Every transducer has limitations.  Since Electrostatic would usually be championed as the highest in audiophile standards, what are some of it's limitations which maybe other types of transducers don't have.  Maybe I'm not just speaking of "limitations" but are there things which dynamic and orthodynamic drivers inherently do better?

i couldnt tell you from a technical standpoint, however I have always felt that dynamics have more raw impact

 
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davidmahler said:

but are there things which dynamic and orthodynamic drivers inherently do better?

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no.

For me, electrostatic are inherently more fragile than dynamics. I've had two O2s that developed temporary channel imbalance due to the humidity (I believe). This is why I got rid of my stax rig. 

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nikongod said:

 

no.

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short and sweet, the way I like.......and I'm sure for you it's very true, but I know that it can't be universally true because I've spoken to many who just don't like the sound of Electrostats.  I'm just wondering why.  I mean a simple guess would be most people don't have enough money to buy a high quality electrostat rig so either they just haven't heard it amped properly OR they have heard it amped properly but they've convinced themselves that it wasn't good because they could never afford it and therefore they can stay sane instead of forever wishing.  But these guesses would be 100% wrong cause quite a few of the people who I've spoken to who did not care much for electrostatic headphones were people that had more than enough money and addiction to the hobby to be able to afford them and amp them well.  And one of them was even someone who owned a pair of Omegas and a good amp to go with (though I don't remember the amp)....when I asked him what he didn't like about the Omega's he said, "I like them but there are better headphones, I'm not the biggest fan of Electrostatic Sound."  But he never clarified what he meant by that.

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xxii said:

For me, electrostatic are inherently more fragile than dynamics. I've had two O2s that developed temporary channel imbalance due to the humidity (I believe). This is why I got rid of my stax rig. 

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I have had no experience comparable to what you had even though I have used stats in 4 different countries of varying climate.  Possibly I have not had the extremes of humidity.
 
I certainly don't find my stats fragile.  I have had some phones over 25 years with no problem.  Any problems I have had  have been due to physical breakages brought on by handling mistakes, eg standing on the cord while putting the phones on.   These phones are generally as duarble or  more durable than other electronic components.
 
Older stats, inclduing speakers, had a tendency to arc between diaphragms and stators, but few modern phones develope this problem. A simple plastic washer on the stator generally prevents arcing.  Also I suspect arcing was more of an issue on stats that used with transformer's becuase these could be driven to higher voltages by their associated power amps than most dedicated headphone amps which are generally used now.
 
As far as what stats can't do, I can't think of anything.  Some olders stats such as the early model stats were bass shy by contemporary standards but them so were most dynamics of that era. I recall the old Sennheisser "open-aire" designs being pretty thin sounding.  Other early stats such as the Koss line of sealed phones (ESP6/ESP9)  had impressive bass.  Modern open stats phones have brought bass up by increasing diaphargm size and increasing the charging voltages.
 
Really the question should be what dynamics can't do?  They will always have poorer transient response and have excessive levels of intermodualtion distortion.  You just can't make small heavy audio drivers work as well as ultralight large stat drivers. 
 
However stats are very amp dependent and while it is true that generally all phones will sound better with good amps, some stats such as the 007's  only sound good with bigger and more expensive amps.
 
 
 

First off, there is no "electrostatic sound".  There are certain characteristics which some models share but this isn't universal. 
 
As for weaknesses, some models don't handle dust too well and you can't use ESP's with wet hair.  That's about it. 

I have Stax Omega II with the tube interface/amp.  I have not heard the phones with other amps (I ordered, and I am waiting for the Blue Hawaii Special Edition amp).   My comments are not about electrostatics in general, but about this specific model.  Like any transducer, it has a characteristic sound (coloration).  In other words, regardless of the music and source, there is a "sound" that is pervasive.  To me, it is an upper midrange prominence that I would characterize as the sound of plastic.  To some extent, I hear that with panel speakers, but, with speakers it is usually lower in frequency.  Every time I start a listening session with the phones, I notice the coloration, but, in a very short time I get acclimated and it is not that big of an issue (I also use horn-based speakers which have their own coloration issues). 
 
The Stax phones seem to not have as much dynamic punch as other phones, but, that may be just an impression that comes from their lack of overhang and bass resonance.   Speakers and phones that resonate (as well as rooms that reverberate) can give the impression of more bass punch.
 
The Stax phones are extremely revealing about characteristics of upstream components, because of their extreme clarity, and this, I suppose, can be a negative in some situations.  I didn't like the dry and slightly brittle sound I got with a Levinson No. 32 preamp, and while I get much better results with my Emotive Audio Epifania, I would prefer a sound that is a bit warmer (more upper bass, lower midrage), but then, the sound with my speakers wouldn't be optimized.  This is, a very demanding component.
 
I've had my phones for some time, and so far, I've experienced one operational problem.  The volume potentiometer for one channel has gone bad at the high volume end of its range so I cannot play the phones that loud.  Even with 13 db of gain from my linestage, I cannot get sufficient volume when playing vinyl.  I could bypass the volume control, but, I keep thinking my Blue Hawaii amp will be shipped any day soon.

Quote:

larry i said:

  Every time I start a listening session with the phones, I notice the coloration, but, in a very short time I get acclimated and it is not that big of an issue (I also use horn-based speakers which have their own coloration issues). 
 
 
 
Almost sounds like a warm-up issue.  Certainly the 007A has a mid-upper peak but all I do is run them loud for a minute or 2 on my 717 amp before putting them on and the sound seems much more punchy and balanced.

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You will know soon enough why we don't have a lot of respect for the SRM-007t...   It's a good amp design but way too underpowered for the SR-007. 

