Joker, how does the Audio-Technica CK90 stack up against things like the Hifiman RE0/RE-ZERO and Sunrise Xcape V1 in terms of neutrality and overall balance? Your review makes it sound really great and perfect for what I want (very fast, but slightly dark). I really like the CK10's aggressiveness, edge, and detail, but they are just a tiny bit too treble-forward for me, especially with the super-comfortable gel Supertips I use (which seem to boost the treble a little bit). I prefer the balance of the RE-0/RE-ZERO (which IMO sound pretty much the same, except the ZERO has slightly more forward mids, like the Sunrise), but the RE0/ZERO/Xcape don't have enough treble detail or crisp for me (which I attribute to their being dynamics instead of BAs).
 
Also, do you plan on doing more moving armature sets at some point in the future? Specifically, the Ortofon e-Q5 and the Grado GR8/10. I like your description of the e-Q7 but's above my price range. Thanks!

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ikarios said:

Joker, how does the Audio-Technica CK90 stack up against things like the Hifiman RE0/RE-ZERO and Sunrise Xcape V1 in terms of neutrality and overall balance? Your review makes it sound really great and perfect for what I want (very fast, but slightly dark). I really like the CK10's aggressiveness, edge, and detail, but they are just a tiny bit too treble-forward for me, especially with the super-comfortable gel Supertips I use (which seem to boost the treble a little bit). I prefer the balance of the RE-0/RE-ZERO (which IMO sound pretty much the same, except the ZERO has slightly more forward mids, like the Sunrise), but the RE0/ZERO/Xcape don't have enough treble detail or crisp for me (which I attribute to their being dynamics instead of BAs).
 
Also, do you plan on doing more moving armature sets at some point in the future? Specifically, the Ortofon e-Q5 and the Grado GR8/10. I like your description of the e-Q7 but's above my price range. Thanks!

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You sound like a candidate for the vsonic GR07.  Haven't heard it but the impressions seem to match your needs.  I believe Joker is listening to them atm so he could offer up something.
 

Don't expect more crispness with the EQ5s and presumably the EQ7s/GR10s. The treble is more prominent and a tad more detailed on the RE-Zeros ime. You could try the DBA02s or the GR07s. 

DBA02s were far too bright, although I liked the character of the sound. The frequency balance was just not for me. The CK10 is a big step in the right direction and almost there, but I want that kind of detail and edge in a darker package. The GR07 looks interesting and sounds like it fits my requirements well. If I see one pop up in the FS forums I'll jump on it, but I don't particularly like buying new items when I haven't heard them :\

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ikarios said:

DBA02s were far too bright, although I liked the character of the sound. The frequency balance was just not for me. The CK10 is a big step in the right direction and almost there, but I want that kind of detail and edge in a darker package. The GR07 looks interesting and sounds like it fits my requirements well. If I see one pop up in the FS forums I'll jump on it, but I don't particularly like buying new items when I haven't heard them :\

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It is interesting that the DBA was brighter than the CK10 for you.  I know we all hear w/ our curves but which tips were you using on the DBA and the CK10? 
 

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anaxilus said:

It is interesting that the DBA was brighter than the CK10 for you.  I know we all hear w/ our curves but which tips were you using on the DBA and the CK10? 
 

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With the DBA-02s I tried Comply T100s, Monster foam Supertips, and the stock tips (which were not great). Not even the Comply did much to the treble, it was overbearingly bright. I know I got a good seal with the Complys because my ear canals generally accept small tips, but the Complys were medium and started to put pressure on my ears after a little while. The CK10s are about 2/3 of the way to the RE-ZERO's frequency balance from the DBA-02 (so, significantly more bass and mids). I've been listening to the CK10s with Monster Supertips (foam and gel), the stock tips, and Hifiman small tips. I like the Hifiman tips the best because they smooth out a few of the treble peaks that bother me a little bit, but the Supertips are most comfortable and seem to provide the most detail.
 
The more I read about the GR07, the more I like it. I really liked the RE262 but it didn't have quite enough treble aggressiveness for me, and the mids were just a tad too forward. The GR07 seems to fix these issues. I'm considering just biting the bullet and buying from Lendmeurears, and taking a small loss if I decide I don't like it and want to sell.

