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Home-Made IEMs
Jun 19, 2014 at 3:57 PM Post #1,831 of 16,031
xymordos said:
  But they're not for retail sale anywhere?
 
I was planning to make one with the typical CI as lows, ED29689 as Mids and another ED29689 as highs. I only want to use a high frequency cross over and try to use other things to tune the bottom and the mids. Wonder if it'll work. Are the frequency outputs of the two drivers around the same loudness? CI seems to give off 120db of bass on the graphs while ED only gives 100db of mid/high. 
Click to expand...


Don't use 29689 for mids use some other ED driver.
If you want use mid driver as full-range - pick driver that has higher impedance >10 Ohm. Overall ED family would be good choice.
Level bass output of CI with small resistor ~20 Ohm if combined with mid-tweeter driver or ~40Ohm+ if combined with full range driver.
 
Jun 19, 2014 at 8:57 PM Post #1,832 of 16,031
xymordos said:
  But they're not for retail sale anywhere?
 
I was planning to make one with the typical CI as lows, ED29689 as Mids and another ED29689 as highs. I only want to use a high frequency cross over and try to use other things to tune the bottom and the mids. Wonder if it'll work. Are the frequency outputs of the two drivers around the same loudness? CI seems to give off 120db of bass on the graphs while ED only gives 100db of mid/high. 
Click to expand...

 
To be honest, I'm having problems meshing the DTEC and CI together as the CI is really that much louder and muddying up the bass. Unless you have a clear inclination to experiment with low pass filters to tame the CI, I'd advice not using it.
 
Currently I have to use 2nd order lowpass to reduce the effects of the CI, but there are some interactions with the DTEC which reduces it's output too.
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 8:45 AM Post #1,833 of 16,031
piotrus-g said:
 
Don't use 29689 for mids use some other ED driver.
If you want use mid driver as full-range - pick driver that has higher impedance >10 Ohm. Overall ED family would be good choice.
Level bass output of CI with small resistor ~20 Ohm if combined with mid-tweeter driver or ~40Ohm+ if combined with full range driver.
Click to expand...

 
Thanks for the advice! Would the FED series be any good? I saw that FED30048 was sometimes used as mid drivers in certain IEM(s), but it is listed under hearing aid drivers. Is the ED29689 driver suitable for highs? I saw that the UERM used two of the same drivers for mid and high, which made me very interested in making an IEM with similar configurations. Are there any good drivers that I can use for both mid and high?
 
vector1 said:
   
To be honest, I'm having problems meshing the DTEC and CI together as the CI is really that much louder and muddying up the bass. Unless you have a clear inclination to experiment with low pass filters to tame the CI, I'd advice not using it.
 
Currently I have to use 2nd order lowpass to reduce the effects of the CI, but there are some interactions with the DTEC which reduces it's output too.
Click to expand...

 
I have a place where I can get all sorts of different tubing, made with different materials and diameters. I have access to PTFE, Silicon, Copper, Stainless steel with diameters as small as 0.3mm. So I was hoping to try a large amount of tubing to see which one performs best.
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 9:31 AM Post #1,834 of 16,031
xymordos said:
   
Thanks for the advice! Would the FED series be any good? I saw that FED30048 was sometimes used as mid drivers in certain IEM(s), but it is listed under hearing aid drivers. Is the ED29689 driver suitable for highs? I saw that the UERM used two of the same drivers for mid and high, which made me very interested in making an IEM with similar configurations. Are there any good drivers that I can use for both mid and high?
 
 
I have a place where I can get all sorts of different tubing, made with different materials and diameters. I have access to PTFE, Silicon, Copper, Stainless steel with diameters as small as 0.3mm. So I was hoping to try a large amount of tubing to see which one performs best.
Click to expand...

FED for mids - yes definitely but you'll need ED29689 to take over from around 1kHz.
You could use BK driver as well, it has nice range from 20 to 4000Hz.
 
Consider using ED-23619 with 10 Ohm resistor or ED-23162
If you want extra bass boost use ED-23147
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 9:33 AM Post #1,835 of 16,031
piotrus-g said:
  FED for mids - yes definitely but you'll need ED29689 to take over from around 1kHz.
You could use BK driver as well, it has nice range from 20 to 4000Hz.
 
Consider using ED-23619 with 10 Ohm resistor or ED-23162
If you want extra bass boost use ED-23147
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the suggestions! But what is wrong for ED29689 as mids? 
 
I actually wonder if there is a driver that you can use as both mid and highs, as in, for example ED29689 as mids, and ED29689 as highs. Since I see the UERM uses a similar configuration which seems to be Sonion drivers. The Knowles driver sizes didn't seem to match the two mid/high drivers on there.
 
Also, what's the difference between CI30050 and CI22955? (Sorry for all the questions :p)
 
Edit: Perhaps I'll have to stick a WBFK as highs...
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 9:48 AM Post #1,836 of 16,031
xymordos said:
  Thanks so much for the suggestions! But what is wrong for ED29689 as mids? 
 
I actually wonder if there is a driver that you can use as both mid and highs, as in, for example ED29689 as mids, and ED29689 as highs. Since I see the UERM uses a similar configuration which seems to be Sonion drivers. The Knowles driver sizes didn't seem to match the two mid/high drivers on there.
 
Also, what's the difference between CI30050 and CI22955? (Sorry for all the questions :p)
 
Edit: Perhaps I'll have to stick a WBFK as highs...
Click to expand...

It is tweeter. It has slightly "dry" mids, nothing that would sound extraordinary. You could use it as fullrange if you wanted, but it doesn't mean it will rock your socks off. Sonion has slightly different signature even drivers designed for the same target like ED26869 and Sonion 2389 sounds quite different.
 
