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Sennheiser HD650 Impressions Thread - Page 144

post #2146 of 36850

Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

I admit - was being douchy.  Just wanted to 'poke yr ribs' about it - not insult you full-on.  Sorry if I offended.

 

Not at all man.  It's all good...I actually had no idea it was 'case in point', I'm sure you saved me some embarrassment somewhere down the road.

 

-

 

I've seen that video a long time ago..didn't recognize the face though.

post #2147 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

The HRT MSII+ has made such a difference with my HD 650s that I may actually delay my amp (Sorry Jason) and can upgrade!

'Course, I'd have to stop visiting Head-Fi...


As nice as the Lyr looks, I think the next sensible step (if building your setup around the HD650) is to go balanced.

 

The improvement you're hearing in SQ is due to the PCM1794 DAC employed in the HRT, as opposed to the WM8740 found in the E7. As I've previously stated, the E7 sounded wonderful as a DAC when I upgraded from onboard sound. The WM8741 employed in the Fun however, highlighted its lack of transparency and refinement. It lacked resolution and sounded congested next to its big brother.


Edited by olor1n - 1/6/11 at 10:11pm
post #2148 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post




As nice as the Lyr looks, I think the next sensible step (if building your setup around the HD650) is to go balanced.

 

The improvement you're hearing in SQ is due to the PCM1794 DAC employed in the HRT, as opposed to the WM8740 found in the E7. As I've previously stated, the E7 sounded wonderful as a DAC when I upgraded from onboard sound. The WM8741 employed in the Fun however, highlighted its lack of transparency and refinement. It lacked resolution and sounded congested next to its big brother.



 

I'm thinking Lyr because it's powerful enough to power ANYTHING I throw at it and SE is the standard headphone plug that everything comes with.

I would like to move up to Planar Magnetics eventually - and the Lyr will power it.

At the point that I want balanced ports, I'll move up to HRT Streamer Pro (or similar DAC), and a balanced amp. Right now though, I want to experience a few higher end cans without investing in a full balanced system and recabling EVERY set of headphones I want to own. Everything scales up dramatically in price when you move to balanced.
post #2149 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

what are you sorry to me about? i'm lost.
 





 

I was apologizing (tongue in cheek) to Jason Stoddard because the new DAC sounds so good with the HD 650s and E9 that I may delay getting the Schiit Lyr and LCD-2s.
post #2150 of 36850

Quote:

Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post
I'm thinking Lyr because it's powerful enough to power ANYTHING I throw at it and SE is the standard headphone plug that everything comes with.I would like to move up to Planar Magnetics eventually - and the Lyr will power it.At the point that I want balanced ports, I'll move up to HRT Streamer Pro (or similar DAC), and a balanced amp. Right now though, I want to experience a few higher end cans without investing in a full balanced system and recabling EVERY set of headphones I want to own. Everything scales up dramatically in price when you move to balanced.


Even though I just purchased the Audio GD Fun and the 650s (and they aren't even here yet - ETA next week) ... I've already been thinking about upgrading the chain.  I found myself oogling over the v-dac and actually planning out how to fund it.  Of course, having just bought the combo unit for $325 it would be silly to throw $300 at a dac next.  I could've just used the $325 I paid for the Fun on an amp in that case.  So I've resolved to stay with the Audio GD Fun for at least 6 months.  At that point though, I might want to leap frog to one of the best possible set-ups, which I keep hearing (with the 650s) is a balanced set-up.  Since it looks like you've ben doing some reading on it, maybe you can shed some knowledge..how exactly does one go balanced?

 

I've also heard a balanced phone + balanced amp, required a balanced source, so is the HRT Streamer Pro balanced?  

 

 

 


Edited by sphinxvc - 1/7/11 at 7:04am
post #2151 of 36850

And a question for you jasonb - Seeing as the Headroom desktop dac / amp is about $900 and therefore (I'm assuming) more powerful than the Audio GD Fun, can it handle the planar magnetics should you eventually decide to try 'em out?

 

(Yes of course price doesn't include performance but when there's that much of a difference in price between two products an increase in ability/performance is safe to assume, right?)


