What is your volume set to in Foobar?

[c0mfortably_numb]

I've been a bit curious lately about bit-perfect performance, and wonder if the volume control in Foobar affects the ability to be "bit-perfect"? In Foobar I can not go above -4.34 with the volume slider or I start clipping, which is also confirmed in the EMU0404 patch panel. When the volume gets raised higher towards 0 the volume starts peaking in the red zone.

I'm using the latest Foobar 0.9.4.2 with no DSP's, going Toslink out to an Entech Number Cruncher, and an EMU0404 with the latest drivers.

 

[Magsy]

-2db here with my 0404, I seem to be able to get away with no attenuation in Winamp though..

IMO poor music, if you play anything well mastered you can run 0db but any popular cd will clip like mad :/

Can you hear clipping? It will hit the red but not clip on my rig but for sure, the stuff that is in the red all the time clips!

Only 0db is bit perfect.

 

[c0mfortably_numb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magsy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you hear clipping? It will hit the red but not clip on my rig but for sure, the stuff that is in the red all the time clips!

I definitely here a degradation in sound when the peak meter is in red, and have assumed it to be clipping. My hearing lately is super sensitive, I don't know if that is a good thing or bad....

 

[Xakepa]

For a bit-perfect you should stay at 0dB.

However, I don't find a percievable degradation of the SQ when lowering the volume from FB. As/when I'm doing EQ, I usualy lower input at -6dB and keep the output at about -3 to -1. I prefer + - as global hotkeys for volume control

 

[ShadowVlican]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xakepa /img/forum/go_quote.gif For a bit-perfect you should stay at 0dB.

what he said

 

[skudmunky]

I replay-gain'd all my music so I usually have 0 in foobar. Works well enough for me.

 

[c0mfortably_numb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skudmunky /img/forum/go_quote.gif I replay-gain'd all my music so I usually have 0 in foobar. Works well enough for me.

Thanks for that suggestion, I forgot all about replay gain. I just applied it to a few albums, and it seems to helps a great deal.

With replay gain does that permanently stay on an MP3/FLAC file say if I burn it to a disc?

 

[Slogra]

Of course when you use replaygain you won't get bitperfect output, because the volume is lowered. To make up with the volume loss (=dynamic range loss), i use 24bit output.

Quote:

With replay gain does that permanently stay on an MP3/FLAC file say if I burn it to a disc?

Replaygain comes in 2 forms:

1. Replaygain as a tag
2. Replaygain where the actual volume of the file is changed

I prefer #1, because the orignal file is still in tact AND you can choose playback volume, albumgain, trackgain, peak, or turn it off anytime. It also works on any type of file, as long as it supports tags. These are all really great features IMHO.
The disadvantage is that you need a player with replaygain option like foobar2000. With foobar you can choose to use replaygain or not when burning an AudioCD (i hope that answetrs your question).
My portable mp3 player with Rockbox also supports replaygain.

The 2nd option works by actually changing the volume of the file. Not all types of files are supported but i know mp3 is supported. The mp3 files are not completely re-encoded (which would result in quality loss), but instead, only the volume data of each frame is changed, so no quality is lost and it should be even possible to undo the changes.
This will work on any mp3 player because the actual files are changed. When burning you will get your replaygained sound on your AudioCD. As far as i know there is no option to burn the original sound with orignal volume, unless you undo the changes first.
This 2nd option sucks IMHO.

http://www.replaygain.org/
http://www.rockbox.org/

 

[jmmtn4aj]

Heh, I asked this question ages ago with no replies

Anyway the patchmix clip indicator is just a warning. The AV receiver I'm using doesn't clip even with the red indicator constantly lighting up.

 

[Slogra]

BTW when you replaygain your albums you can see the peak of each track. You will see that many lossy encoded tracks peak above 1.0 which means it clips! It's not surprising to see that one of my loudest track is a Prodigy tune and it clips all ovetr the place. It's good to know that with replaygain you have an option lower the volume so the peak will be at 1.0 (or lower).
Many lossless encoded files are exactly at 1.0 which is loudest for audioCD and they are probably clipping too.

 

[Ross1]

Yup, I have noticed a lot before that if the lossless copy clips, when I encode to lossy it will clip even more.... I'm not actually sure how to get around this, I wouldn't have thought adding replaygain before you convert would help (given tags are removed when it decodes to wav, and only written back once it encodes to mp3/vorbis/whatever). Are there any suggestions as to what I should do to the lossless before I convert, my iaudio is a little upset about this problem at the moment.

 

[skitlets]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slogra /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course when you use replaygain you won't get bitperfect output, because the volume is lowered. To make up with the volume loss (=dynamic range loss), i use 24bit output. Replaygain comes in 2 forms: 1. Replaygain as a tag 2. Replaygain where the actual volume of the file is changed I prefer #1, because the orignal file is still in tact AND you can choose playback volume, albumgain, trackgain, peak, or turn it off anytime. It also works on any type of file, as long as it supports tags. These are all really great features IMHO. The disadvantage is that you need a player with replaygain option like foobar2000. With foobar you can choose to use replaygain or not when burning an AudioCD (i hope that answetrs your question). My portable mp3 player with Rockbox also supports replaygain. The 2nd option works by actually changing the volume of the file. Not all types of files are supported but i know mp3 is supported. The mp3 files are not completely re-encoded (which would result in quality loss), but instead, only the volume data of each frame is changed, so no quality is lost and it should be even possible to undo the changes. This will work on any mp3 player because the actual files are changed. When burning you will get your replaygained sound on your AudioCD. As far as i know there is no option to burn the original sound with orignal volume, unless you undo the changes first. This 2nd option sucks IMHO. http://www.replaygain.org/ http://www.rockbox.org/

With foobar 0.9.x, how do you set bit depth using ASIO? With ASIO selected, the option becomes greyed out. Using a 1212m currently.