The limitations, as I understand it, are mainly in the amplification, which has radically different requirements to a dynamic amplifier.  As a more niche product, electrostats don't have much in the way of variety when it comes to amps, and the high-end models either require serious DIY skills (something Spritzer and Kevin Gilmore are working on rectifying) or very serious money.  As a result, most people have only used and measured 'stats with mid-range amps (relatively) at best.

Ed,
 
No, it is not just a warmup issue.  Yes, I forgot to list, as one of the negatives, that the phones do take some time to warm up.  But, even if I leave them playing for some time before I start my listening, I hear that coloration.  I am aware of it all the time, but I acclimate to that sound.  It is the same when I visit friends and hear their speaker systems.  All have characteristic colorations, and I usually can tune them out.  The somewhat "dry" (leanness) sound that leaves me feeling a bit cold listening to the Stax is actually a bigger issue.  That I find a bit harder to tune out, though I've heard my phones sound completely free of that problem (through a ridiculously expensive Kondo M-10 linestage), so I suppose it is not really a characteristic of the phones, but, their extremely demanding nature (they reveal everything upstream).
 
I am being hypercritical, because that is what the original poster asked, but, I am still quite pleased with the Stax.
 
 
Spritzer,
 
You state that the 007-t is underpowered.  That, I cannot disagree with.  But, HeadAmp specifies 54 db of gain for the BHSE, which is the same gain specified for the 007-t.  Can you elaborate on how the BHSE delivers more power?

I am not an engineer, but I will try to guess.
 
Volume (gain) has nothing to do with power.
 
Just think the audio chain as various rails with different voltages or a stair with increasing steps. The higher the gap between this voltages rails, higher the gain. You start with very low voltages at your needle (low power too...) and you increase that at every stage (phono preamp, preamp, power amp).
 
Volume is just higher voltage on average.
 
Okay, but higher voltages means your stage is going to receive enough power?  
 
No, it does not mean that you can sustain high power at such voltages. You could design a stage with a lot of voltage, but with very low power. 
 
To sustain enough current at the desired voltage means power. That depends how much current your stage can swing at the desired voltages. In fact, this is also related to time, i. e., how much current it can swing during a short period of time (slew rate). 
 
With more power (and faster slew rates) frequencies go lower and higher. But why? Then you have to understand Fourier series, something I do not... Just imagine that low frequencies need more voltage swing and less current, but the voltages need to be so higher that power is higher. Then think that higher frequencies swing so fast that you need higher currents, but with lower voltages (again the current swings are so fast that the whole power dissipated in sound is higher).
 
Electrostatic transducers need higher voltages and little current to achieve normal volume levels. Does little current mean less power than dynamic rigs? Not at all. Power is a compound variable.
 
Engineers, Am I right?
 
p.s.: I am not from North America so my English is very poor... 

Okay, now I am going from guessing to speculating.
 
There might be other effect. 
 
With more power frequencies are better reproduced in time domain since the higher slew rates avoid some deviations.
 
With the increased accuracy, reverberations are better portrayed. This means the sound stage gets clearer, less fuzzy.
 
People use to say this have the impact of increasing the soundstage. I would not say that. In fact, the sound stage is defined during the recording. Low power amplifiers with difficulties to reproduce frequencies (and reverberation) precisely can deteriorate the sound stage. Higher power does not improve the sound stage. It only gives you the original one.
 
But that’s something you need to find on your own, with your own ears...
[size=xx-small]Okay, now I am going from guessing to speculating.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]There might be other effect. [/size]
 
[size=xx-small]With more power frequencies are better reproduced in time domain since the higher slew rates avoid some deviations.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]With the increased accuracy reverberations are better portrayed. This means the sound stage gets clearer, less fuzzy.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]People use to say this have the impact of increasing the soundstage. I would not say that. In fact, the sound stage is defined during the recording. Low power amplifiers with difficulties to reproduce frequencies (and reverberation) precisely can deteriorate the sound stage. Higher power does not improve the sound stage. It only gives you the original one.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]But that’s something you need to find on your own, with your own ears...Okay, now I am going from guessing to speculating.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]There might be other effect. [/size]
 
[size=xx-small]With more power frequencies are better reproduced in time domain since the higher slew rates avoid some deviations.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]With the increased accuracy reverberations are better portrayed. This means the sound stage gets clearer, less fuzzy.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]People use to say this have the impact of increasing the soundstage. I would not say that. In fact, the sound stage is defined during the recording. Low power amplifiers with difficulties to reproduce frequencies (and reverberation) precisely can deteriorate the sound stage. Higher power does not improve the sound stage. It only gives you the original one.[/size]
 
[size=xx-small]But that’s something you need to find on your own, with your own ears...[/size]

I'm not an engineer either but volume is indeed just voltage, same goes for gain.  Voltage is the easy part to do, even the tiny Stax amps can drive the SR-007 to deafening levels while only being rated at 4W.  The hard part is power (as in current) and being able to supply enough current into any load presented by the transducers.  Those familiar with electrostatic speakers know their impedance varies wildly, the Quad ESL57 goes from 28ohm down to 2ohm depending on frequency.  Now this is after the step up transformer so multiply by a rather large number to show the true impedance swing they present.  
 
According to Ohm's law, if voltage is to stay fixed as impedance varies then the current has to increase and decrease accordingly.  The voltage is the volume level so if the amp can't supply enough current into a given load (say the bass) then the voltage drops and the amps control over the diaphragm is diminished.  That's why we have those huge heatsinks for these amps, to supply all the current the phones would ever need while running the amp with high Class A bias.