Impact of copy protected CD's
Apr 7, 2003 at 3:56 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 50
Watchdog

Watchdog

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I'm noticing more and more copy protected CD's in the stores now.

Has anyone tried to copy these discs to their computer? I presume that if the copy protection works that you can't. Does this mean that you can't transfer this music to an iPod or similar device?

In that's the case then does anyone think MD will become more popular as I would think you could always record to MD by playing the disc on a regular CD player and recording via either the digital or analog connections in real time. The CL NJB3 would be able to record this way as well.

Opinions?
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 6:12 AM Post #2 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by Watchdog
I'm noticing more and more copy protected CD's in the stores now.

Has anyone tried to copy these discs to their computer? I presume that if the copy protection works that you can't. Does this mean that you can't transfer this music to an iPod or similar device?

In that's the case then does anyone think MD will become more popular as I would think you could always record to MD by playing the disc on a regular CD player and recording via either the digital or analog connections in real time. The CL NJB3 would be able to record this way as well.

Opinions?


You could just as easily do this with a mini to mini cable running from the line out of your sound card to the line in I guess. Or from a CDP to the line in. Even copy protection for games and software are easily broken, the ones for music aren't really that hard. Just make an exact copy with Clone CD, usually does the trick. I heard that there was one copy protection that was easily defeated by using a DVD ROM instead of a regular CD ROM.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 6:18 AM Post #3 of 50
I even heard that a dumb copy protection from SONY can be broken simply by a marker.
biggrin.gif

A copy protection tech by SONY is that CD-ROM can recognize the protection track so that your computer will be dead when the CD-ROM is trying to read these data. But CDP cannot recognize them so that CDP can just play it. The solution is using a marker to "cover" the protection track so that nothing can recognize them. I am not sure if this is the mainstream copy protection tech though.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 11:10 AM Post #4 of 50
diablo9, nice avatar!

What we have to do is return copy-protected CDs. Once a store notices that copy protected CDs are being returned they will not stock them and if they can't be sold it will not take long before copy-protected CDs are no longer produced. For us it's inconvenient but if we want CDs that really are CDs (conform to the redbook standard) this is what it will take.

Imagine Virgin says they will not stock CDs that are copy protected because of too many returns. Imagine Sony Music says they won't supply any CDs until Virgin stocks its entire catalog - who needs who more?
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 12:52 PM Post #5 of 50
Quote:

What we have to do is return copy-protected CDs.


Er... has anyone successfully returned a CD for a full return (not an exact exchange)? Most stores have an "exchange for the same title" policy for opened CD's to allow for problem discs and such. But I doubt you'll get a complete cash return because your computer can't play it. Do you think you can argue that it doesn't conform to the redbook standard, and that it was not clearly stated as such on the label, to the clerk idiot behind the cash register at BB, CC, HMV, or your local independent record shop (most likely success)? Good luck, and let me know what happens.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 2:08 PM Post #6 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by jpelg
Do you think you can argue that it doesn't conform to the redbook standard, and that it was not clearly stated as such on the label, to the clerk idiot behind the cash register at BB, CC, HMV, or your local independent record shop (most likely success)? Good luck, and let me know what happens.


i believe that all copy-protected cds in canada have to be labeled now. there is a small sticker of some kind that tells if the cd is protected or not, as far as i understand anyway. i have yet to have a problem ripping any cd that i own, but i am not looking forward to the day that i do run into problems.

i don't believe this is the law in america, and our cds are either not copy-protected or just go unlabeled. if i were canadian, i would not buy any of the cds that are protected. download them instead, the record companies deserve it if honest people have to put up with that garbage.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 3:42 PM Post #7 of 50
Just use softwares such as EAC and let it do a manual read of the TOC(Table of Contents).

Copy protected CDs has a pre-written faulty TOC that the computer reads and messes up the timing of track changes. The manual read finds the right gaps between tracks and thus the ripping becomes possible.

