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HiFiMAN HM-901 visit pg 18. IMGS pg 19. NEW beta FW 1st page. . to the 901s. .new 901s FW .
Dec 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM Post #1,681 of 3,445
I do recall I can pick up some noise when using Heir 5.0 when not playing music with balance on. I guess its normal cos those iem pick up noise when plugging to other DAp as well..
 
Dec 17, 2013 at 7:24 PM Post #1,682 of 3,445
cosmicholyghost said:
I do recall I can pick up some noise when using Heir 5.0 when not playing music with balance on. I guess its normal cos those iem pick up noise when plugging to other DAp as well..
Click to expand...

Thank you for your information.
 
I have just received Drew's opinion from MoonAudio:
 
The Balanced card is probably to powerful for the JH13pro thus higher noise level. You should really use the IEM card which is designed for high sensitivity IEMs that are susceptible to back ground noise. The balanced card is really for less sensitive and more demanding headphones.
Thank You.
Drew Baird, P.E. 
Moon Audio 
140 Iowa Lane
Suite 204
Cary, NC 27511
919-649-5018 
drew@moon-audio.com
http://www.moon-audio.com
 
Follow us Today!
 
 
 
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM,  wrote:
Hi Drew,
 
could you let me know your expert opinion, please?
I have HM901+balanced card+JH13ProFreq.+Silver Dragon V1 TRRS connecor.
The noise level I hear is higher with HM901 balanced switched ON than OFF.
Is not it strange? When the "ground" is separated the noise should be lower…
 
Dec 18, 2013 at 8:51 PM Post #1,684 of 3,445
cosmicholyghost said:
I do recall I can pick up some noise when using Heir 5.0 when not playing music with balance on. I guess its normal cos those iem pick up noise when plugging to other DAp as well..
Click to expand...

 
 
brasilsamba said:
  Thank you for your information.
 
I have just received Drew's opinion from MoonAudio:
 
The Balanced card is probably to powerful for the JH13pro thus higher noise level. You should really use the IEM card which is designed for high sensitivity IEMs that are susceptible to back ground noise. The balanced card is really for less sensitive and more demanding headphones.
Thank You.
Drew Baird, P.E. 
Moon Audio 
140 Iowa Lane
Suite 204
Cary, NC 27511
919-649-5018 
drew@moon-audio.com
http://www.moon-audio.com
 
Follow us Today!
 
 
 
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:55 PM,  wrote:
Hi Drew,
 
could you let me know your expert opinion, please?
I have HM901+balanced card+JH13ProFreq.+Silver Dragon V1 TRRS connecor.
The noise level I hear is higher with HM901 balanced switched ON than OFF.
Is not it strange? When the "ground" is separated the noise should be lower…
Click to expand...

This strictly an efficiency thing and nothing to do with driver type or mode of operation. There should be 6db more gain and in balanced mode, and with it that much more npise. It does show that balanced operation isn't inherently quieter and that common mode rejection is of little use here. The jh13FPs are not ridiculously efficient nor very low impedance. 116db at 28 ohms.
 
Dec 18, 2013 at 11:59 PM Post #1,685 of 3,445
I do not find the balanced board too powerful for the JH13 Pros. I don't get any hiss and find that the sound is excellent with good layering and transparency. Frankly, I find the balanced card a good match with the JH13's. 
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 7:02 AM Post #1,686 of 3,445
With my UM Miracle (16 Ohm, 114dB), I don't hear any noise from the Balanced amp card w/o music playing.
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 7:44 AM Post #1,687 of 3,445
Jamato8
LarsHP
 
I would very appreciate your doing a simple test for me:
with balanced mode ON increase volume slowly to max and find out the volume level when you first hear a perceptable noise?
 
Or you have a complete silence in the whole volume range?
 
Jamato8, you have the same equipment so we should be close. Because otherwise there may be different versions of balanced amp. cards.
## HM901 (delivered end november)+balanced card(included)+JH13ProFreq(delivered november)+MoonAudio SilverDragon V1 cable TRRS ##
 
Thank you both in advance.
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 8:20 AM Post #1,688 of 3,445
Balanced mode is only relevant if you have TRRS plug, and I don't have that on my CIEM cable, so it doesn't make sense to do the test like that. I will check with Normal mode and my TRS plug UM Miracle.
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 12:45 PM Post #1,690 of 3,445
Checked thoroughly now with Unique Melody Miracle and Balanced amp module connected via TRS / Normal position (single ended).
 
