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Android phones and USB DACs - Page 181

post #2701 of 5129

Thanks everyone for your valuable suggestions and recommendations. I must admit the whole thing is not as easy, as I initially thought. I was wrong thinking that Galaxy S3 Mini does support USB OTG - looks like it does not... It is so tepmting to think that a Mini is just a scaled-down version of S3, but the bitter reality is different.

 

Maybe some cheaper Xperia models will do the trick for me - will try the Sola. Unfortunately it does not have native USB Audio support, as the higher-end Z-series models, but with USB Audio Recorder Pro this is of a lesser importance.

 

One thing about the Sola bothers me: according to this post by Sony tech support: http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/140910, none of the xperias have USB OTG support per se. Maybe this is just the question of technical terminology, and means nothing in real life, but I would like to confirm with someone who actually has experience with any XPeria models: can I use the standard USB OTG cable (pins 4&5 shortened at the Micro connector) to get the USB DAC connected?

 

UPDATE: The Sola has non-removable battery according to some reviews, is this true, and if so - how big of an issue it is in your view?


Edited by SV_huMMer - 7/24/13 at 11:53pm
post #2702 of 5129

To work with a USB peripheral like USB DAC, a device doesn’t need to support USB OTG: a PC doesn’t support USB OTG, it supports USB host, so it can work with USB DAC.

 

 

USB OTG allows a legacy peripheral like an Android device to be a dual-role USB device, sometimes a USB host, sometimes a USB peripheral:

. an Android device operating as a USB peripheral can interwork with a PC operating as a USB host

. an Android device operating as a USB host can interwork with a USB DAC always operating as a USB peripheral.

 

A USB OTG software program and USB OTG hardware components are added at the USB level.

A USB OTG device is configured to USB host mode or USB peripheral mode by USB OTG software/hardware measuring the value of the ID resistance of the USB interface.

 

When the Micro-B plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.

 

 

 

 

When the Micro-B plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is greater than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB peripheral mode.

 

 

 

When the (functional) Micro-A plug is inserted into the Micro-AB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is less than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB host mode.

 

 

1000

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

One thing about the Sola bothers me: according to this post by Sony tech support: http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/140910, none of the xperias have USB OTG support per se. Maybe this is just the question of technical terminology, and means nothing in real life, but I would like to confirm with someone who actually has experience with any XPeria models: can I use the standard USB OTG cable (pins 4&5 shortened at the Micro connector) to get the USB DAC connected?

 

 

 

 

Xperia Z > USB audio out >> USB OTG adapter cable + USB cable >> Sony PHA-1 USB DAC/amp >> headphones

 

http://call-t.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2013-02-14

Google translation:

"★ little erudition,,, What is the USB host? 

The USB device, there are a host, are two types of device. 
Typically, PC is the host, and mouse, keyboard, printer and smartphone devices. The host + device, USB connection is established. 
This time, PHA-1 in the device of course,,, smartphone and device. It does not hold as a USB connection in this. So, There is no sound. 
Then, turn on the host cable. 
By inserting this, not command "O~i, Xperia Z-kun. Now, are you!'re Going to host" to the smartphone. 
In fact, by difference is 4 pin USB normal, if there 5-pin,,, to short the pin 5 and pin 4, and that becomes the host cable, micro USB (Mini USB, a simple mechanism unexpectedly ) If you explain one also, in,,, driver to control the device and,,,'m possible by the Android version of the traditional, such USB audio driver = PHA-1 like is not on, it's free to host, sound not come out. It is, I was loaded from OS4.1! It willl."
post #2703 of 5129

Those pesky RFI interferencemad.gif.....so far I've found changing my network setting to "WCDMA Only" mode for network setting works best as in I get the least noise when I'm out and about.....maybe you guys should try it and report back. I hope that helps.

post #2704 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by rckyosho View Post

Those pesky RFI interferencemad.gif.....so far I've found changing my network setting to "WCDMA Only" mode for network setting works best as in I get the least noise when I'm out and about.....maybe you guys should try it and report back. I hope that helps.

We have no WCDMA standard in my country at all, so this is not a solution for me. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

To work with a USB peripheral like USB DAC, a device doesn’t need to support USB OTG: a PC doesn’t support USB OTG, it supports USB host, so it can work with USB DAC.

 

DanBa, thanks for a detailed reply!

 

But I am now totally confused, and have even more questions than before.

 

1) USB Host and USB OTG on an android device would require the same type of cable? I.e. 4&5 pins shortened? 

