[gsferrari]

I am curious about the American education system. I have met a lot of people who send their kids to school. Yet I have also seen people who teach their kids at home.

I would like your opinions on the following points :-

1. Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
2. What mode of education did YOU go through
3. What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
4. What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
5. What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
6. Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
7. What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
8. What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
9. Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose

This information *may* be used by my mum in India for her studies in child psychology and education systems across the world. I am just doing what I can to give her material.

And as always - please dont argue. State your opinions pointwise and exit the thread. I would request no more than ONE POST PER MEMBER here and no debates and arguments.

Please understand...your input is valuable no matter WHAT your opinion is. I will leave the "interpretation" to my mum

Cheers!

 

[Stephonovich]

I may not be a parent yet, but I am a highschooler currently being homeschooled, so I'm sort of qualified. Take it as you will

Advantages to homeschooling that I see are 1 on 1 instruction, as well as being able to tailor the material more to your kids' needs. Also is the lack of possibly bad influences that may be present in a public school.

Disadvantages are not seeing friends as often as you'd like, and having to jump through a few more hoops for some colleges and scholarship applications. Also, of course, things like chemistry, physics, and other such 'advanced' courses are usually better taught with a full lab and someone with a degree in the subject.

Hope she gets something out of this...

EDIT: Hempcamp mentioned something I forgot; exposure to other cultures. I definitely agree that being confined to just one belief/background/etc. is a bad thing. I remember being shocked how different other people were a few years ago, when I actually started being friends with people outside of homeschool group, church, and the like. I feel that my horizons have been broadened since I've done so.

(-:Stephonovich

 

[hempcamp]

[*] Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
--Public School
[*] What mode of education did YOU go through
--Public School
[*] What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
--Exposure to the real world -- not confined to the beliefs of one's own church/family/friends/etc, placed in situations with people of all different backgrounds.
[*] What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
--Large class sizes, wasted resources (due to hyper-localized control), underfunded facilities and faculty
[*] What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
--The curriculum should be loosened to allow more individualized
intellectual exploration, while at the same time increasing the opportunities to collaborate on projects. Standards should be increased.
[*] Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
--Depends on where you are. In the school where I work (low-income, urban/rural mix), things are improved since I attended the same school 10 years ago. Meanwhile, rich suburban schools around us have had more drug and sex problems than ever.
[*] What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
No Child Left Behind -- higher standards
[*] What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
No Child Left Behind -- underfunded, unrealistic goals for increasing those standards
Property-tax-based funding -- rich districts get better teachers and facilities than poor ones
[*] Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose
--No, which is why local control is good (state or county-based). However, too much local control duplicates exponentially the administrative costs of running a school district (township, district, city based).[/list]

 

[tommyatkins]

Sorry, I stole Hempcamp's formats. Everytime education comes up I tend to agree with him almost spot on.

[*] Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
--Public School
[*] What mode of education did YOU go through
--Public School
[*] What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
-That it is public, and exposes people to others with different beliefs.
[*] What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
-That the diversity of exposure is limited depending on geographical area (i.e. exposes people to others with different beliefs, but there is still a tremendous deal of tracking and economic stratification). Large class sizes, wasted resources (due to hyper-localized control), underfunded facilities and faculty. Public schools should expand their role and becomre more like community centers. It doesn't need to open the doors at 8, lock them at 3. (which differes for different schools, but many are this way).
[*] What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
-The curriculum should be loosened to allow more individualized
intellectual exploration, while at the same time increasing the opportunities to collaborate on projects. De-emphasis on testing and quantitative evaluation. Evaluation should be based more on portfolio and demonstration of knowledge, critical thinking and strong habits of mind. The educational system should be examined and critiqued in public schools.
[*] Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
-Depends on where you are and what you consider a problem. In many schools, I would not say that these hinder learning or personal growth of students in any significant way.
[*] What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
Acknowledging that there are a number of deficiencies in the current school system.
[*] What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
No Child Left Behind -- underfunded, unrealistic goals and methods.
Testing and evaluation. - this leaves children behind. Testing is not teaching.
Property-tax-based funding -- rich districts get better teachers and facilities than poor ones.
[*] Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose
I do not, education, and the direction of education should be directed by those removed from direct elections, to buffer changes in policy. Teachers should be involved at the state and district level. Schools should tie into their communities and be responsive to those needs - which change less than shifts in governement. However, communities should not have direct control.

 

[purk]

I would like your opinions on the following points :-

-Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids?
Definitely a public school. Home schooling won't get you any where. You definitly can get by with easy course, but maths, sciences, and other advanced materials are better of in school.

-What mode of education did YOU go through
I went through both public and private school. I went to college and get my advance (master's degree) in Civil Engineering.