Edited by sphinxvc - 1/7/11 at 7:05am
post #2152 of 36850

The Lyr is a beast but it is not a balanced amp. The Audio-GD NFB-10WM is calling out to me even though I'm loving my setup at the moment. It uses dual WM8741 for the DAC and also has a normal 1/4" socket for unbalanced headphones. I'm anxiously waiting for the reviews to pop up.

post #2153 of 36850

For a balanced source, you might want to read up on the Matrix Mini-I. $300 and it has very positive reviews by users on this site.

post #2154 of 36850

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

The Lyr is a beast but it is not a balanced amp. The Audio-GD NFB-10WM is calling out to me even though I'm loving my setup at the moment. It uses dual WM8741 for the DAC and also has a normal 1/4" socket for unbalanced headphones. I'm anxiously waiting for the reviews to pop up.

Yep, I realized, I think I edited my post at the same time you posted this.

 

NFB-10WM looks awesome, just looked into it.  It's definitely in my sights along with the Headroom desktop amp/dac.  I'll admit I'm still slightly biased towards separate components though...the reason is simple: separate units means less compromises.  For example the NFB-10WM is about $900.  So assuming I get the best dac I can get for about $450, would the NFB-10WM's dac section be able to compete?  The same for the amp section.  (I wouldn't go in half-half with the $900 anyway, but just for arguments sake)  It seems like a certain amount of the total $900 would go into the convenience of an all-in-one instead of performance (and the design costs of making these compromises rolleyes.gif)

 

Am I overlooking something here?


Edited by sphinxvc - 1/7/11 at 8:28am
post #2155 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

The Lyr is a beast but it is not a balanced amp. The Audio-GD NFB-10WM is calling out to me even though I'm loving my setup at the moment. It uses dual WM8741 for the DAC and also has a normal 1/4" socket for unbalanced headphones. I'm anxiously waiting for the reviews to pop up.

Yep, I realized, I think I edited my post at the same time you posted this.

 

NFB-10WM looks awesome, just looked into it.  It's definitely in my sights along with the Headroom desktop amp/dac.  I'll admit I'm still slightly biased towards separate components though...the reason is simple: separate units means less compromises.  For example the NFB-10WM is about $900.  So assuming I get the best dac I can get for about $450, would the NFB-10WM's dac section be able to compete?  The same for the amp section.  (I wouldn't go in half-half with the $900 anyway, but just for arguments sake)  It seems like a certain amount of the total $900 would go into the convenience of an all-in-one instead of performance (and the design costs of making these compromises rolleyes.gif)

 

Am I overlooking something here?

 

 

Other than their recent troubles with the ES9018 chip, Audio-GD have a pretty damn good track record of churning out quality gear that presents great bang for buck (probably more so in their higher end gear). Rather than looking at it as an all in one being more expensive than equivalent separate components, it wouldn't be too far off the mark to assume that it would instead compete against gear in higher price brackets. The assumption that you'd be paying for the convenience has never been the case in any of their other gear.


Edited by olor1n - 1/7/11 at 9:57am
post #2156 of 36850

 

Streamer Pro is balanced and costs about $500. The Violectric 180 is a balanced and SE port amp - but does it have the power to push Planars? Dunno.

The Lyr is just such a deal ($449 for tube/SS hybrid, American company, refreshingly engaged customer service, STELLAR warranty, and powerful enough to power ANYTHING) that I'd rather, if I go balanced, wait for a Schiit balanced version of a Lyr type product.

It's that sort of customer care that makes me a rabid fan of a company - it's why I'm a Mac user even though it means a few limitations and compromises.

The main benefit of balanced is a low noise floor. I was going to go with a Meyer concerto because it seems developed to achieve the same results with SE, and it drives the LCD-2 quite well... But I've heard great things about the Schiit line and when you factor in all the other factors, including the amazing price, it just seems like a no brainer to me.

Lastly, although HD 650 and LCD-2 are easily recabled without solder, some of the other high ends aren't. So if I go balanced, I would have cans that I can't demo with other chains that aren't balanced. Lastly, there is the cost of upgrading the chain and cables to balanced.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Also, as great as I hear the Audio G-D products are, the idea of placing $1.5k in the hands of a distant Chinese company gives me pause. I haven't looked into the warranty, but the hassle of transcontinental shipping, the delays involved, the uncertainty and possible infrequency of communication that's limited to email - all give me pause.