 

2) Isn't it true that in addition to supporting USB Host mode, the android device must support specific USB device types to work with them? E.g. to work with a USB DAC/Sound Card out of the box, the device must support USB Audio class of devices? Because this is exactly what is shown in the picture with Sony Xperia Z and Sony portabe headphone DAC/Amp: the "Z" series support USB audio device class out of the box.

 

3) Does UARP add such support to Android devices which do not natively support USB Audio device class?

 

4) How can one figure out, whether the claimed support of USB Host functionnality is sufficient for UARP/USB DAC combo operation, by reading the device specs? 

post #2705 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

1) USB Host and USB OTG on an android device would require the same type of cable? I.e. 4&5 pins shortened? 

 

USB OTG components of an Android device are used to switch the USB OTG-capable Android device in USB host mode or in USB peripheral mode.
 
 
USB is a master-slave communication bus: USB communication can only take place between a master device and a slave device.
A master, or USB host, is a computer.
A slave, or USB peripheral, can be a mouse, a keyboard, a DAC, a telephone, a smartphone, a tablet …
 
 

 

 
USB was designed to be easy to use: plug-and-play!
 
When a user connects a USB peripheral (for example a USB DAC) to a USB host (for example a PC), the USB host’s operating system (for example Windows or Linux) detects the USB peripheral and loads the appropriate software driver (for example a USB DAC driver or USB audio driver).
 
 

 

 
More and more smart peripherals, like smartphones or tablets, have all the features of a computer.
For example, Android smartphones or tablets are Linux-based computers.
 
 

1000

 

 
Android relies on Linux for core system services such as security, memory management, process management, network stack, and driver model. 
Thus Android handles all the things that Linux is really good at such as a vast array of device drivers, which take the pain out of interfacing to peripheral hardware.
 
As legacy computers, legacy peripherals like Android smartphones or tablets having all the features of a computer need to interconnect with peripherals. This slave-to-slave communication functionality is not supported by the master-to-slave communication USB model.
To address this need, the USB OTG concept is added to the USB standard in 2009. 
USB OTG retains the legacy master-to-slave or USB host-to-USB peripheral communication model.
A USB OTG device is a dual-role USB device, sometimes a USB host, sometimes a USB peripheral:
. a USB OTG-capable Android device operating as a USB peripheral can interwork with a PC operating as a USB host
. a USB OTG-capable Android device operating as a USB host can interwork with a USB DAC always operating as a USB peripheral.
 
When the (functional) Micro-A plug (i.e. pin 4 & pin 5 connected) of a so-called USB OTG cable is inserted into the Micro-USB receptacle of a USB OTG-capable Android device, the ID resistance is less than 10Ω, and the Android device is configured to USB host mode by USB OTG components.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

2) Isn't it true that in addition to supporting USB Host mode, the android device must support specific USB device types to work with them? 

 

Yes, in addition to support USB host feature, the Android device, like the PC, must support specific USB device drivers to work with them.
 
 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

 E.g. to work with a USB DAC/Sound Card out of the box, the device must support USB Audio class of devices? Because this is exactly what is shown in the picture with Sony Xperia Z and Sony portabe headphone DAC/Amp: the "Z" series support USB audio device class out of the box.

 
 
Yes, to work with a USB DAC/Sound Card out of the box, the device must support USB Audio class of devices.
 
"Well, the USB Audio issue feels like it could've belonged at LG, or Asus or whoever the maker of each specific device happens to be.
It's the OEMs and platform vendors that actually implement the USB Audio support (I happened to be involved in this when I was at Sony Mobile).
Google (as of Android 4.1) essentially just provides some of the higher-level mechanisms for detection of USB Audio accessories, while the OEM / platform vendor fills in the blanks. Those blanks can either be very small if you only want audio output at a fixed sample rate, or they can grow quite big if you want more features like recording, voice calls, etc.
 
You could argue that Google should provide a complete basic solution for USB Audio, but that's not the setup today."
 
 
A request to Google for supporting USB audio is ongoing:
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

3) Does UARP add such support to Android devices which do not natively support USB Audio device class?

 

 Yes, if these Android devices support full USB host and support the Android USB host API.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

4) How can one figure out, whether the claimed support of USB Host functionnality is sufficient for UARP/USB DAC combo operation, by reading the device specs? 

 

 

These Android devices should support the Android USB host API (i.e. Android 3.1 or higher) and should support full USB host.
 
Hopefully, there will be no more incomplete USB host implementation like the USB host feature of the Galaxy S2.

