What is the successor of the CD???

[seanwee]

Hey guys, the CD (Redbook) has been the main storage media for song albums, soundtracks and such for a long period of time.
Is the CD a dead end for audio storage or is there something that can replace it?
 
I have read up some related threads and a few plausible answers are the SACD and/or SD cards loaded with WAV files.
 
What do you guys think?

 

[Mython]

SD, microSD (and small form-factor solidstate hard drives, like mSATA & its successors, will gradually become more common), especially for portable use
 
 
For home use, it's all about wireless Network-Attached Storage (NAS-drives), which are basically a standard large (3.5") hard drive in a box that enables hooking up the entire contents to your home Wi-Fi router, so any Wi-Fi-capable device in your home (smartphone, laptop, dedicated Hi-Fi streamer device, or even a 'Smart' flatscreen TV) can have access to your entire music collection, anywhere in the household or garden.
 
 
Even the days of the 3/5" hard drive are numbered, but they're still, at this point in time, the cheapest option for multiple terrabytes of storage.
 
But within 3-5yrs they'll probably be obsolete, and it'll all be solid-state drives, of various sizes, at home, and, for portable use, the options I outlined in the first sentence.
 
 
HOWEVER.  I still keep my CDs in storage, as a back-up, even though I have ripped them all to a 2.5" portable hard drive, and transfer from that hard drive to a microSD card anytime I wish to take music on the move.

 

[Ruben123]

CDs are still good enough as most albums fit on it, it's widely used and of course any device can play it without any loss of quality.
They're probably not replaced in the next 10years.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

CDs themselves aren't likely to totally become obsolete yet, although even some non-audiophile recordings are transitioning. Dream Theater's The Astonishing is still available in CD, but online downloads are either 320kbps on Amazon, or 24/96 FLAC, no more 16/44.1 uncompressed. 

 

Still, while the CD isn't going to become obsolete, actually using them for direct playback is what's likely to go away even for audiophiles. I mean, you can use an SSD with a plastic miniPC, instead of dealing with vibrations from a CD transport (or HDD that) you offset with weight. Wadia AFAIK has stopped making tank-like CDPs and is going for music servers, despite how that is precisely what they're known for since they started. If anything, I won't be surprised if there's already a copper chassis music server out there. 

 

If anything CD the medium for selling the music will persist since digital downloads don't come with physical copies of other things that come with CDs, like posters and the cover, since that's the charm for physical collections. Look at how there's Steam, but people still preorder collector's items - like the Shogun II Total War box that came with the samurai figurine based on Lord Nobunaga's armor (see below). Labels like Nuclear Blast release albums with a lot of other stuff to go with the CD, unfortunately none of them is a $1,000 box set that comes with a signed guitar.

 

I'd have been all over this (import taxes be damned) if the figurine was Lord Masamune (the silhouette logo with the overcompensating practice long sword) or Lord Nobuharu (who appears in the opening video), complete with the fur coat that appears on woodcuts and Japanese movies/TV shows. Or if that "bamboo" box was a copy of The Art of War.

 

 

[RRod]

 

If anything CD the medium for selling the music will persist since digital downloads don't come with physical copies of other things that come with CDs, like posters and the cover, since that's the charm for physical collections. Look at how there's Steam, but people still preorder collector's items - like the Shogun II Total War box that came with the samurai figurine based on Lord Nobunaga's armor (see below). Labels like Nuclear Blast release albums with a lot of other stuff to go with the CD, unfortunately none of them is a $1,000 box set that comes with a signed guitar.

 
This is where downloads could be doing much more than they are: print-quality cover art and wallpapers, multichannel downloads, multimedia content, etc. Instead it's bare FLAC stereo mixes that you have to download with proprietary downloaders.

 

[sterling1]

I do not believe there will be a successor to the CD, unless it's another physical medium, perhaps one which is like a 120 channel  multi-channel. card. After all,  the CD can be re-sold, traded, copied, and be archived with more certain recovery than digital files. Also, although, SACD might be the defacto hi-res medium today for stereo or multi-channel, it has not been perceived as sounding better than CD by most making comparisons; and, it is still hard to get.
 
 Certainly, downloading from the iTunes Store and others like HDtracks is convenient and delivers a product which I think is indistinguishable from the CD sound; but, what do you do with the digital library when you're tired of it? Is it likely anyone would buy it? And, is it legal to sell it? Does it just go in the trash? As I understand it, folks purchasing downloads are just purchasing a right to listen to the material. I don't think I can will my iTunes library.
 
One other thing, organizing a digital library is not the easiest thing. There are so many file formats, and although by one means or another you'll be able to play all of your files you may need more than one player to do it. There's also the upsampling/downsampling thing. When recording to DAT as I sometimes do, which only accepts up to 16/48. I need to go into sounds in Windows settings and reset for 16/48 or the DAT Recorder simply does not record.
 
The bottom-line for me is I think it's best to buy the CD and rip to a players music library. Then you've got it all, for yourself and others.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRod /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

This is where downloads could be doing much more than they are: print-quality cover art and wallpapers, multichannel downloads, multimedia content, etc. Instead it's bare FLAC stereo mixes that you have to download with proprietary downloaders.

