[SP Wild]

  I have a bit of good news to post today.   After several years if fence sitting I am now an HD650 owner.
 
I drove to the PO this morning and picked it up and once back home, I fired up my amp and let it warm up for 10 minutes or so.   I kind of like a full 20 minutes of warm up but I couldn't wait.  I adjusted the tension springs to fit my melon and put in disc one of The Wall, I think by Goodbye Blue Sky the Little Dot was fully warmed up.   Disc 1 was followed by disc 2.  This is the first time in a long time I've listened to The Wall in it's entirety, all in one sitting.
 
I've heard the 650s on a couple of occasion and having owned, and loved, the 580s for a while the 650 was hardly a new experience for me.  I try to be fairly frugal with headphone gear and it was somewhat tough to talk myself into this purchase, but I'm glad I did.
 
From the Little Dot MKIVse, these headphones are as nice as I expected them to be and it still kind of surprises me that a headphone with such laid-back treble can still have so much resolution.  Many folks seem to equate bright with detailed, but this headphone proves that isn't so.
 
These CSD waterfall plots show that the HD650's drivers are plenty quick.
 

 
 
 
 
The decision to go ahead and get these was made shortly after the recent Austin meet when I heard them being driven by a Bottlehead Crack.   As fine an amp as the Crack is, what ultimately I have in mind is a balanced solid state arrangement.
 
Up until now the source for my home rig has been a quite good but sort of old-school disc player.  I really want to go ahead and move to a PC based source so that I'll have instant access to my entire media library.  I have a neat little netbook that I have dedicated for the task of a music server but I'll need a good DAC to go ahead and make the transition.   I figure while I'm at it I may as well follow through with my solid state amp plan at the same time.
       What I'm looking at is a Audio-gd NFB-28. It has pretty much every thing I am wanting all in one unit.  An ES9018 DAC chip, fully balanced solid state headphone amp, it can pull pre-amp duty at the same time, and has a nice remote as an option, but comes with a cheap one.  I'd spend the $50 for the upgrade remote.  Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

 
I found the 1704 chip in my dac works best with every headphone I have.  A remote is a no brainer for future pre-amp duties...we are nearing the space age, not stone age.
 
The HD650 has excellent inert cup properties - that is all that might tell me, if anything at all.
 

No, the best Schiit for the HD650 is the Mjolnir.

Does anyone own the MJ alongside the BH Crack? It's hard to fathom another amp providing any benefit over the MJ in driving the HD650. It's beyond the HD650's ceiling IMO.

 
The circuit design of the MJ is about as good as it gets.  They compare this to the Bryston often - but the Bryston circuit is very ordinary.  Have not heard either,  If I had to pick by circuit design alone, I'd go with the MJ - no brainer. 
 
Yes it is already well beyond the capabilities of the HD650 - any good solid state amp will be beyond as well.  The crack works better for the HD650 because tubes are slower than solid state.  The speed of the HD650 synchronises better with the speed of tubes.
 

   
The HD650 isn't that versatile IMO. Sure it sounds good with most types of music but it always imparts its distinctive sonic signature regardless of what you're listening to. It's like the LCD-2 in that sense. Coloured, but in a pleasing way.

 
The HD650 is very neutral...you need to keep up with the pro-audio scene.
 
All well designed amps are neutral - this cannot be argued, whether it is perceived as warm or bright is a whole different issue.  A neutral headphone would sound very similar when plugged to any well design amp.  The same with DACs - any reasonable one is neutral, and a neutral amp will not show exaggerated differences to dacs.
 
If a headphone sounds almost the same out of good amps - it is doing its job - telling the truth that they all are neutral.  Hard to match headphones is a clear indication of significant stray from neutral. 
 
This should be obvious and I am not sure why it is not.

 

[pdrm360]

  I have owned the crack before. Another build is in progress with several upgrades that will be my final amp for the 650. 

 
I'm not sure! 

 

[BobG55]

  I have owned the crack before. Another build is in progress with several upgrades that will be my final amp for the 650. 

You'll have to post some pics along with a review once it's completed.  That way some of us can then proceed to deplete our wallets even more. 

 

[jimmers]

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
The crack works better for the HD650 because tubes are slower than solid state.  The speed of the HD650 synchronises better with the speed of tubes.
 

Very interesting, would you care to expand? (Or would that have to be in Sound Science?)

 

[SP Wild]

  Very interesting, would you care to expand? (Or would that have to be in Sound Science?)

 Sure, the crack is good also because it is OTL it loves the HD650s impedance and can open them up by not under powering...even my Xcans do not pump enough power to my HD650s if I wanna go reference volume, neither did my Lehman black cube amp...on my reference amplifier - there is no problem with raising the HD650 to reference levels.
 
Solid state amps are more crystaline with its transient edges like a ride cymbals attack...the HD650 is not as quick as the current crop of more expensive headphones - especially in the upper mids and treble...when asked to track the solid state transient edges and ambient signals....it starts to introduce grain, where there should be ambience, grain in the cymbals when it should be sharp and smooth.
 
A tube amps transient attack is softer - everyone knows this...the HD650s treble can track that softened edge and cymbals start to sound more like cymbals again - a smoother top end with less grain is a de-veiled HD650.  A bright solid state makes the HD650 worse...tubes work best IMO.