This is NOT a slam on Audio G-D - I've heard rave reviews! I wouldn't mind trying out a FUN, and it's significantly cheaper - so getting hosed on it (if it happened) would not bum me out as much. It's weird that I'm at a a stage of my life where a couple hundred dollars doesn't have an earth-shattering effect on my life/happiness, but it doesn't. $1.5-2k dollars is money with which I'm significantly more....'thoughtful'.
post #2157 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

 

Streamer Pro is balanced and costs about $500. The Violectric 180 is a balanced and SE port amp - but does it have the power to push Planars? Dunno.

The Lyr is just such a deal ($449 for tube/SS hybrid, American company, refreshingly engaged customer service, STELLAR warranty, and powerful enough to power ANYTHING) that I'd rather, if I go balanced, wait for a Schiit balanced version of a Lyr type product.

It's that sort of customer care that makes me a rabid fan of a company - it's why I'm a Mac user even though it means a few limitations and compromises.

The main benefit of balanced is a low noise floor. I was going to go with a Meyer concerto because it seems developed to achieve the same results with SE, and it drives the LCD-2 quite well... But I've heard great things about the Schiit line and when you factor in all the other factors, including the amazing price, it just seems like a no brainer to me.

Lastly, although HD 650 and LCD-2 are easily recabled without solder, some of the other high ends aren't. So if I go balanced, I would have cans that I can't demo with other chains that aren't balanced. Lastly, there is the cost of upgrading the chain and cables to balanced.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Also, as great as I hear the Audio G-D products are, the idea of placing $1.5k in the hands of a distant Chinese company gives me pause. I haven't looked into the warranty, but the hassle of transcontinental shipping, the delays involved, the uncertainty and possible infrequency of communication that's limited to email - all give me pause.

This is NOT a slam on Audio G-D - I've heard rave reviews! I wouldn't mind trying out a FUN, and it's significantly cheaper - so getting hosed on it (if it happened) would not bum me out as much. It's weird that I'm at a a stage of my life where a couple hundred dollars doesn't have an earth-shattering effect on my life/happiness, but it doesn't. $1.5-2k dollars is money with which I'm significantly more....'thoughtful'.


Those are valid concerns that I also share to an extent. Their gear regardless of price bracket, presents great value and when I take their generally good track record into account, for me it's really no different to ordering gear from say an American company, where transcontinental shipping would also be involved. I can only speak of my dealings with them but I've always had prompt response from either Edwin or Kingwa himself (despite the language barrier).

post #2158 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

 

Streamer Pro is balanced and costs about $500. The Violectric 180 is a balanced and SE port amp - but does it have the power to push Planars? Dunno.

The Lyr is just such a deal ($449 for tube/SS hybrid, American company, refreshingly engaged customer service, STELLAR warranty, and powerful enough to power ANYTHING) that I'd rather, if I go balanced, wait for a Schiit balanced version of a Lyr type product.

It's that sort of customer care that makes me a rabid fan of a company - it's why I'm a Mac user even though it means a few limitations and compromises.

The main benefit of balanced is a low noise floor. I was going to go with a Meyer concerto because it seems developed to achieve the same results with SE, and it drives the LCD-2 quite well... But I've heard great things about the Schiit line and when you factor in all the other factors, including the amazing price, it just seems like a no brainer to me.

Lastly, although HD 650 and LCD-2 are easily recabled without solder, some of the other high ends aren't. So if I go balanced, I would have cans that I can't demo with other chains that aren't balanced. Lastly, there is the cost of upgrading the chain and cables to balanced.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Also, as great as I hear the Audio G-D products are, the idea of placing $1.5k in the hands of a distant Chinese company gives me pause. I haven't looked into the warranty, but the hassle of transcontinental shipping, the delays involved, the uncertainty and possible infrequency of communication that's limited to email - all give me pause.

This is NOT a slam on Audio G-D - I've heard rave reviews! I wouldn't mind trying out a FUN, and it's significantly cheaper - so getting hosed on it (if it happened) would not bum me out as much. It's weird that I'm at a a stage of my life where a couple hundred dollars doesn't have an earth-shattering effect on my life/happiness, but it doesn't. $1.5-2k dollars is money with which I'm significantly more....'thoughtful'.