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ikarios said:

With the DBA-02s I tried Comply T100s, Monster foam Supertips, and the stock tips (which were not great). Not even the Comply did much to the treble, it was overbearingly bright. I know I got a good seal with the Complys because my ear canals generally accept small tips, but the Complys were medium and started to put pressure on my ears after a little while. The CK10s are about 2/3 of the way to the RE-ZERO's frequency balance from the DBA-02 (so, significantly more bass and mids). I've been listening to the CK10s with Monster Supertips (foam and gel), the stock tips, and Hifiman small tips. I like the Hifiman tips the best because they smooth out a few of the treble peaks that bother me a little bit, but the Supertips are most comfortable and seem to provide the most detail.
 
The more I read about the GR07, the more I like it. I really liked the RE262 but it didn't have quite enough treble aggressiveness for me, and the mids were just a tad too forward. The GR07 seems to fix these issues. I'm considering just biting the bullet and buying from Lendmeurears, and taking a small loss if I decide I don't like it and want to sell.

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Just curious.  Despite seal, did you get a deep Ety like insertion?  I do think the GR07 looks interesting.  The question is whether having the ES5 and IERM it makes sense for me to go w/ the GR07 over the Xcape v.1 as a backup.  Or perhaps even the FX700 I've always longed for.
 
One reason I have never sold my Sony CD2K was it's bio-cellulose drivers.  If the GR07 stacks up maybe I can part ways with it finally.  Decision, decisions. 
 

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ljokerl said:

 
While there generally is a correlation between price and performance, the PR401 is just one of many examples of in-ears that perform on-par with pricier sets. Yes, the HJE900, C710, and PR401 are all somewhat v-shaped in response, but at the current prices the ECCIs are just better value.
 
 

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Well, the more i read, more i came to conclusion that the PR401 is a sooo nice choice at a good value.
 
I see some complains with the Denon C710 like harsh highs e too much bass, and with the PR401 i see none.
 
But, in your opinion, what's the next upgrade of PR401 then? The JVC FX500 / FX700?
 
 

Going from his review, pretty sure the FX700. The FX500s sound like they will be more like a sidegrade, going fwir. 

@Aflac.. balance, neutrality, great end-to-end, detailed, treble w/o harshness and good crispness, and a (very) slight left-of-center/warmer presentation?  The GR07 is calling your name.  You can read my very affectionate rants for the GR07 on ClieOS' thread.
 
Being a big DBA fan, owner.. I enjoy the 07 JUST as much as the DBA.. in fact, it's all I've been listening to for the past three weeks.  It's faster than the 262, sounds great unamped, and while it's a non-fatiguing, smoother phone.. there's plenty of detail and crispness with good quality source files.
 
The crispness isn't on the BA level.. but I honestly don't think it aims to be or is tuned to try to be.  What's the most impressive part (aside from the non-fatiguing sig) is the GR07's layering.  It's really quite impressive and that particular aspect makes it easier to pick out details.
 
The overall presentation is what seems paramount with these phones, so the sound is VERY cohesive.  I've got over 150 hours and they're very very very balanced to my ears.. perhaps the most balanced phones I've heard (even more than the 003).  Bass texturing is excellent.. and the way the mids are presented are very much to my liking (not forward or recessed.. just perfectly in line with the bass & treble).

Any sibilant issues? Heard some people were getting some sibilance with the R07s..

 
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inks said:

Any sibilant issues? Heard some people were getting some sibilance with the R07s..

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I didn't notice anything myself.  And I HATE sibilance.  In fact, I hate fatiguing treble.
 
esantosh was the one with sibilance issues IIRC, I'll let him answer this, but I think it was dependent on sibilance being present in the recording.  Some IEMs correct this, but the gr07 will reveal it.
 
The lower treble does have a small peak which I do notice.  It doesn't bother me (I actually like it), but YYMV.
 
Also, this is my only "high-end" phone; best I've heard beside those were the Xears TD100-II (for fun; I still respect them a LOT after A-B ing considering their price) and the RE-0 (for treble and mid accuracy, but man, I just can't like them that much, they sound very tinny to me)...

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flysweep said:

@Aflac.. balance, neutrality, great end-to-end, detailed, treble w/o harshness and good crispness, and a (very) slight left-of-center/warmer presentation?  The GR07 is calling your name.  You can read my very affectionate rants for the GR07 on ClieOS' thread.
 