In a completely silent room (in the countryside, no city background noise) and HM-901 paused and at low gain, I detect the following:
 
1) Dead silent up to 4 - 4.3
2) Borderline (just barely audible noise and only discovered when unplugging) 4.7 - 6
3) Audible noise from 6.3 and up
 
Normal listening levels for me with Miracle is around 2 - 3. I should add that at 6.3 I probably would damage my hearing even with just a relatively short listen. It's a 447mW (in high gain) amplifier and max on the volume dial is about 8.3. With a 114dB at 1mW earphone - wow - that's going to be incredibly loud.
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM Post #1,691 of 3,445
larshp said:
  Checked thoroughly now with Unique Melody Miracle and Balanced amp module connected via TRS / Normal position (single ended).
 
In a completely silent room (in the countryside, no city background noise) and HM-901 paused and at low gain, I detect the following:
 
1) Dead silent up to 4 - 4.3
2) Borderline (just barely audible noise and only discovered when unplugging) 4.7 - 6
3) Audible noise from 6.3 and up
 
Normal listening levels for me with Miracle is around 2 - 3. I should add that at 6.3 I probably would damage my hearing even with just a relatively short listen. It's a 447mW (in high gain) amplifier and max on the volume dial is about 8.3. With a 114dB at 1mW earphone - wow - that's going to be incredibly loud.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed info!
 
I would summarize my experience in your way:
 
With no ambient noise, paused, low gain, balanced on, TRRS silver cable, JH13Freq
 
1) Dead silent  - never.
2) Borderline (just barely audible noise and only discovered when unplugging) 0-3
3) Audible noise from 3 to 6
4) very distinct noise from 6 up
 
My normal listening level is 1-2 (I am very sensitive). The produced noise is off course no problem at these levels.
 
It is probable that the difference is caused by silver cable + balanced output as it increases output +6dB. 
 
It would be interesting to get the same comparison also from Jamato8 (balanced in use + JH13Freq).
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM Post #1,692 of 3,445
brasilsamba said:
  Jamato8
LarsHP
 
I would very appreciate your doing a simple test for me:
with balanced mode ON increase volume slowly to max and find out the volume level when you first hear a perceptable noise?
 
Or you have a complete silence in the whole volume range?
 
Jamato8, you have the same equipment so we should be close. Because otherwise there may be different versions of balanced amp. cards.
## HM901 (delivered end november)+balanced card(included)+JH13ProFreq(delivered november)+MoonAudio SilverDragon V1 cable TRRS ##
 
Thank you both in advance.
Click to expand...

When I tested I used low and high gain and increased the volume to max, scary if something should come on, and I got no noise. I use the Whiplash V3 silver wire and TRRS. Excellent cable and great sound all around. 
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 2:31 PM Post #1,693 of 3,445
jamato8 said:
  When I tested I used low and high gain and increased the volume to max, scary if something should come on, and I got no noise. I use the Whiplash V3 silver wire and TRRS. Excellent cable and great sound all around. 
Click to expand...

That is really strange. The Whiplash V3 silver is a superb cable, but I think there cannot be such a difference between Whiplash and MoonAudio (JHaudion reccomends the MoonAudion cable for its iems).
 
So there is a problem in my balanced amp card? Or Hifiman changed the components?
 
How old is your player/card, please?
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 2:52 PM Post #1,694 of 3,445
brasilsamba said:
  That is really strange. The Whiplash V3 silver is a superb cable, but I think there cannot be such a difference between Whiplash and MoonAudio (JHaudion reccomends the MoonAudion cable for its iems).
 
So there is a problem in my balanced amp card? Or Hifiman changed the components?
 
How old is your player/card, please?
Click to expand...

It is from last summer. I don't think they have changed anything about it. On cables, I don't think you can do better than the Whiplash V3 or its relatives. But the hiss should not change due to the cable. 
 
Dec 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM Post #1,695 of 3,445
jamato8 said:
  It is from last summer. I don't think they have changed anything about it. On cables, I don't think you can do better than the Whiplash V3 or its relatives. But the hiss should not change due to the cable. 
Click to expand...

I remember you also wrote you have no clicks/crack/hiss at all in attenuator?
 
I agree it is not the cable difference or cable as such issue.
Frankly, I am very surprised your player is dead silent in the whole volume range and has no attenuator noise.
I think I will have to ask replacement for my unit.
 
Or is it possible that it will decrease over time? I know about the attenuator burn-in, so maybe a "general" burn-in?
 
ADDED
After a while I cant help myself but there is no logic at all. If Hifiman maintains component quality, we have three players with balanced card, one player is noisy let's say 3 (mine), other 1 (LarsHP) and the last 0 (jamato8). 
 
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