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Home-Made IEMs - Page 123

post #1831 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

But they're not for retail sale anywhere?

 

I was planning to make one with the typical CI as lows, ED29689 as Mids and another ED29689 as highs. I only want to use a high frequency cross over and try to use other things to tune the bottom and the mids. Wonder if it'll work. Are the frequency outputs of the two drivers around the same loudness? CI seems to give off 120db of bass on the graphs while ED only gives 100db of mid/high. 


Don't use 29689 for mids use some other ED driver.

If you want use mid driver as full-range - pick driver that has higher impedance >10 Ohm. Overall ED family would be good choice.

Level bass output of CI with small resistor ~20 Ohm if combined with mid-tweeter driver or ~40Ohm+ if combined with full range driver.

post #1832 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

But they're not for retail sale anywhere?

 

I was planning to make one with the typical CI as lows, ED29689 as Mids and another ED29689 as highs. I only want to use a high frequency cross over and try to use other things to tune the bottom and the mids. Wonder if it'll work. Are the frequency outputs of the two drivers around the same loudness? CI seems to give off 120db of bass on the graphs while ED only gives 100db of mid/high. 

 

To be honest, I'm having problems meshing the DTEC and CI together as the CI is really that much louder and muddying up the bass. Unless you have a clear inclination to experiment with low pass filters to tame the CI, I'd advice not using it.

 

Currently I have to use 2nd order lowpass to reduce the effects of the CI, but there are some interactions with the DTEC which reduces it's output too.

post #1833 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 


Don't use 29689 for mids use some other ED driver.

If you want use mid driver as full-range - pick driver that has higher impedance >10 Ohm. Overall ED family would be good choice.

Level bass output of CI with small resistor ~20 Ohm if combined with mid-tweeter driver or ~40Ohm+ if combined with full range driver.

 

Thanks for the advice! Would the FED series be any good? I saw that FED30048 was sometimes used as mid drivers in certain IEM(s), but it is listed under hearing aid drivers. Is the ED29689 driver suitable for highs? I saw that the UERM used two of the same drivers for mid and high, which made me very interested in making an IEM with similar configurations. Are there any good drivers that I can use for both mid and high?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vector1 View Post
 

 

To be honest, I'm having problems meshing the DTEC and CI together as the CI is really that much louder and muddying up the bass. Unless you have a clear inclination to experiment with low pass filters to tame the CI, I'd advice not using it.

 

Currently I have to use 2nd order lowpass to reduce the effects of the CI, but there are some interactions with the DTEC which reduces it's output too.

 

I have a place where I can get all sorts of different tubing, made with different materials and diameters. I have access to PTFE, Silicon, Copper, Stainless steel with diameters as small as 0.3mm. So I was hoping to try a large amount of tubing to see which one performs best.

post #1834 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

 

Thanks for the advice! Would the FED series be any good? I saw that FED30048 was sometimes used as mid drivers in certain IEM(s), but it is listed under hearing aid drivers. Is the ED29689 driver suitable for highs? I saw that the UERM used two of the same drivers for mid and high, which made me very interested in making an IEM with similar configurations. Are there any good drivers that I can use for both mid and high?

 

 

I have a place where I can get all sorts of different tubing, made with different materials and diameters. I have access to PTFE, Silicon, Copper, Stainless steel with diameters as small as 0.3mm. So I was hoping to try a large amount of tubing to see which one performs best.

FED for mids - yes definitely but you'll need ED29689 to take over from around 1kHz.

You could use BK driver as well, it has nice range from 20 to 4000Hz.

 

Consider using ED-23619 with 10 Ohm resistor or ED-23162

If you want extra bass boost use ED-23147

post #1835 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 

FED for mids - yes definitely but you'll need ED29689 to take over from around 1kHz.

You could use BK driver as well, it has nice range from 20 to 4000Hz.

 

Consider using ED-23619 with 10 Ohm resistor or ED-23162

If you want extra bass boost use ED-23147

Thanks so much for the suggestions! But what is wrong for ED29689 as mids? 

 

I actually wonder if there is a driver that you can use as both mid and highs, as in, for example ED29689 as mids, and ED29689 as highs. Since I see the UERM uses a similar configuration which seems to be Sonion drivers. The Knowles driver sizes didn't seem to match the two mid/high drivers on there.

 

Also, what's the difference between CI30050 and CI22955? (Sorry for all the questions :P)

 

Edit: Perhaps I'll have to stick a WBFK as highs...


Edited by Xymordos - 6/20/14 at 6:37am
post #1836 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

Thanks so much for the suggestions! But what is wrong for ED29689 as mids? 

 

I actually wonder if there is a driver that you can use as both mid and highs, as in, for example ED29689 as mids, and ED29689 as highs. Since I see the UERM uses a similar configuration which seems to be Sonion drivers. The Knowles driver sizes didn't seem to match the two mid/high drivers on there.

 

Also, what's the difference between CI30050 and CI22955? (Sorry for all the questions :P)

 

Edit: Perhaps I'll have to stick a WBFK as highs...

It is tweeter. It has slightly "dry" mids, nothing that would sound extraordinary. You could use it as fullrange if you wanted, but it doesn't mean it will rock your socks off. Sonion has slightly different signature even drivers designed for the same target like ED26869 and Sonion 2389 sounds quite different.