Being a big DBA fan, owner.. I enjoy the 07 JUST as much as the DBA.. in fact, it's all I've been listening to for the past three weeks.  It's faster than the 262, sounds great unamped, and while it's a non-fatiguing, smoother phone.. there's plenty of detail and crispness with good quality source files.
 
The crispness isn't on the BA level.. but I honestly don't think it aims to be or is tuned to try to be.  What's the most impressive part (aside from the non-fatiguing sig) is the GR07's layering.  It's really quite impressive and that particular aspect makes it easier to pick out details.
 
The overall presentation is what seems paramount with these phones, so the sound is VERY cohesive.  I've got over 150 hours and they're very very very balanced to my ears.. perhaps the most balanced phones I've heard (even more than the 003).  Bass texturing is excellent.. and the way the mids are presented are very much to my liking (not forward or recessed.. just perfectly in line with the bass & treble).

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How do you like them compared to your pr401?
 
 

Man, you guys suck. I just cleared out some of my full-size headphones and now I plop more down for IEMs. Maybe getting into a portable rig was a terrible idea after all...
 
Anyway, GR07s purchased. I'll probably keep the CK10s around until I get them, unless the Q-jays or the MTPC sound better than I expect them to. Hopefully everything arrives quickly.

jxk said:

How do you like them compared to your pr401?

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That's tough.. different sound sigs really.. The PR401, I love.  As with the DBA & GR07.. the PR401's overall presentation is where it excels.. I think you can see a particular theme forming with the phones I own, here.. lol.
 
The PR401 has an ever so slight U shaped, balanced sound.. the mid bass hump on them settled perfectly after about 70 hours or so, mids came forward to be more in line with the wonderful, sparkling treble.  I consider the PR401 a true titan in it's price range, so you're not gonna here many, if any complaints about it from me.  Relative to the GR07, the PR401 is more "fun" but it certainly cozies up to the neutral side of things when pitted against it's direct competitors.
 
PR401 has more sparkle than the GR07, but that can be attributed to the slight U-shaped curve.. The GR07 has sparkle, but it doesn't draw attention to itself like the PR401's sparkle does.. which is clearly one of the unique aspects of the ECCI phone.  PR401 has more bass quantity, but I think the quality is better on the vsonic.. not by miles, but it sounds more refined and it's quicker.  The ECCI's bass has more impact, but that is to be expected with its frequency curve.  The vson'c bass is really excellent when it comes to texture, extension and neutrality.  Not to be worried though, there is no RE0 type of non-existence in the GR07's bass.  I listen to a lot of hip hop and it sounds more than adequate for my ears with the GR07.  In fact, I almost prefer it over some of my other cans cause its so well textured and fleshed out from the lower midrange all the way to the sub-bass.
 
PR401 has a wider & deeper soundstage, but the GR07's soundstage is freakishly accurate and surprisingly spacious.  I'd argue I like the GR07's soundstage more, in fact.  Both have great timbre, but the edge goes to the GR07.  Instrument separation goes to the GR07.  Listening to some electronica.. synths, horns, drums, and other instruments sound like they're floating in air.  Layering, which is what I would consider the GR07's ace in the hole is simply incredible.  PR401 is nice too, there.. but not anything I own can touch what the GR07 does when presenting layers in music (DBA comes close).
 
It might sound like I'm heaping all the praise on the GR07 here, which it deserves.. but the PR401 is a phone I certainly listen to often when I want a slight bit more fun but not wanting to go all Eterna on my ears.  It's addictive treble presentation cannot be denied too.
 
I think both the PR401 & GR07 are tremendous values at their pricepoints.. Both a VERY well rounded phones in my opinion and when you evaluate what each phone aim to do soundwise, they both achieve it better than most of their peers (PR401 = balanced U shape, musical GR07 = neutral, musical, accurate, non-fatiguing, detailed).  They both sound excellent unamped and handle a variety of genres with high competence (I'd say the GR07 has the edge here because of it's timbre accuracy, speed, and neutrality).
 
It all depends on what you listen to & what kind of sound you want.. I personally don't think you could go wrong with either.  How much you want to spend should make the decision easier though.
 
It's probably not what you want to hear.. but get both.  I don't see myself really selling either.