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The Astell & Kern AK240 - Page 168

post #2506 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post
 

Can you hear a difference between 24/196 and DSD?

 

I just can't help but give my input on this issue regarding DSD vs hi-res pcm files. I know it is a controversial topic but I feel there is a lot of misinformation on DSD.

 

Firstly, from my understanding, a lot of DSD files are originally from PCM. Of course, there are some music natively recorded in DSD. That is great. Secondly, you cannot compare a natively recorded DSD file with a ANOTHER recording in hi-res PCM. The variable is in the recording. To be fair, you need to compare the same recording - in different formats.

 

Now try this : Get hold of a natively recorded DSD file and convert it to 24bits 96/192khz. Compare it with your AK240 or Chord Hugo. Do make sure that both files are volume matched. If using Foobar2000, make sure you set it up correctly to play DSD. Do you hear a big difference? I seriously doubt so. I have tested this on the AK240 and Hugo. To my ears, there is hardly a difference. A friend of mine who tested DSD vs PCM also found little or no difference. Noticed that I used "hardly a difference" and "little or no difference." This is because I believe that our minds can play tricks on us and we are naturally biased. We want to hear a difference. So the best way to test this is to do a blind test. If you can consistently pick out a DSD file over the hi-res PCM from the same recording, then good for you. You have golden ears.

 

Please understand that I am not saying that DSD is inferior to hi-res PCM. To me, it boils down to the recording. I have DSD files that are only so so in terms of sound quality. But I also have excellent DSD files. The same with PCM files. I am not sure if there are players that are configured to play DSD files better than PCM. I certainly hope not.

 

Peace to all :D

post #2507 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanYWM View Post

I just can't help but give my input on this issue regarding DSD vs hi-res pcm files. I know it is a controversial topic but I feel there is a lot of misinformation on DSD.

Firstly, from my understanding, a lot of DSD files are originally from PCM. Of course, there are some music natively recorded in DSD. That is great. Secondly, you cannot compare a natively recorded DSD file with a ANOTHER recording in hi-res PCM. The variable is in the recording. To be fair, you need to compare the same recording - in different formats.

Now try this : Get hold of a natively recorded DSD file and convert it to 24bits 96/192khz. Compare it with your AK240 or Chord Hugo. Do make sure that both files are volume matched. If using Foobar2000, make sure you set it up correctly to play DSD. Do you hear a big difference? I seriously doubt so. I have tested this on the AK240 and Hugo. To my ears, there is hardly a difference. A friend of mine who tested DSD vs PCM also found little or no difference. Noticed that I used "hardly a difference" and "little or no difference." This is because I believe that our minds can play tricks on us and we are naturally biased. We want to hear a difference. So the best way to test this is to do a blind test. If you can consistently pick out a DSD file over the hi-res PCM from the same recording, then good for you. You have golden ears.

Please understand that I am not saying that DSD is inferior to hi-res PCM. To me, it boils down to the recording. I have DSD files that are only so so in terms of sound quality. But I also have excellent DSD files. The same with PCM files. I am not sure if there are players that are configured to play DSD files better than PCM. I certainly hope not.

Peace to all biggrin.gif

I think you make a lot of sense.
post #2508 of 4991
Has anyone tried downloading music directly to the AK-240, from groovers? They say there adding more sites in the future.
post #2509 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanYWM View Post

I just can't help but give my input on this issue regarding DSD vs hi-res pcm files. I know it is a controversial topic but I feel there is a lot of misinformation on DSD.

Firstly, from my understanding, a lot of DSD files are originally from PCM. Of course, there are some music natively recorded in DSD. That is great. Secondly, you cannot compare a natively recorded DSD file with a ANOTHER recording in hi-res PCM. The variable is in the recording. To be fair, you need to compare the same recording - in different formats.

Now try this : Get hold of a natively recorded DSD file and convert it to 24bits 96/192khz. Compare it with your AK240 or Chord Hugo. Do make sure that both files are volume matched. If using Foobar2000, make sure you set it up correctly to play DSD. Do you hear a big difference? I seriously doubt so. I have tested this on the AK240 and Hugo. To my ears, there is hardly a difference. A friend of mine who tested DSD vs PCM also found little or no difference. Noticed that I used "hardly a difference" and "little or no difference." This is because I believe that our minds can play tricks on us and we are naturally biased. We want to hear a difference. So the best way to test this is to do a blind test. If you can consistently pick out a DSD file over the hi-res PCM from the same recording, then good for you. You have golden ears.

Please understand that I am not saying that DSD is inferior to hi-res PCM. To me, it boils down to the recording. I have DSD files that are only so so in terms of sound quality. But I also have excellent DSD files. The same with PCM files. I am not sure if there are players that are configured to play DSD files better than PCM. I certainly hope not.

Peace to all biggrin.gif

Not all DSD file are very Good , some is bad , My WAV SQ better .
If We found veriy Good DSD recording , than My WAV file i heard No so full sound .

Please read more info regarding DSD music file For Your Reference

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711318/dsd-music-file-impression-and-appreciation-thread-and-file-sharing-link
Edited by rudi0504 - 3/23/14 at 6:31am
post #2510 of 4991

I still prefer a 24/192 file to any DSD. Just nice to have quality formats available. 

post #2511 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanYWM View Post
 

 

I just can't help but give my input on this issue regarding DSD vs hi-res pcm files. I know it is a controversial topic but I feel there is a lot of misinformation on DSD.

 

Firstly, from my understanding, a lot of DSD files are originally from PCM. Of course, there are some music natively recorded in DSD. That is great. Secondly, you cannot compare a natively recorded DSD file with a ANOTHER recording in hi-res PCM. The variable is in the recording. To be fair, you need to compare the same recording - in different formats.

