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New Audeze LCD3
Nov 26, 2011 at 12:48 PM Post #1,891 of 11,521
Great suggestion, just downloaded this album, will be great for evaluating new gear.  And you're right, it shows that my LCD-2 have enough soundstage for me.  
 
Quote:
macedonianhero said:
If you want to hear sound staging on a recording (that isn't just percussion), I'd recommend the binaural recording of Up Close by Ottmar Liebert...simply outstanding. Even my "on-stage" Grado HF-2s can sound incredibly vast. Just goes to show how much of the sound staging is on the recording.
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Nov 26, 2011 at 1:13 PM Post #1,892 of 11,521


Quote:
wnbc said:
Great suggestion, just downloaded this album, will be great for evaluating new gear.  And you're right, it shows that my LCD-2 have enough soundstage for me.  
 


 
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Just goes to show how much sound staging is recording dependent.
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Nov 26, 2011 at 1:45 PM Post #1,893 of 11,521
macedonianhero said:
That was not the album I was referring to. Louis Armstrong put out more than just Louis and Ella. :p

I've got some of his really early recordings...all mono and all crappy quality, but still great music!

 
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True. Both Louis Armstrong and Miles Davis recorded over such long periods of time the recording quality widely varies. From so crappy that it sounds like the music is coming through your pillow to very high quality albums that make you feel like you're in a small jazz club with them.
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 3:31 PM Post #1,894 of 11,521
Another one who agrees with the Jazz at the Pawn shop album. There is a reason it has been a HiFi test disk for so many years though unlike a great many that fall into that category it is really great to listen to in terms of musical involvement as well!

You know, one thing about whichever version of the Audeze's we own that is a constant in all the threads.. They make us want to listen to music more, especially well thought out, well recorded music, it's why they are top of the tree for me!
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 4:10 PM Post #1,895 of 11,521

Quote:
macedonianhero said:
If you want to hear sound staging on a recording (that isn't just percussion), I'd recommend the binaural recording of Up Close by Ottmar Liebert...simply outstanding. Even my "on-stage" Grado HF-2s can sound incredibly vast. Just goes to show how much of the sound staging is on the recording.
Click to expand...



 
Quote:
wnbc said:
Great suggestion, just downloaded this album, will be great for evaluating new gear.  And you're right, it shows that my LCD-2 have enough soundstage for me.  
Click to expand...



 
Yes thanks Peter, I didn't know about this recording, added to cart 
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It's been a long time since I've added any Ottmar Liebert to my collection!
 
Quote:
macedonianhero said:
Just goes to show how much sound staging is recording dependent. 
smile.gif
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I did a direct comparison of the soundstage of the HD800 and the LCD-2 r.1, and to my surprise while the HD800's highly-vaunted soundstage was deeper (front to back), the LCD-2 actually reproduced a wider (side to side) soundstage. I did this comparison because someone else had brought it up and I didn't believe them.
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 4:13 PM Post #1,896 of 11,521
Bonjour!
 
I'm french sorry I don't speak english. I have a question. A world-class headphone like the LC3 works fine for electro-music ? (Hiphop or daft punk style) . Or who is the best world-class headphone for this (LCD-2 too ?) ? I like impact sound like "loudspeaker" I like sound bass but with good detail.
 
Thanks!
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 4:25 PM Post #1,897 of 11,521
I think we need a "creamy" thread too.
 
Quote:
googleli said:
Ok great LCD thread as usual. Ten pages of tissue paper discussions, and now whether oxygenated copper sounds more creamy.
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Nov 26, 2011 at 4:52 PM Post #1,898 of 11,521


Quote:
macedonianhero said:
 


 
See, Jazz at the Pawnshop was only one of the recordings I used. I too also used some pretty old and crappy Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett and Louis Armstrong albums that have been with me for about 20 years. They were the recordings that helped me come to the conclusion that the LCD-2s were better at poor recordings as the LCD-3s revealed quite a bit more. Skylab (another Head-fier who's ears I trust) came to the exact conclusion as well in his review (though with different sub par recordings). 
 
The LCD-3s were better at extractting details with both world class and really bad recordings over the LCD-2 r2s. The argument that a headphone can do this better with a good recording over headphone "B" and then the opposite is true with poor recordings just doesn't make sense to me.
 
This is a simple fact to me after owning and listening to them exclusively since Day 1. You may prefer the more über realistic presentation of other headphones, but as I mentioned , when real life is your standard, the LCD-3s are among the very best at doing this to my (and many other's) ears.
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Then I guess we must simply agree to disagree my friend....
 
Why is it that you made no mention of the other recordings used? Which versions/masterings did you use? It helps to be clear about these things. Anyway....it is such a shame we disagree as I feel real life is my standard as well and I always want my masterings to sound as close to life as possible. However, I am talking about my masterings. A lot of retail material is not mastered to sound natural and that is where a lot of audiophiles foul up and find equipment to compensate for poor mastering. In my opinion and personal preference, you don't want your equipment to compensate for anything nor sound like anything. I don't want über realistic...I don't want hyper realistic...I don't want anything.
 
Now...speaking logically, and maybe someone with some math skills can help. I have heard 2 LCD-3's with the same problems. What are the odds that I heard 2 pairs with problems and the next 98 don't have it? Anyone?
 
