to agree with this assessment. Listening to the Modi/Vali/400i combo as I write this and it is very enjoyable.  
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 7:26 PM Post #2,715 of 14,386
Conclusion:
Although the he400i has a very good sound texture and a reasonably flat frequency response, the dip in the 2khz range reveals their 'target market' imo, which is more for a listener looking for a neutral-ish set of cans that sound really great across the spectrum but which 'help out' a little by suppressing certain frequencies to combat potential sibilance issues. It's a listeners headphone, and not a mixing headphone.

With that in mind, I think hifiman did a very good job with these at this price point, but with a few minor faults that are sadly essential to me personally.

I bought the touring pair, but mostly because of the good deal and to be able to compare them when I order my paradox. If the paradox fixes the 2khz problem I will most likely sell them to a nice forum member here who wants 30% off
wink.gif


Cheers!

Nicely done!  I would never use them for monitoring or mixing either.  I sometimes like to use headphones out of my Eden Navigator bass amp. For that purpose, the Alpha Dogs are the nest I've heard to date, the 400i's sound just a tad off.  BTW, I play an extended-range bass that actually plays well into guitar range.
 
But for pure fun and excitement, I'm thrilled with the 400i's and that slight dip you mention at about 2K, which is a source for 'gak' on my bass rig.  Goes towards explaining why I like the sound so much.
 

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