 

[JacobLee89]

 
Solid state amps are more crystaline with its transient edges like a ride cymbals attack...the HD650 is not as quick as the current crop of more expensive headphones - especially in the upper mids and treble...when asked to track the solid state transient edges and ambient signals....it starts to introduce grain, where there should be ambience, grain in the cymbals when it should be sharp and smooth.
 
A tube amps transient attack is softer - everyone knows this...the HD650s treble can track that softened edge and cymbals start to sound more like cymbals again - a smoother top end with less grain is a de-veiled HD650.  A bright solid state makes the HD650 worse...tubes work best IMO.

I was wondering for a while, why some people do not like the O2 + ODAC with the HD650. Whilst I have have that as the current setup, it does give me a good target to save up for a crack and uber bifrost gen 2 

 
On that note, Does anyone have a "preferred DAC" for the HD650?

 

[James-uk]

 Sure, the crack is good also because it is OTL it loves the HD650s impedance and can open them up by not under powering...even my Xcans do not pump enough power to my HD650s if I wanna go reference volume, neither did my Lehman black cube amp...on my reference amplifier - there is no problem with raising the HD650 to reference levels.

Solid state amps are more crystaline with its transient edges like a ride cymbals attack...the HD650 is not as quick as the current crop of more expensive headphones - especially in the upper mids and treble...when asked to track the solid state transient edges and ambient signals....it starts to introduce grain, where there should be ambience, grain in the cymbals when it should be sharp and smooth.

A tube amps transient attack is softer - everyone knows this...the HD650s treble can track that softened edge and cymbals start to sound more like cymbals again - a smoother top end with less grain is a de-veiled HD650.  A bright solid state makes the HD650 worse...tubes work best IMO.

The HD650 are a very clean 'fast' headphone . Can you provide any facts to back up these claims about the 650 not being quick enough for a solid state amp?

 

[SP Wild]

Nope

 

[cswann1]

   
On that note, Does anyone have a "preferred DAC" for the HD650?

 
Just get one that has the features and input/outputs you need.  The difference in the sound of DACs is too small to worry about.  Heck if it comes down to it just get the one the looks best with your other gear.

 

[JamieMcC]

   
Just get one that has the features and input/outputs you need.  The difference in the sound of DACs is too small to worry about.  Heck if it comes down to it just get the one the looks best with your other gear.

 
This is a bit like saying there is no difference between lossless and compressed mp3 we can all recognise the songs and the music sounds similar but compressed mp3 just doesn't convey the finer details of timbre. The better quality of dac the better the retrieval and the more accurate *natural* the presentation of instruments and voices.

 

[connieflyer]

I agree, I have an asus zonar essence stx sound card and bought a Project ember amp, and that was a great upgrade.  I just bought a Dragonfly V.2 dac to compare against the asus sound card and was astounded at how much better the sound card was.  The high's were much more defined and the mid range had more detail.  So I sent the dac back for a refund.  I would imagine that scaling up the dac would bring some benefits but not willing to spend the price of the 650's to get a dac that is substantially better.  

 

[SP Wild]

   
Just get one that has the features and input/outputs you need.  The difference in the sound of DACs is too small to worry about.  Heck if it comes down to it just get the one the looks best with your other gear.

 
It depends though if one wants to consider the possibility of upgrading to higher end headphones - I am a huge fan of the HD650 which is why I post here and try to help, but obviously they have been superceded in the last few years and there is always a likelyhood upgraditis will bite - in which case the amp/dac you linked to being balanced might be perfect.  Otherwise I think having a tube in the chain works well for cheaper dacs as well.

 

[joebobbilly]

   
Just get one that has the features and input/outputs you need.  The difference in the sound of DACs is too small to worry about.  Heck if it comes down to it just get the one the looks best with your other gear.

Sorry, but how small is small? Which DACs have you tried and are making reference to?
 
In my experience a DAC really can sound quite different... (is it worth the price jump? is it like night and day? well again this is Head-Fi, YMMV, IMHO.... blah blah... etc.) But having heard the E09K fed by E17 vs. Bifrost vs. Gungnir... the difference is definitely not small and can be heard. If the difference can be heard... then for some, it might just be enough to worry about.

 

[pdrm360]

  I was wondering for a while, why some people do not like the O2 + ODAC with the HD650. Whilst I have have that as the current setup, it does give me a good target to save up for a crack and uber bifrost gen 2 

 
On that note, Does anyone have a "preferred DAC" for the HD650?

 
They don't like the O2 + ODAC in compare to some other DAC/amps that they pairs better with the HD650. 

 
 
IMO, the HD650s are not very DAC picky in compare to more detailed cans (e.g. HD800 or T1).

 

[SP Wild]

I dunno, my source first philosophy was established when I owned the HD650 and reinforced when I upgraded.
 
There still is somewhat of a substantial (in headphone terms) noticeable increase in soundstage and separation when I went balanced - even though I didn't notice any speeding up of the drivers.
 
The thing is, when you start spending that much on the HD650, which I had to because there was no alternative prior to Audeze, you might as well get a better headphone.