 

IN UERM mids are carried by CI drivers.

 

difference between CI30050 and CI22955 - impedance and port location.

 

CI22955 - use as a full range with 3300 ohm damper 16mm-22mm tubing

ED26869 - use 1-2,2uF cap - 13-16mm tubing 680 ohm damper

WBFK - connect it in second order after ED with another 1uF 10-13mm tubing 680 damper

 

You'll get very nice "big" sound.

 

If you're unable to make 3x 2mmID tubing - use single tube for ED and WBFK.

post #1837 of 5827

Thanks for the detailed explanation! 

 

I'll definitely use your suggestions, as well as play around with tubing material and lengths. That combination sounds pretty attractive to use actually. As tweeters, did you find out which driver is more resolving? WBFK or the 29689? I wanted to test out if a long long tube of small diameter (e.g. 0.3mm) would have a significant effect on bass, but I feel like if the tube is too long a lot of bass detail will be lost and all you hear will be a low thud. 

 

Edit: One interesting observation to note. My UERM has a faulty CI driver on one side that sometimes switches off randomly (not due to connection issues unfortunately...), and whenever it does that, you can hear the vocals still very clearly and focused, but the bottom (bass) half of the right side goes missing. The sound stage for the treble and mids still seems fine, but the bass part will collapse.


Edited by Xymordos - 6/20/14 at 7:53am
post #1838 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

Thanks for the detailed explanation! 

 

I'll definitely use your suggestions, as well as play around with tubing material and lengths. That combination sounds pretty attractive to use actually. As tweeters, did you find out which driver is more resolving? WBFK or the 29689? I wanted to test out if a long long tube of small diameter (e.g. 0.3mm) would have a significant effect on bass, but I feel like if the tube is too long a lot of bass detail will be lost and all you hear will be a low thud. 

 

ED will sound more "natural" less aggressive.

WBFK will be more clearer in upper range 10kHz+

ED offers very good range between 1kHz to 16kHz

WBFK is best for 6kHz-20kHz range.

 

As for tubing, such small diameter and long tube will result in low pass filter - but I don't think there would be need for tube longer than 20mm to cut off highs, without cutting off bas-mid. You have to calculate it ...or measure it if you can.

Any longer tube like 30mm will result in phase incoherency between other drivers.

post #1839 of 5827

Ah I see! So WBFK would be used as a super tweeter, while ED can be used for the highs. 

For the phase incoherence of the bass driver, I was thinking of perhaps having a driver for low bass and have it deliberately slightly phase incoherent, but with acoustic low pass filter to make it only output delayed super low bass to make the sound more interesting. Would be interesting to test it!

post #1840 of 5827

^ You don't need to care much about phase alignment of the sub woofer as quarter wavelength of sub 1khz frequencies is about 8cm and above. However beware of the slope at your cutoff frequency, if it's not steep enough the sub woofer's phase might screw up the lower midrange region.

post #1841 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post

 

CI22955 - use as a full range with 3300 ohm damper 16mm-22mm tubing

ED26869 - use 1-2,2uF cap - 13-16mm tubing 680 ohm damper

WBFK - connect it in second order after ED with another 1uF 10-13mm tubing 680 damper

 

 

So according to this my cutoff points would be ~3kHz and ~12kHz? Hope my calculations are correct :P 

 

@tranhieu I see, so I'll have to find a way to sharply drop off the frequencies of CI above 1kHz for a long tubing to work. This must be quite difficult to do since most crossovers seem to drop off not that steep. 

post #1842 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post
 

 

So according to this my cutoff points would be ~3kHz and ~12kHz? Hope my calculations are correct :P 

 

@tranhieu I see, so I'll have to find a way to sharply drop off the frequencies of CI above 1kHz for a long tubing to work. This must be quite difficult to do since most crossovers seem to drop off not that steep. 

Pretty much.

 

Use dampers to attenuate frequencies above 1kHz.

post #1843 of 5827

I managed to lift off the solder pads and break the wires on both my WBFKs that I ordered, so I have another 4 more on the way in case I destroy more. Be careful with the heat applied to the driver when soldering! The larger drivers can tolerate more, but the tiny WBFKs aren't too good.

 

I have also found that a 2nd order lowpass filter does reduce the CI to a low "thud", but as I'm leaning on the DTEC for the mids, my initial plan of getting the subbass from CI alone seems to be working out. Next step is to insert the red acoustic filters and see if I can get away with a first order.

 

I'll have to test the whole system once I get the WBFKs next week, but before it broke, the WBFK just gave that little sparkle to the highs without affecting the mids too much. The slightly lower sensitivity is somewhat of a bonus since it doesn't make the sound signature too bright, but I'll test further with different capacitor values.

post #1844 of 5827

Your design, Vector, is missing ~2,5kHz peak needed to make sound "clear" or "naturally bright".

post #1845 of 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 

Your design, Vector, is missing ~2,5kHz peak needed to make sound "clear" or "naturally bright".

 

Unless I'm reading the FR graphs wrongly, I thought the DTECs handle that range particularly well? At least, a WBFK + DTEC should provide sufficient upper mid range response, coupled with my acoustic tuning by increasing inner diameter of passages to ~1.4mm. I can increase this further to boost the 1-2kHz response if I feel that the mids are too recessed.

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