 

Now try this : Get hold of a natively recorded DSD file and convert it to 24bits 96/192khz. Compare it with your AK240 or Chord Hugo. Do make sure that both files are volume matched. If using Foobar2000, make sure you set it up correctly to play DSD. Do you hear a big difference? I seriously doubt so. I have tested this on the AK240 and Hugo. To my ears, there is hardly a difference. A friend of mine who tested DSD vs PCM also found little or no difference. Noticed that I used "hardly a difference" and "little or no difference." This is because I believe that our minds can play tricks on us and we are naturally biased. We want to hear a difference. So the best way to test this is to do a blind test. If you can consistently pick out a DSD file over the hi-res PCM from the same recording, then good for you. You have golden ears.

 

Please understand that I am not saying that DSD is inferior to hi-res PCM. To me, it boils down to the recording. I have DSD files that are only so so in terms of sound quality. But I also have excellent DSD files. The same with PCM files. I am not sure if there are players that are configured to play DSD files better than PCM. I certainly hope not.

 

 

Peace to all :D

Intellectually, I totally agree with your note.  It is highly unlikely that the majority of human ears could sense a meaningful difference between hi-res PCM from DSD assuming they are both well engineered.  

 

That said, I perceive DSD recordings on my AK240 to be fuller and easier to listen to.  I have to assume it is due to the placebo effect.  Since I plopped $2,500 down for the DAP and another couple of hundred dollars for some well engineered DSDs it MUST sound fantastic.  I fully embrace the value of the placebo effect.  

 

Cheers to the placebo! :beerchug:

post #2512 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by buruma View Post

=)
thanks Buruma for the guide. my version of Bal to Bal
post #2513 of 4991

mmmm.....anyone having a 'funky' loose 2.5mm connection on their AK240?

 

read somewhere here someone has the same symptoms.

post #2514 of 4991
I'm using a 2.5 mm from Moon Audio, pretty snug, no movement . You seeing a difference in SQ, with amp hood up? That looks like ALO MK
post #2515 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by sutjahjo View Post


I think you make a lot of sense.

DSD v/s PCM SQ ?    I can't even ear a difference between 24/96 and 24/192 !  and I tried hard many times ! :rolleyes:   so now I always download 24/96 even if 24/192 is available !  (save storage space and...money)


Edited by bmichels - 3/23/14 at 10:50am
post #2516 of 4991
Takes a good ear ,but MP-3 is the devil, minimum I download is16/44
post #2517 of 4991

I own a few DSD album but plenty of SACDs, and is in the process to get them digitized, and I enjoyed the these DSF files on my AK240.  Having said that I tried converting them to FLAC and 320k mp3 and the only format I can differentiate somewhat accurately is the mp3.  I cannot picked out the DSF and FLAC at all.   YMMV.  

 

While it is nice to have "native DSD decode" capability on the AK240, to me it is simply a convenient means to play certain album I may or may not have pre-processed into PCM format.  Personally I feel AK240 "sound better" with DSD materials vs other players is really not due to the DSD playback capability, but more to do with it's neutral sound signature and high transparency that tends to allow better produced (performed/recorded/mastered/converted) materials to be presented with higher fidelity and DSD materials (either native, or ripped from SACD) tend to be better produced in general.  I'm a bit befuddled by the recent hypes of DSD.

 

In summary, I like my DSD music because they are good music, not because they are DSD.  I like AK240 as it make my DSD music sound good, not because it can play DSD natively.

post #2518 of 4991

Well, my fellow AK240 listeners.......I spent more on DSD music yesterday than I planned. Once there was one album in the cart.....the addict in me took over.  For Rock there is really slim pickings available.  I've got 10 albums loaded and in a hour or so I be listening.

 

Rudi, what do I tell my wife when the credit card bill comes in at the end of the month?   :eek:   :tongue_smile:   :ksc75smile:  LOL

 

Here's an unlikely story.  Yesterday I stepped on something so I looked down on my hardwood floor there was a little black square of plastic. I noticed that it had the A&K  'A' logo on it. I racked my brains trying to figure out what the hell it could be? At first it looked like it was a broken off piece, but from what? The player; nope nothing black and besides it would not fit anywhere after I went they the whole image of it in my mind.  Looking at it again, no rough edges so not a broken piece. It was late, so I put it on top of  something white, near my computer, and in the morning while the DSD files transferred, I would go thru the box it came in and take the 240 out of the case and look.

 

Woke up and first thing I did was get the 20 gigs transferring and then when I looked for the little square I realized I forgot about it when I picked up the case it was on, so it went flying again.  Found it again, after reading the manual, discovered it was a 2nd microSD cover.......

 

Now, I first got the player about a month ago so this little cover has been laying about all this time. Lest you think we don't vacuum our house, my wife says "Oh yea, I found it a few weeks ago and put it on the coffee table" Amazing it did not get lost.

 

And the big question: Why a 2nd cover and only 1 slot!  Anyways......

post #2519 of 4991
Placebo or not DSD sounds fantastic.
If there is 1 to get it is Blow by Blow ~ Jeff Beck.
I've never heard it as good on a portable rig. Can't wait to listen with the LCD rig.
post #2520 of 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post
 

And the big question: Why a 2nd cover and only 1 slot!  Anyways......

 

It's obviously (dah) a message from the Hi-Res God(s) reminding you of the lameness of AK for not providing TWO SD slots ala the 100 and 120. You will always be reminded that there should have been a place for that 2nd cover. Now it's just an orphan to AK's compomises.

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