Edited by DanBa - 7/25/13 at 1:09pm
post #2706 of 5129

DanBa, thanks a lot! Tons of useful reading. But it did not save me from the first mistake already :-)

 

Today I bought Sony Xperia Go: I thought this is what I needed. Nice size, Android 4.1, USB Host support... only to find out I cannot install UARP JUST because it does not comply with minimum screen resolution requirements :-((((((

 

Pls everyone be aware, that UARP needs AT LEAST 800x480! 

 

Will try to return it to the seller and exchange for a Sola.

post #2707 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SV_huMMer View Post

Pls everyone be aware, that UARP needs AT LEAST 800x480! 

 

I didn't know that!

 

"Requirements:

• 800x480 screen minimum (in landscape)
• Android 3.1 or higher (no root required!!!)
• Android device with USB host capability
• USB OTG cable"
post #2708 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

 

I didn't know that!

 

"Requirements:

• 800x480 screen minimum (in landscape)
• Android 3.1 or higher (no root required!!!)
• Android device with USB host capability
• USB OTG cable"

Yeah... We all need to learn how to read those boring system requirements... :-)

post #2709 of 5129

Hi Danba. Have there been any differences in compatibility between the Exynos and Snapdragon versions of the SIII? I saw that the ALO Pan Am was listed as compatible with the SIII in USB debugging mode. Thinking that the SIII was more or less interchangeable with the Note II, I tried the Pan Am with my Note II but have had no luck, regardless of whether USB debugging is enabled or not. I'm assuming the people who have the Pan Am working with the SIII are using the Snapdragon variant, hence the difference.

 

As an aside, I can confirm the iBasso D42 works with the Note II.

post #2710 of 5129

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTKZ View Post

Have there been any differences in compatibility between the Exynos and Snapdragon versions of the SIII? 

 

Yes, there is some USB difference between a Snapdragon-based Galaxy S3 and an Exynos-based Galaxy S3: the HeadAmp Pico USB DAC was only able to work with a Snapdragon-based Galaxy S3 before the fix by HeadAmp.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs/1305#post_9037872

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTKZ View Post

I saw that the ALO Pan Am was listed as compatible with the SIII in USB debugging mode. Thinking that the SIII was more or less interchangeable with the Note II, I tried the Pan Am with my Note II but have had no luck, regardless of whether USB debugging is enabled or not. I'm assuming the people who have the Pan Am working with the SIII are using the Snapdragon variant, hence the difference.

 

It’s the case so far.

By the way, can the ALO Pan Am work with the Galaxy Note2 using USB Audio Recorder PRO?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTKZ View Post

As an aside, I can confirm the iBasso D42 works with the Note II.

 

Thanks!

post #2711 of 5129

I've got the new Google Nexus 7 (2013 / 2nd Gen) working with my iBasso D-Zero using USB Audio Recorder Pro. So far other apps aren't working.

 

post #2712 of 5129
DP
Edited by jared basshead - 7/28/13 at 4:24am
post #2713 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jared basshead View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jared basshead View Post

anyone tried usb audio through xperia SP??

Also, if anyone knows, does it need micro-A or micro-B otg?

 

By Danba's gracious posts and threads i have figured out that it must be micro-B while am sure that Xperia S has micro-A or micro-AB port which in case of xperia SP is different.

 

Anywho, i have ordered otg cable from ebay, though the pin looks like micro-B but am not sure though. As soon as i get it, i 'll post here.

 

kudos to danba for everything he did for this commmunity. (The amount of work and deliberation i could only think, from head-fi to sony websites to xda all i could find is his awesome posts everywhere, almost every website that i went through for usb audio)

 

Thank you very much Daniel

 

Regards


Alas I got the cable. So, Xperia SP stock rom 4.1.2+ stock player (no USBARP) +E7 works;-)

Thanks again danba

Regards
Jared

Sent from my C5302 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
post #2714 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jared basshead View Post




Alas I got the cable. So, Xperia SP stock rom 4.1.2+ stock player (no USBARP) +E7 works;-)

Thanks again danba

Regards
Jared

Sent from my C5302 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


Jared, could you please provide a link to the cable you purchased? I have Xperia TL, bought an alleged host USB, OTG cable. Could not get it to work with my Audio GD NFB12 in either debugging mode or with USB audio recorder Pro. Figured it is a bogus cable, hopefully not a problem with the Xperia and NFB12 combo. Thanks, satwilson

post #2715 of 5129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBa View Post

...

The Google issue 24614 "Add support for USB Audio" has been switched from "Reviewed" to "Assigned".

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars

...

But still "Priority-Medium" and no owner.

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