IN UERM mids are carried by CI drivers.
 
difference between CI30050 and CI22955 - impedance and port location.
 
CI22955 - use as a full range with 3300 ohm damper 16mm-22mm tubing
ED26869 - use 1-2,2uF cap - 13-16mm tubing 680 ohm damper
WBFK - connect it in second order after ED with another 1uF 10-13mm tubing 680 damper
 
You'll get very nice "big" sound.
 
If you're unable to make 3x 2mmID tubing - use single tube for ED and WBFK.
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 9:57 AM Post #1,837 of 16,031
Thanks for the detailed explanation! 
 
I'll definitely use your suggestions, as well as play around with tubing material and lengths. That combination sounds pretty attractive to use actually. As tweeters, did you find out which driver is more resolving? WBFK or the 29689? I wanted to test out if a long long tube of small diameter (e.g. 0.3mm) would have a significant effect on bass, but I feel like if the tube is too long a lot of bass detail will be lost and all you hear will be a low thud. 
 
Edit: One interesting observation to note. My UERM has a faulty CI driver on one side that sometimes switches off randomly (not due to connection issues unfortunately...), and whenever it does that, you can hear the vocals still very clearly and focused, but the bottom (bass) half of the right side goes missing. The sound stage for the treble and mids still seems fine, but the bass part will collapse.
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 11:42 AM Post #1,838 of 16,031
xymordos said:
  Thanks for the detailed explanation! 
 
I'll definitely use your suggestions, as well as play around with tubing material and lengths. That combination sounds pretty attractive to use actually. As tweeters, did you find out which driver is more resolving? WBFK or the 29689? I wanted to test out if a long long tube of small diameter (e.g. 0.3mm) would have a significant effect on bass, but I feel like if the tube is too long a lot of bass detail will be lost and all you hear will be a low thud. 
 
Click to expand...

ED will sound more "natural" less aggressive.
WBFK will be more clearer in upper range 10kHz+
ED offers very good range between 1kHz to 16kHz
WBFK is best for 6kHz-20kHz range.
 
As for tubing, such small diameter and long tube will result in low pass filter - but I don't think there would be need for tube longer than 20mm to cut off highs, without cutting off bas-mid. You have to calculate it ...or measure it if you can.
Any longer tube like 30mm will result in phase incoherency between other drivers.
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 9:02 PM Post #1,839 of 16,031
Ah I see! So WBFK would be used as a super tweeter, while ED can be used for the highs. 
For the phase incoherence of the bass driver, I was thinking of perhaps having a driver for low bass and have it deliberately slightly phase incoherent, but with acoustic low pass filter to make it only output delayed super low bass to make the sound more interesting. Would be interesting to test it!
 
Jun 20, 2014 at 11:31 PM Post #1,840 of 16,031
^ You don't need to care much about phase alignment of the sub woofer as quarter wavelength of sub 1khz frequencies is about 8cm and above. However beware of the slope at your cutoff frequency, if it's not steep enough the sub woofer's phase might screw up the lower midrange region.
 
Jun 21, 2014 at 8:11 AM Post #1,841 of 16,031
piotrus-g said:
 
CI22955 - use as a full range with 3300 ohm damper 16mm-22mm tubing
ED26869 - use 1-2,2uF cap - 13-16mm tubing 680 ohm damper
WBFK - connect it in second order after ED with another 1uF 10-13mm tubing 680 damper
 
Click to expand...

 
So according to this my cutoff points would be ~3kHz and ~12kHz? Hope my calculations are correct :p 
 
@tranhieu I see, so I'll have to find a way to sharply drop off the frequencies of CI above 1kHz for a long tubing to work. This must be quite difficult to do since most crossovers seem to drop off not that steep. 
 
Jun 21, 2014 at 8:26 AM Post #1,842 of 16,031
xymordos said:
   
So according to this my cutoff points would be ~3kHz and ~12kHz? Hope my calculations are correct :p 
 
@tranhieu I see, so I'll have to find a way to sharply drop off the frequencies of CI above 1kHz for a long tubing to work. This must be quite difficult to do since most crossovers seem to drop off not that steep. 
Click to expand...

Pretty much.
 
Use dampers to attenuate frequencies above 1kHz.
 
Jun 21, 2014 at 9:17 PM Post #1,843 of 16,031
I managed to lift off the solder pads and break the wires on both my WBFKs that I ordered, so I have another 4 more on the way in case I destroy more. Be careful with the heat applied to the driver when soldering! The larger drivers can tolerate more, but the tiny WBFKs aren't too good.
 
I have also found that a 2nd order lowpass filter does reduce the CI to a low "thud", but as I'm leaning on the DTEC for the mids, my initial plan of getting the subbass from CI alone seems to be working out. Next step is to insert the red acoustic filters and see if I can get away with a first order.
 
I'll have to test the whole system once I get the WBFKs next week, but before it broke, the WBFK just gave that little sparkle to the highs without affecting the mids too much. The slightly lower sensitivity is somewhat of a bonus since it doesn't make the sound signature too bright, but I'll test further with different capacitor values.
 
Jun 22, 2014 at 10:54 AM Post #1,845 of 16,031
piotrus-g said:
  Your design, Vector, is missing ~2,5kHz peak needed to make sound "clear" or "naturally bright".
Click to expand...

 
Unless I'm reading the FR graphs wrongly, I thought the DTECs handle that range particularly well? At least, a WBFK + DTEC should provide sufficient upper mid range response, coupled with my acoustic tuning by increasing inner diameter of passages to ~1.4mm. I can increase this further to boost the 1-2kHz response if I feel that the mids are too recessed.
 
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