What! Massive clipping with iPod's EQ.

[mavis]

hmm ... I hope someone can help me with this ...

I just received a new CD in the mail today, it's an Aphex Twin singles collection. One of the songs is called "Ventolin [Deep Gong Mix]" and as the name implies, there is a *VERY* deep "gong" or whatever - a very low frequency beat/bass line. I analyzed the .wav and this beat is peaking at about 48Hz - very low indeed.

I ripped the whole CD using EAC+LAME (--apx) and then used MP3Gain to adjust each song to 89.0db, as I always do. Then I transfered to my iPod, and what I heard when I played it back almost made me sick. Basically, it's unlistenable.

Using low impedance phones, the iPod rolls off low frequencies - this is a problem for me because both my E5c and ATH-A900 are low impedance cans. So, I tried using the "Bass Booster" EQ setting in an attempt to 'recover' some of that missing LF bass. It can't be done. Even with the MP3 normalized to 89.0db, the clipping is absolutely TERRIBLE. Not to be deterred, I tried using iTunes to lower the volume for that one song, to about 60% - that's 60% of an already low 89db! Even with that setting, none of the bass enhancing EQ presets on the iPod are usable - terrible clipping on all of them (Latin, Classical, Bass Booster, etc) ...

So now I'm stuck. I now have an iPod that can't play my music, and I'm kinda pissed about it. Does anyone have any suggestions, other than the obvious (eg, 'get a better MP3 player,' etc) ... ?

 

[bartholomew]

get a better mp3 player

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavis Using low impedance phones, the iPod rolls off low frequencies - this is a problem for me because both my E5c and ATH-A900 are low impedance cans. So, I tried using the "Bass Booster" EQ setting in an attempt to 'recover' some of that missing LF bass. It can't be done. Even with the MP3 normalized to 89.0db, the clipping is absolutely TERRIBLE. Not to be deterred, I tried using iTunes to lower the volume for that one song, to about 60% - that's 60% of an already low 89db! Even with that setting, none of the bass enhancing EQ presets on the iPod are usable - terrible clipping on all of them (Latin, Classical, Bass Booster, etc) ...

Unfortunately, almost EVERY SINGLE RECENT PORTABLE PLAYER, regardless of type, brand or model, suffers the same problem - rolled off bass with low-impedance headphones and serious clipping with any bass boost turned on at all whatsoever.

 

[mavis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver Unfortunately, almost EVERY SINGLE RECENT PORTABLE PLAYER, regardless of type, brand or model, suffers the same problem - rolled off bass with low-impedance headphones and serious clipping with any bass boost turned on at all whatsoever.

So, in your opinion, the only possible way to get decent bass is to use an amp? And the only possible way to get any kind of decent bass boost is to use an amp with a built-in bass boost?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavis So, in your opinion, the only possible way to get decent bass is to use an amp? And the only possible way to get any kind of decent bass boost is to use an amp with a built-in bass boost?

Basically, yes.

 

[mavis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver Basically, yes.

Well that's just *****ed up. I mean, seriously. We're talking about a track that has been reduced to 60% of 89.0db - there's PLENTY of headroom there, and it isn't like the Bass Boost setting on the iPod is doing +10db at 20Hz - even if it were, there's PLENTY OF ROOM for it. I just don't understand what the problem is ...

 

[jpr703]

It sucks, but I don't think you can get around using an amp. I have my iPod teamed up with a Gilmore Lite and there's plenty of bass with the EQ turned off.

 

[bangraman]

Eagle_Driver is incorrect to make such a generalisation. I won't say "get a better MP3 player" since you have the best already. However I will say "get a different MP3 player which puts out more bass". Clearly this bass thing is worrying you more than it does me (on many players I engage bass reduction).