I think the copy protection is more of a policy working against people buying original copies of CDs, and I prefer not have these companies alter w/ these things and possibly causing higher jitter than there already is.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 7:13 PM Post #8 of 50
for myself I don't wanna buy any protected CD. I like to duplicate my CDs and sometime I would listen to the duplication to avoid the scatch on the original copy.
But personally I have to say that downloading music and duplication by piration guys is really killing the music industry. It's reasonable for those guys to figure out how can they survive...
I heard that recently BMG sold out its classical branch to another company because it doesn't make money...
frown.gif
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 10:36 PM Post #9 of 50
I think the real big concern in copy protection is audible watermarks. This is a process where audible data is incorporated into the music -- you can potentially hear this -- so the copywrite is transmitted even in analog copies. Just horrible what they are willing to do to the sound in the name of copy protection. As consumers our only response can be to NOT BUY. Maybe the RIAA will figure out it needs a new paradigm to make money. Somebody is always going to figure a way to rip it off. The RIAA is shooting themselves in the foot.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 10:42 PM Post #10 of 50
i personally HATE copy-protected CDs..... cause they don't play in my CD player/recorder! ...sometimes i have to reinsert the CD more than 10 times before it plays. .....but eventually they do play...... so i dunno if this is the same copy protection scheme you guys are talking about......

but then again, the music industry does need to find a way to deture music privacy. if piracy continues the way it has, expect to see less music out there..... and that would be bad for all of us. many musicians already are poor and live out of their cars.......... take away profits from CDs..... then forget about making any kind of living from music.

but i don't think copy-protected CDs are the way to go..... they take away the rights of legitimate consumers who need to make copies and such...... and people like me can't even play the damn CDs! and of course, there will always be ways around copy protection....
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 11:14 PM Post #11 of 50
I agree with Orpheus. Copy protected CD's are bad for consumers, but something has to be done about piracy.

I don't have any great ideas or solutions to the problem. Hopefully someone will think of something that will work for all groups.

Even artists who are sell a lot of music don't necessarily reap the financial rewards, the labels are the ones who take the majority of the revenue. The big labels have huge overheads.

I wonder if small recording studios will start to take a larger market share. You have to wonder who the big selling artists would be if there weren't these huge marketing budgets. Would you ever have music like Britney Spears if there wasn't a big promotion budget?
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 11:16 PM Post #12 of 50
I think a better way could be producing a CD that you can't grab the CD tracks in 100%. so that you CAN duplicate the CD by your own but you will lose the sound quality. so people like me would not buy pirate since it's not 100% identical with the original one.
actually the general thought of SONY is quite right. if regular computer cannot recognize the CD. most people won't be able to duplicate it. and you can still enjoy the music on CDP.
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 11:46 PM Post #13 of 50
If you buy a piece of music in any format, you as the consumer are entitled to copy that piece of music as many times and to as many other formats as you desire, as long as it is for your own personal use (ie not distributing it).

Copy protected CDs infringe on this right, therefore is an inferior product compared to CDs without copyright protection. Not only does it prevent copying of CD (easily), but it also prevents playback on computers (and some real cd players), resulting in an even more inferior product.

Consumers drive the market for any product, let your wallet do the talking - I personally will never purchase a CD that is copy protected because I often listen to all my CDs on my computer.

-dd3mon
 
Apr 7, 2003 at 11:55 PM Post #14 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by dd3mon
If you buy a piece of music in any format, you as the consumer are entitled to copy that piece of music as many times and to as many other formats as you desire, as long as it is for your own personal use (ie not distributing it).

Copy protected CDs infringe on this right, therefore is an inferior product compared to CDs without copyright protection. Not only does it prevent copying of CD (easily), but it also prevents playback on computers (and some real cd players), resulting in an even more inferior product.

Consumers drive the market for any product, let your wallet do the talking - I personally will never purchase a CD that is copy protected because I often listen to all my CDs on my computer.

-dd3mon


yes you are right but we are talking about a REALY consumer. Piration guys are not REAL consumers. Obviously it's illegal to duplicate the CD and sell it on market. The object of copy protection is to fight against those guys instead of us consumers
 
Apr 8, 2003 at 1:06 AM Post #15 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by diablo9
I think a better way could be producing a CD that you can't grab the CD tracks in 100%. so that you CAN duplicate the CD by your own but you will lose the sound quality. so people like me would not buy pirate since it's not 100% identical with the original one.
actually the general thought of SONY is quite right. if regular computer cannot recognize the CD. most people won't be able to duplicate it. and you can still enjoy the music on CDP.


I don't have a problem with CD's that would only give you say 99% of the sound quality if copied and continue to degrade each generation. I'm only making copies for my car so I don't lose the original if the car gets broken into. This probably isn't enough to stop the pirates though. Buy one legit copy and make a thousand good copies.
 
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