[SkinnyPuppy]

 
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"Enough" is the key word here.  Will you get adequate volume?  Yes.  Will they sound as good as they do out of full sized amps?  Probably not.
 
The general rule of thumb on head-fi is that you shouldn't buy a portable amp to drive full sized phones unless you really need portability.  High impedance full sized cans (like Sennheisers and Beyers) generally require ample voltage swing.  This is why tube amps are such a popular solution for driving them and why portable amps running off a 9volt typically don't generate rave reviews.
 
 

What about the Mav Audio D1 Tube amp/DAC? I don't care about portability, I care about price.
 
 

 

[jtaylor991]

OK my Senn HD650s came. They have all the details and everything (coming from a FiiO E7 by USB). I kind of hate the laid back sound. I didn't take laid back literally like away from you sound. The vocals and guitars and everything sound like they are on the direct right and left sides of you, and far away. There is no in front of you sound, like a stage performance. I turned it up a bit and after playing a few songs it already sounds a little better. It sounds like this will be fixed with burn in. I hope! Plus, these are iTunes Store files BTW. Maybe when I get some rock CDs to lossless rip and an L7 to hook my E7 up to my Darkvoice 337 tube amp they will really shine.

 

[tdockweiler]

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OK my Senn HD650s came. They have all the details and everything (coming from a FiiO E7 by USB). I kind of hate the laid back sound. I didn't take laid back literally like away from you sound. The vocals and guitars and everything sound like they are on the direct right and left sides of you, and far away. There is no in front of you sound, like a stage performance. I turned it up a bit and after playing a few songs it already sounds a little better. It sounds like this will be fixed with burn in. I hope! Plus, these are iTunes Store files BTW. Maybe when I get some rock CDs to lossless rip and an L7 to hook my E7 up to my Darkvoice 337 tube amp they will really shine.

It should sound way better when you use a more powerful amp. I really don't know how well a tube amp is with the HD-650 and I always heard solid state amps were best for the HD-650.
One thing you could do is try and make a new cable for cheap. That can really improve things and would cost only under $30. I prefer Mogami with my old HD-650. It's a fun project and not too difficult.
 
With different amps and cables you can really make it a bit more energetic and less laid back. Of course that's a pain. It took my Headroom Micro Amp for me to really like it. I prefer it on that over the Asgard.
Strangely enough I never found the HD-650 horrible from a fairly good portable amp. It actually sound quite good out of my Airhead!
 
 
 
 

 

[Gradofan2]

 
good Quote:

OK my Senn HD650s came. They have all the details and everything (coming from a FiiO E7 by USB). I kind of hate the laid back sound. I didn't take laid back literally like away from you sound. The vocals and guitars and everything sound like they are on the direct right and left sides of you, and far away. There is no in front of you sound, like a stage performance. I turned it up a bit and after playing a few songs it already sounds a little better. It sounds like this will be fixed with burn in. I hope! Plus, these are iTunes Store files BTW. Maybe when I get some rock CDs to lossless rip and an L7 to hook my E7 up to my Darkvoice 337 tube amp they will really shine.

They are superb with the DV amps... but... you may have to get a good CDP, or good DAC, for the sound to really shine.   And they do need a good amp with high voltage output - to realize their full capability.
 
 

 

[Ultrainferno]

 
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The HD-800 seem like a pretty remarkable departure from the Sennheiser house sound that I've loved since about a month into owning the HD-650s, so unless they've got an HD-700 in the works that takes the HD-650 sound and builds on that...

I agree. I expected the H800 to be a super version of the HD650. In one way they are of course, but I did not like their sound signature at all. A HD700 might be nice indeed.
 


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What about the Mav Audio D1 Tube amp/DAC? I don't care about portability, I care about price.
 
 

The D1 is a reasonable dac/pre amp for the price. Don't buy this as a headphone amp, thats part is not really good on the D1.
Maybe check out the Audio GD NFB12 or something alike?
 

 

[LugBug1]

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What I'm saying is that according to them, at least, it's just a different color of acoustically transparent material; if they did change the drivers that's a different story, I've only heard that, not seen it, and not asked anyone in the know about it either so I couldn't comment.
 
Regardless, I'm not at all dissatisfied with my HD-650s, I know only that they sound fantastic and I am happy to have them

I should hope that's the same for other HD-650 owners. As long as they sound awesome it doesn't matter whether the acoustically transparent material is black or white.
 

Yeah, it never affected Michael Jacksons voice either!
 
Just to add, I got mine around 2005-06 and they are the newer type with the silvery mesh stuff covering the drivers. It's easy to have a look at this material, you just remove the pads and look behind the foam. Or better still just remove the foam, they sound a bit more crisp!    