-What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
Being international student, the american school system is definitely better and provide more opportunities for kids. I was a horrible math student back in Bangkok, but I got A++ in highschool thanks to a better continuous material coverage and attention to details of my instructor.

-What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
I believe every kid will better off wearing uniform. Brand names items cloths often differentiate the rich to the poor and that lead to social problem in the future.

-What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
Self awareness can be good. Apply your thought into the situation b/f doing it. No drug.

-Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
Every school in the world faces this problem. It is quite common.

 

[SunByrne]

Are we talking about only K-12 here or college/grad school as well? It matters. I'm going to assume just K-12.

[1] Better for *my* kids? Public school, but we were careful about choosing where to live to make sure this ended up being the better choice. I have a very, very hard time believing homeschooling would be better, but all the data I've seen so far say it's a wash, which surprises me.

[2] I went through a public school system, but a very highly-rated one. Most of my high school teachers, for instance, had graduate degrees in their subject area, not in education.

[3] What I like about the U.S. system (again, only K-12): the notion that it is in the public's interest and therefore responsibility that everyone receive an education. Diversity is not necessarily a result of this system, though, there were exactly zero black people in my suburban high school graduating class.

[4] The thing I most dislike about the U.S. system is the funding model. The tie to local property tax tends to inflate opportunity for those already growing up well-off, and hurts most those who need the most help. The other thing I dislike is the low pay and social status for educators.

[5] I have a specific perspective on what should be changed to better prepare kids for college, being a professor at a highly selective university. All the kids who get in here are smart, but some of them have truly hideous writing skills, and it's clear they got away with it because they were never required to write well. My 11th grade English teacher would butcher half these kids, just like she did me. Not enough focus on clarity and organization in writing, which is important for engineers and English majors alike.

[6] I don't have enough information to have an informed opinion on trends in sex/drugs/alcohol/tobacco these days.

[7] GOOD government policies? The whole notion that public education is an important issue that might swing elections is good. The fact that vouchers have not become widespread gives me hope as well.

[8] BAD policies. See #4. Also, the notions that problems can be fixed by issuing edicts with teeth but no money (e.g. "No Child Left Behind"), or money but no teeth (various proposals from the other party) are wholly ludicrous. Idealogues of both parties who know nothing about education (and having had some education does not automatically qualify one as knowing something here, contrary to popular belief) but spout off about it for their own political gain, rather than actually trying to address problems, are also BAD. Zero tolerance (meaning zero judgment, meaning zero intelligence applied) policies are also bad. Current trend of increasing ratio of administrators to teachers is also bad.

[9] Of course it _shouldn't_ suffer, but it's hard to see how it wouldn't. As pointed out, the extant model of local control does at least mitigate the damage done by political changes at higher levels. I'm not sure what other structural changes might help.

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunByrne [2] I went through a public school system, but a very highly-rated one. Most of my high school teachers, for instance, had graduate degrees in their subject area, not in education.

I agree, it is very important for those educating our youth to be well educated in the subjects they teach. I recall one of my math teachers in high school. He put a question on the final that he had to ask me how to solve. While it made me feel pretty smart, it's rather sad to know he couldn't solve the problem himself.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SunByrne [4] The thing I most dislike about the U.S. system is the funding model. The tie to local property tax tends to inflate opportunity for those already growing up well-off, and hurts most those who need the most help. The other thing I dislike is the low pay and social status for educators.

Here's another thing we should really look at more closely. If being an educator means you will have low social status and low pay you will automatically elliminate a large number of people who would make very good educators. I love to teach, and have been told many times that I'm very good at it. The IQ test that I recently took even made mention of my ability to relate my ideas to others. The problem is I would never consider teaching for the above reason. I have higher aspirations in life. I want to make a six figure salary, and I want to achieve a high level of social status. I know I'm not alone here. I've known many other people who would make wonderful educators but wouldn't consider it for the very same reasons.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SunByrne [8] BAD policies. See #4. Zero tolerance (meaning zero judgment, meaning zero intelligence applied) policies are also bad.

Unfortunately, this is the moniker of our public education system... nobody thinks, they simply follow BAD policy.

 

[taylor]

Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
Public School
What mode of education did YOU go through
Public school
What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
It's a chance for kids to meet new people. Not constrained to parents' beleifs.
What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
A system that is based far more on knowledge than wisdom. They drill useless information into you but teach you very little useful information.
What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
More emphasis on stuff that will be useful to them after graduating, not useless history lessons and grammar lessons and whatnot.
Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
Of course. I can't walk into the bathrooms at my school without smelling cigarettes. But it's not as widespread as some would think. there will always be drugs/sex/alcohol in a teens experience, it's the need to be independant and the thrill of doing something wrong.
What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
Some are, but nothing in particular.
What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
The idea that trying your best is good enough. The emphasis on doing good on standardized tests. No emphasis on having useufl real world knowledge. The whole "Physical Education" program. The stupid jocks who think that being able to throw a ball will get them anywhere in life. Yeah, I just had PE today. i'm sick of seeing smart people not being able to play sports and being ridiculed by the people who can, even though the people who can will most likeily be bagging the smart persons groceries in ten years.
Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose
Not sure I understand this question.