 
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 5:01 PM Post #1,899 of 11,521


Quote:
lff said:
Then I guess we must simply agree to disagree my friend....
 
Why is it that you made no mention of the other recordings used? Which versions/masterings did you use? It helps to be clear about these things. Anyway....it is such a shame we disagree as I feel real life is my standard as well and I always want my masterings to sound as close to life as possible. However, I am talking about my masterings. A lot of retail material is not mastered to sound natural and that is where a lot of audiophiles foul up and find equipment to compensate for poor mastering. In my opinion and personal preference, you don't want your equipment to compensate for anything nor sound like anything. I don't want über realistic...I don't want hyper realistic...I don't want anything.
 
Now...speaking logically, and maybe someone with some math skills can help. I have heard 2 LCD-3's with the same problems. What are the odds that I heard 2 pairs with problems and the next 98 don't have it? Anyone?
 
 
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Simply because the recordings I used over the past week and a half were too many to list as I've been listening to them exclusively over that time period (they are that good).
L3000.gif
I listed my standard test tracks only. But have cycled in much of my collection in the past week or so (many great and some suspect in terms of quality). 
 
Funny that Jude, Skylab, Currawang and I all hear it one way, and you happen to hear something entirely different. Could be the differences in the human ear/perception or upstream gear (amp/source/dac/cables/etc..). Looks like we're still looking for the one size fits all headphone.
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Nov 26, 2011 at 5:14 PM Post #1,900 of 11,521
The odds are 99%.  It was calculated using new math and distance of the earth from the moon 
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Or simply as you and MacedonianHero mentioned, we all have different criteria for good and bad, which change over time as well with new experiences/knowledge gained.  Maybe not for you guys with a long history in this realm but for me it's changed in the past year.  Then throw in different equipment, biases, and expectations and the end result is..............politics, religion, audiophilia
 
 
Quote:
lff said:
Now...speaking logically, and maybe someone with some math skills can help. I have heard 2 LCD-3's with the same problems. What are the odds that I heard 2 pairs with problems and the next 98 don't have it? Anyone?
Click to expand...


 
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM Post #1,901 of 11,521


Quote:
macedonianhero said:
Simply because the recordings I used over the past week and a half were too many to list as I've been listening to them exclusively over that time period (they are that good).
L3000.gif
I listed my standard test tracks only. But have cycled in much of my collection in the past week or so (many great and some suspect in terms of quality). 
 
Funny that Jude, Skylab, Currawang and I all hear it one way, and you happen to hear something entirely different. Could be the differences in the human ear/perception or upstream gear (amp/source/dac/cables/etc..). Looks like we're still looking for the one size fits all headphone.
smile.gif

 
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I see....
 
As for you, Jude, Skylab and Currawang...well...I guess it simply comes down to different strokes for different folks. I doubt it's the gear. I have heard them from multiple high end rigs...all with disappointing results.
 
I really am not looking for the one size fits all headphone but if a headphone claims to be TOTL, then it better perform a certain way for me. To me, the simple matter of the case is that the LCD-x do not perform at a level which I consider to be TOTL. Once again...different strokes and all that. I really do like the looks of the LCD-2 and the comfort of the pads on the LCD-3 though.
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 5:41 PM Post #1,903 of 11,521

For two to have problems and the next 98 not indicates a problem rate (PR) of 2% or 0.02
 
For you to hear some number n of these problem units consecutively you multiply PR by itself n times., i.e. PR^n
 
In this case, the chance is (.02)^2 = .0004 or .04%.
 
Whilst this seems low or 'unlikely', no such statement can be safely made. Two is such a small 'sample' that sample error is high. Small samples don't estimate the population well.
 
(Which is why in life many things happen that don't reflect "the norm" - and is why scientists who use statistics worry about having enough sample size to be reasonably confident their result can be trusted).
 
It's entirely possible you could have been "unlucky" in this way.
 
Quote:
lff said:
 
Now...speaking logically, and maybe someone with some math skills can help. I have heard 2 LCD-3's with the same problems. What are the odds that I heard 2 pairs with problems and the next 98 don't have it? Anyone?
 
 
Click to expand...



 
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM Post #1,904 of 11,521


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I feel real life is my standard as well and I always want my masterings to sound as close to life as possible.
 
. . . 
 
In my opinion and personal preference, you don't want your equipment to compensate for anything nor sound like anything.
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Agreed.  However, while most will claim this is what they want, in reality many prefer some type of coloration.  Consider how many claim that the K701 is neutral.  Or that the D7000 is neutral.
 
Then there is the mess which results when the average person gets hold of EQ or a limiter.
 
 
Nov 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM Post #1,905 of 11,521
 
Quote:
macedonianhero said:
Funny that Jude, Skylab, Currawang and I all hear it one way, and you happen to hear something entirely different. Could be the differences in the human ear/perception or upstream gear (amp/source/dac/cables/etc..). Looks like we're still looking for the one size fits all headphone.
smile.gif
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LOL. I think you should let Jude, Currawong, and Skylab speak for themselves. While I don't feel as strongly as LFF does on some of his stated deficiencies of the LCD3, I am absolutely not threatened by his opinions, feel no need to invoke the names of the of Head-Fi deities (which is a really weak rhetorical technique), and more importantly don't totally disagree and understand where he is coming from. The Audeze headphones are definitely not one size fits all headphone, much like Grado.
 
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