Those are valid concerns that I also share to an extent. Their gear regardless of price bracket, presents great value and when I take their generally good track record into account, for me it's really no different to ordering gear from say an American company, where transcontinental shipping would also be involved. I can only speak of my dealings with them but I've always had prompt response from either Edwin or Kingwa himself (despite the language barrier).


The other barrier for me is trying to figure out just what a product IS.  The FUN was incredibly difficult for me to figure out based on the website - you were a lot more helpful in explaining to me just what the different opamps and modules were, what they were for, what they did, etc (as well as how difficult or easy they are to change out).

 

I can't even assure myself that I'd be able to order exactly what I wanted from the website.  Maybe if I took my ADHD meds right before ordering it would help a little, but I usually save them for work (I want to have a personality on my free time, as chaotic as it may be).

post #2159 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post
Other than their recent troubles with the ES9018 chip, Audio-GD have a pretty damn good track record of churning out quality gear that presents great bang for buck (probably more so in their higher end gear). Rather than looking at it as an all in one being more expensive than equivalent separate components, it wouldn't be too far off the mark to assume that it would instead compete against gear in higher price brackets. The assumption that you'd be paying for the convenience has never been the case in any of their other gear.


I never looked at it that way, I'll definitely have to look into that (the details of the components used in the NFB-10WM versus gear in higher price brackets that use the same components) - but if what you say is true, then I definitely understand how the NFB-10WM would make sense.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

 

Streamer Pro is balanced and costs about $500. The Violectric 180 is a balanced and SE port amp - but does it have the power to push Planars? Dunno.

The Lyr is just such a deal ($449 for tube/SS hybrid, American company, refreshingly engaged customer service, STELLAR warranty, and powerful enough to power ANYTHING) that I'd rather, if I go balanced, wait for a Schiit balanced version of a Lyr type product.

It's that sort of customer care that makes me a rabid fan of a company - it's why I'm a Mac user even though it means a few limitations and compromises.

The main benefit of balanced is a low noise floor. I was going to go with a Meyer concerto because it seems developed to achieve the same results with SE, and it drives the LCD-2 quite well... But I've heard great things about the Schiit line and when you factor in all the other factors, including the amazing price, it just seems like a no brainer to me.

Lastly, although HD 650 and LCD-2 are easily recabled without solder, some of the other high ends aren't. So if I go balanced, I would have cans that I can't demo with other chains that aren't balanced. Lastly, there is the cost of upgrading the chain and cables to balanced.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Also, as great as I hear the Audio G-D products are, the idea of placing $1.5k in the hands of a distant Chinese company gives me pause. I haven't looked into the warranty, but the hassle of transcontinental shipping, the delays involved, the uncertainty and possible infrequency of communication that's limited to email - all give me pause.

This is NOT a slam on Audio G-D - I've heard rave reviews! I wouldn't mind trying out a FUN, and it's significantly cheaper - so getting hosed on it (if it happened) would not bum me out as much. It's weird that I'm at a a stage of my life where a couple hundred dollars doesn't have an earth-shattering effect on my life/happiness, but it doesn't. $1.5-2k dollars is money with which I'm significantly more....'thoughtful'.

 

Audio GD's customer service is pretty good so far.  They reply to email queries within 6 hrs in my experience.  Although I understand your concerns regarding transcontinental shipping, I'm worried that if my Fun needs to be shipped back I'll probably have to shell out, at the least, a $100 for crappy USPS.  The safer carriers wouldn't even be an option.


Edited by sphinxvc - 1/7/11 at 10:39am
post #2160 of 36850
Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post


The other barrier for me is trying to figure out just what a product IS.  The FUN was incredibly difficult for me to figure out based on the website - you were a lot more helpful in explaining to me just what the different opamps and modules were, what they were for, what they did, etc (as well as how difficult or easy they are to change out).

 

I can't even assure myself that I'd be able to order exactly what I wanted from the website.  Maybe if I took my ADHD meds right before ordering it would help a little, but I usually save them for work (I want to have a personality on my free time, as chaotic as it may be).


There are some very knowledgeable members in the dedicated threads that can help pierce through the technical jargon and the horrible English translation on their site. I learned a lot lurking the Audio-GD related threads before I became a member and got great help when I started asking questions. I don't understand the technicalities. All I know is that I wasn't led astray and that Kingwa is a madman who'll never compromise (ES9018 tribulations further proof of this).

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