 

[gsferrari]

thhump!

 

[plainsong]

[*] Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
-- Public school
[*] What mode of education did YOU go through
-- Private and Public school
[*] What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
-- It is the first taste of the real world. You are exposed to people not like yourself. And you are exposed to the good and the bad in other people and are forced to find ways of dealing with it.
[*] What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
--If you want to competitive in the world, you more language ability than just English and three years of a foreign language. Languages need to be started earlier than just high school. The state of the arts in public schools are also shameful. Whenever there are budget cuts, it's always the arts that are the first to go.

Also, teaching is a noble profession, but at their current rate of pay, you're more likely to encounter the bad ones than the good ones. Class size is also a problem, as well as the ethic of teaching to the lowest common demoninator. The not-so-smart kids still feel confused while the smarter kids miss out in life. It's not a class division to have different classes geared to different needs.
[*] What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
--I was amazed in college to find how many of my friends did not know how to write a term paper and properly site it. Also, I do wish we had had the possibility to learn more.
[*] Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
--Of course! And as long as puberty is around, won't they always be?
[*] What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
--Not sure, I haven't been to the US for about 5 years now.
[*] What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
--The legalized segregation that goes in on in the state I'm from. The poorer predominately black schools get outdated textbooks while the rich white schools in next county over get the best of everything.
[*] Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose
--Tough to say as I've not been home in a while.

 

[Oddball]

1. Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids
   Probably public school, but this is a long way away. I do feel a bit jealous of some of my old middle school friends who now attend highly-selective (and expensive) boarding schools. However, I think a good school district is fine. But for college, I'm going to go private.
2. What mode of education did YOU go through
   Public and private school, mostly public.
3. What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling)
   I like that there are many opportunities to find what you like to do (extracirriculars). I like that students are given progressively more freedom. However, any praise that I have doesn't always apply to all schools. At my HS, the guidance counselors are really nice people and truly want to make your life better. I also like the lack of corporal punishment and humiliation by teachers (in most cases)..
4. What do you DISLIKE about the american school system
   Especially with the US system, there is an overwhelming focus on athletics. I was on a science research team and when we win trophies, they either disappear into a school closet or they're stuffed into a library bookshelf where they break as people mess with them. If it's an athletics trophy, it's honored and revered and put at the front of the school.
   
   I also really dislike standardized testing. Honestly, the standards are so low for them, it's ridiculous. As a HS student, I resent having my time taken away to take an idiotic test that any smart 6th grade student could complete.
   
   I also think teachers should be paid more. They work so hard, need a college education, and have to deal with annoying brats daily.
5. What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general
   If you've ever watched a cliched American teen flick, you know that there are cliques of kids (jocks, preps, goths, skaters, etc.). I think more should be done to expose students to others beyond their little groups, or comfort zones. I go to a very white school now, much different from my rather black middle school (speaking in huge generalizations here) and I find that my experiences in both schools has made me a better program. Racial integration (a la Brown v. Board of Education) is essential. Some students I know have yet to realize that there's a big bad scary world out there.
6. Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent
   Yes. It's everywhere.
7. What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time
   Free and reduced lunch. The policy of not physically abusing studnets (aside from gym class...heh)
8. What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed
   Zero-tolerance. A kid swung a punch at one of my classmates and my classmate holds up a hand to block it and they both get in trouble. However, if my classmate let the other kid pummel him, only the attack would get in trouble. However he "engaged" in the fight.
   
   Racial and economic segregation.
9. Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose
   Uh, no. We should take some of the military budget to spend on education. Young people are the most important resource and the US cannot afford to fall behind. Remember Eisenhower's Defense of Education plan where he poured money into math and science training for students? I think we still need that. Many scientists nowadays (my dad is in science) are overwhelmingly immigrants. If the US immigration dwindles, the brain power in the US will as well.