I suggest the iAudio M3 to start with. Easily available in Japan in a wider variety of hues than anywhere but Korea. No main display, some tag read problems (which may have been fixed?) and nowhere near the build quality of the NW-HD3, but the battery life is OK, it's the same size as the equivalent iPod and the remote's not too bad. Usability is fair, especially when used with something like j.River Media Center.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver Unfortunately, almost EVERY SINGLE RECENT PORTABLE PLAYER, regardless of type, brand or model, suffers the same problem - rolled off bass with low-impedance headphones and serious clipping with any bass boost turned on at all whatsoever.

Yep, my Zen Micro definitely clips a bit if i bump the lower frequencies up to much and i play a bass heavy song.

 

[bangraman]

The Zen Micro is not a basshead's choice either.

 

[TWIFOSP]

I don't the the problem is neccesarily with the DAC in the iPod.

Are you using an amp?

I just threw on a bass heavy low frequency track on my 4g iPod. It's lossless, so that might change the equation, but I digress. The track is The Great Below on The Fragile. There is a transistion in the middle that hits very low and very impacted.

I also have Shure E5C, so it's a decent comparison.

Straight out of the headphone jack with EQ set to OFF:
Meh, bass is there, but rolled off.
Straight out of headphone jack with EQ set to Bass Boost:
Bleh, muddy, distorted and bleh. Bass impact is increased, but seriously... bleh.
Line out with Amp and EQ set to OFF: Welcome back bass! Sounds full, deep, and all the way down to the bottom. Not the greatest impact in the world, but definetly awesome considering it's coming from these tiny ear phones. Highs are still present, mids are lush, bass is deep.
Line out with Amp and EQ set to Eletronic: Same as above, but with better highs. My favorite setting for this (and most) types of music on the iPod.

So in conclusion, I would say the problem is not with the Equilizer & Digital Audio Conversion on the ipod, but with it's [the headphone jack] inability to really push the frequencies all the way out. An amp cleans this up quite nicely. For reference, I'm only using an older gen TAH, so I imagine, it'd be even better with a SM or SR71.

Or it could be your rip. Have you played this rip off of another device or computer with decent sound card? If so, is it the same problem? Part of MP3 encoding recessess the low frequencies on purpose because they mask the highs. You get more range with less bits that way.

Anyway, I don't think it's the iPod, but now I'm gonna have to go buy that CD because 1. I'm curious, and 2. I like aphex twin

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman The Zen Micro is not a basshead's choice either.

It's definitely not. Upon comparing my sister's 4G Ipod and my Micro, her Ipod has more mid-bass response...however, that may also be because it has a healthy 30mW output compared to Micro's 5-7 (?) output.

 

[The Smokester]

I had the same problem of low bass with the ER-4P's driven by the Zen Touch. Boosting the bass with the equalizer just causeed distortion. Got a Total Airhead (TAH) amp for Xmas and it strengthened and evened out the bass without resorting to equalization.

From what I hear the SR-71 is even better than the TAH (for twice the price, of course) so I think I will try that next.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco It's definitely not. Upon comparing my sister's 4G Ipod and my Micro, her Ipod has more mid-bass response...however, that may also be because it has a healthy 30mW output compared to Micro's 5-7 (?) output.

That would apply to the 7506, but not to the E5c or other efficient phones. The Zen Micro just doesn't do huge lows, even with efficient phones. Whether this is due to the EQ tuning or just due to lack of power I have no idea.


Whatever bass that mavis is getting unequalised out of the headphone socket of the iPod is pretty much the most bass you will get out without distortion or resorting to amps with bass colour or bass boost / low-end 'boom boom' phones.

 

[TWIFOSP]

I think the bottom line here is that you can't expect a portable device which wasn't designed to support hi end headphones to produce desire results. The iPod just wasn't designed to drive E5C or ER4S. Granted, the 4g is the little portable that could and puts out ~80mw with its headphone jack. That ain't bad for a portable. E5C are actually quite decent out of the headphone jack. But they are so much better when amped.

Not sure why this thread is focusing on the iPod or the unit itself. You wouldn't expect your home CD player to sound good straight out of the jack, an amp is neccesary there. No difference with high end cans on the go.

Amps and the quality of your digital file will have far more to do with your sound and bass impact than the portable unit.