 

[FearSC549]

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For those of you who are curious, here are some pictures of the old 'black silk' version of the drivers and newer 'steel mesh' version.
 
New= thicker Duofol material with parts number printed on diaphragm.
Old= thinner, shinier, with a number stamped on to the center of the diaphragm.
 
The back is the exact same thing, didn't want to take pictures of it. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Someone was looking for this?
 

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

What's the significant difference there? Surely having some text printed on them doesn't change the driver characteristics, does it?
 
The way Duofoil (or, what AKG sort of borrowed technologically and named Varimotion) works is the center of the driver would be a dust cover in a larger loudspeaker. But that's crap, wastes space, and anyway loudspeakers need to be rigid while headphone drivers need to flex. Except even at that micro level you still end up with some undesirable artifacts of the flex of the drivers as the waveform returns to the center... And anyway, you can do something neat with the center bit. Make it stiffer, less flexible, and engineer it properly; it'll act as sort of a discrete tweeter, unaffected by the rest of the driver, beaming high frequencies while the rest of the driver handles lower frequencies.
 
On the AKGs it's 80um and 40um for the center and the rest, respectively. I suppose it's possible that the membranous material underwent some sort of a tweak with the printed-on adjustment on the HD-650s. I don't have any data to claim otherwise, that's certain. They look a bit different optically - the newer driver seems slightly more diffuse, but I am not sure if that's data or just an impression that I get from the photo, since it seems the same in some photos and different in others. Is it more matte? Is that due to a material redesign or just that it's being printed on now? Does it affect the sound? I don't know, but it is a treat to get to see a very small but very well-engineered driver up close like that, thanks for posting those pics.

 

[Guest5]

HD 650 need a powerful amp to shine. It is true. I dislike how they sound straight from Audiotrak Dr.Dac2. It is loud, but at the same time not brilliant at all, it sounds just like a usual cheaper headphone like say HD555, or 595 but with more bass, lean and muddy in the bass. But with a tube amp HD 650 is like nothing I have ever heard. Powerful and articulate, realistic and engaging so that 595s is like a mere toy beside HD 650.  

 

[SkinnyPuppy]

 
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The D1 is a reasonable dac/pre amp for the price. Don't buy this as a headphone amp, thats part is not really good on the D1. Maybe check out the Audio GD NFB12 or something alike?
 

How would this compare to the E7/E9?

 

[olor1n]

My LCD-2 rev.2 is on hiatus for a few weeks. Gonna have to slum it and listen to the HD650 for the time being.

 

[Gradofan2]

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HD 650 need a powerful amp to shine.   

That they do... as I sit here enthralled with them ("new version" HD650's) driven by my WA6 SEm and my Monarchy M24 Tube DAC / Line Stage... I never heard anything better in all respects.  The WA6 SEm is just a phenomenal amp - the Blackgates just make it sing!
 
After my brief dalliance with the 007's, 507's, and HE-500's... I can honestly say... this set up sounds better than those - the HD580/600/650's rise to the occassion with great amps and sources that match them well.  Oh sure, there are some aspects of each of those phones that excel, but none are perfect in all respects... but... the HD650's are... at least very close.  And... I'd say the AD2000's are close.  I have a difficult time deciding between the two.   
 
While they sound truly great out of my Millett Hybrid Minimax... they sound even better with my WA6 SEm!
 
Sure I like my RS-1's and AD2000's... and... even the MD5000's - at the moment this setup may top everything.
 
If you want to "be done with it," and know you've got the best... or... at least equivalent to it... just get yourself some, and stop your search - knowing there is nothing better.
 
 

 

[olor1n]

^ Amen to that. I'm still unsure about going the next tier and rebuilding my rig around the LCD-2. I feel I'm already there with the HD650 and the synergy through my system. The LCD-2 is undeniably superior technically, but I'd be lying if I said it increased my enjoyment of the music. This has fortified my belief that the HD650 is at the absolute precipice of diminishing returns.

 

[caracara08]

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^ Amen to that. I'm still unsure about going the next tier and rebuilding my rig around the LCD-2. I feel I'm already there with the HD650 and the synergy through my system. The LCD-2 is undeniably superior technically, but I'd be lying if I said it increased my enjoyment of the music. This has fortified my belief that the HD650 is at the absolute precipice of diminishing returns.

rea you talking about the lyr + hd650? 

 

[olor1n]

Yep. Gear in my sig. Note that I find the opamp in my dac, tubes in the Lyr, BJC rca cables, Furutech usb and Molecule cable for the HD650 to have significant effect on synergy... imho, fwiw, ymmv, etc..