 

[ls20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids Mode? as in pubic vs private? Public... What mode of education did YOU go through Public What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling) accessibility... open communication (student-teacher, parent-school)... babies kids along... What do you DISLIKE about the american school system at the expensive of quality and standards. TOO easy What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general almost everything! start from the ground up with -Supportive faculty and MOTIVATED teachers. people first--worry about equipment and facility later Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent absolutely not--tho it may vary geographically... not a concern at during my NorCal k-12 schooling What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose This information *may* be used by my mum in India for her studies in child psychology and education systems across the world. I am just doing what I can to give her material. And as always - please dont argue. State your opinions pointwise and exit the thread. I would request no more than ONE POST PER MEMBER here and no debates and arguments. Please understand...your input is valuable no matter WHAT your opinion is. I will leave the "interpretation" to my mum Cheers!

 

[EyeAmEye]

Under optimal conditions, public schooling has many more advantages over home schooling, biggest being the social interaction, which I believe is very important for child developement.
That said, public schooling is not being operated anywhere near optimal conditions, escpecially here in NY. There is a major shortage of truly qualified teachers, and ALL teachers are grossly underpaid, schools in general are underfunded, and for the most part there are too many students per class. Add to that the utter lack of security, and you have way too many schools were only violence occurs and very little education is taking place. If I were a parent at this time, I don't think I could send my child to public school until I felt that vast improvements to the current state of public education had occured.
Working at a college I see firsthand how many students on the college level have not had proper education. They enter "schools of higher learning" with a lack of the most perfunctory education in simple mathematics and brutal language skills. Most students' writing skills are well below their alleged education level. I have to believe it comes down to the failure of public schools to prepare them for college level education. So certainly at this point, I think it is better to trade off the potential social advantages of public school, and try to expose your children to as many social interactions after school/weekends etc, and give them a better home school education.

 

[TheMuffinMan_01]

kids need to learn to interact with people. they need to make friends and such in order to be successfull. they need more than one people to help them and guide them. they also need small classes. private school it is!

 

[plainsong]

Oddball, you remind me of my high school days like no other post yet! Especially the bit about extra cirricullar stuff. Schools here don't have anything like it all, and I think it's a failing of the schools here.

And those basic tests - p-lease! "See Jane run." What was Jane doing? A) running, b) swimming, c) standing, d)all of the above, e) don't know. I always wondered who actually had to take those exit exam retests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oddball Which mode do YOU think is better for your kids Probably public school, but this is a long way away. I do feel a bit jealous of some of my old middle school friends who now attend highly-selective (and expensive) boarding schools. However, I think a good school district is fine. But for college, I'm going to go private. What mode of education did YOU go through Public and private school, mostly public. What do you LIKE about the american school system (only schooling) I like that there are many opportunities to find what you like to do (extracirriculars). I like that students are given progressively more freedom. However, any praise that I have doesn't always apply to all schools. At my HS, the guidance counselors are really nice people and truly want to make your life better. I also like the lack of corporal punishment and humiliation by teachers (in most cases).. What do you DISLIKE about the american school system Especially with the US system, there is an overwhelming focus on athletics. I was on a science research team and when we win trophies, they either disappear into a school closet or they're stuffed into a library bookshelf where they break as people mess with them. If it's an athletics trophy, it's honored and revered and put at the front of the school. I also really dislike standardized testing. Honestly, the standards are so low for them, it's ridiculous. As a HS student, I resent having my time taken away to take an idiotic test that any smart 6th grade student could complete. I also think teachers should be paid more. They work so hard, need a college education, and have to deal with annoying brats daily. What do you suggest can be CHANGED to better prepare the youngsters to deal with higher education and life in general If you've ever watched a cliched American teen flick, you know that there are cliques of kids (jocks, preps, goths, skaters, etc.). I think more should be done to expose students to others beyond their little groups, or comfort zones. I go to a very white school now, much different from my rather black middle school (speaking in huge generalizations here) and I find that my experiences in both schools has made me a better program. Racial integration (a la Brown v. Board of Education) is essential. Some students I know have yet to realize that there's a big bad scary world out there. Do you think sex and drugs/alcohol/tobacco problems are still prevalent Yes. It's everywhere. What government policies do you think are GOOD at this point of time Free and reduced lunch. The policy of not physically abusing studnets (aside from gym class...heh) What government policies do you think are BAD and need to be changed Zero-tolerance. A kid swung a punch at one of my classmates and my classmate holds up a hand to block it and they both get in trouble. However, if my classmate let the other kid pummel him, only the attack would get in trouble. However he "engaged" in the fight. Racial and economic segregation. Do you think education should suffer as a result of a change in government? If not - then what do you propose Uh, no. We should take some of the military budget to spend on education. Young people are the most important resource and the US cannot afford to fall behind. Remember Eisenhower's Defense of Education plan where he poured money into math and science training for students? I think we still need that. Many scientists nowadays (my dad is in science) are overwhelmingly immigrants. If the US immigration dwindles, the brain power in the US will as well.