 

Yeah, I can just walk over to any printing service and have them print the poster in any size I need, but from a merchandising perspective that's a big problem if they provide digital copies. You can print it onto that paper that you iron into a shirt for example, so nobody's going to buy the shirts anymore.

 

Personally though the alternative is to offer a bundle where the merchandise can be had for less than their individual prices along with the digital download, but keep everything optional. There are some reasons why other people only want the download copies, and that's because there are people who hate the WTO and major record labels. I can order CDs from Nuclear Blast in Europe, but once it gets here, I'll deal with it feeling the effects of whatever went on at Davos or whatever further confounded by corrupt Customs agents. The one guy who managed to start cleaning it up then got implicated in a legislative fund graft scandal, but then until now (it's been over a year since he resigned from his post due to the investigation) no charges have been brought against him.

 

[sterling1]

Amazon kinda has a bundle thing, buy a CD and you get a download too. This gets you instant gratification, as well as the physical property.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Amazon kinda has a bundle thing, buy a CD and you get a download too. This gets you instant gratification, as well as the physical property.

 
For most people that works. But for those avoiding anti-WTO policies, that's a problem. This is where digital downloads have an edge over physical copies, at least until someone decides to screw around with internet distribution. 

 

[OddE]

  Amazon kinda has a bundle thing, buy a CD and you get a download too. This gets you instant gratification, as well as the physical property.

 
-This is becoming more and more common with other retailers, too - especially those sellin vinyl, as that is a format which doesn't lend itself well to portable listening.
 
Only yesterday did I buy an album from Tin Angel Records (Granted, not a behemoth like Amazon!) - and upon my payment for the vinyl copy (Hey, we all have our guilty pleasures!) clearing, I was greeted by this screen:

 
 
Just about every format there is is represented - and kudos to them for not jumping the silly-high-bitrate-or-depth bandwagon (The WAV download is trusty ol' 16/44.1)

 

[Pootis]

Uh, nothing. SACD and DVD-A failed because they were pointless.

 

[seanwee]

 

CDs themselves aren't likely to totally become obsolete yet, although even some non-audiophile recordings are transitioning. Dream Theater's The Astonishing is still available in CD, but online downloads are either 320kbps on Amazon, or 24/96 FLAC, no more 16/44.1 uncompressed. 

 

Still, while the CD isn't going to become obsolete, actually using them for direct playback is what's likely to go away even for audiophiles. I mean, you can use an SSD with a plastic miniPC, instead of dealing with vibrations from a CD transport (or HDD that) you offset with weight. Wadia AFAIK has stopped making tank-like CDPs and is going for music servers, despite how that is precisely what they're known for since they started. If anything, I won't be surprised if there's already a copper chassis music server out there. 

 

If anything CD the medium for selling the music will persist since digital downloads don't come with physical copies of other things that come with CDs, like posters and the cover, since that's the charm for physical collections. Look at how there's Steam, but people still preorder collector's items - like the Shogun II Total War box that came with the samurai figurine based on Lord Nobunaga's armor (see below). Labels like Nuclear Blast release albums with a lot of other stuff to go with the CD, unfortunately none of them is a $1,000 box set that comes with a signed guitar.

 

I'd have been all over this (import taxes be damned) if the figurine was Lord Masamune (the silhouette logo with the overcompensating practice long sword) or Lord Nobuharu (who appears in the opening video), complete with the fur coat that appears on woodcuts and Japanese movies/TV shows. Or if that "bamboo" box was a copy of The Art of War.

 

When I said successor , It wasnt audio quality improvement that was on my mind ,CD quality is already plenty good enough. I have tested it myself with an ABX plugin on foobar 2k and It has proven time and time again that i cant tell 16/44.1 and 24/192 apart. I was thinking of smaller sized but higher capacity CDs so you only need one small CD instead of having 4-5 for some albums. I would love to see a minidisk sized CD with 240 minutes of playtime.
 
And yes, I mostly buy CDs to be able to get the booklet type covers that have the lyrics ,credits and all those exotic decorations and also to keep them as a collector. Having a massive collection on a shelf will also get you the satisfaction of wowing your friends 

  I do not believe there will be a successor to the CD, unless it's another physical medium, perhaps one which is like a 120 channel  multi-channel. card. After all,  the CD can be re-sold, traded, copied, and be archived with more certain recovery than digital files. Also, although, SACD might be the defacto hi-res medium today for stereo or multi-channel, it has not been perceived as sounding better than CD by most making comparisons; and, it is still hard to get.
 
 Certainly, downloading from the iTunes Store and others like HDtracks is convenient and delivers a product which I think is indistinguishable from the CD sound; but, what do you do with the digital library when you're tired of it? Is it likely anyone would buy it? And, is it legal to sell it? Does it just go in the trash? As I understand it, folks purchasing downloads are just purchasing a right to listen to the material. I don't think I can will my iTunes library.
 
One other thing, organizing a digital library is not the easiest thing. There are so many file formats, and although by one means or another you'll be able to play all of your files you may need more than one player to do it. There's also the upsampling/downsampling thing. When recording to DAT as I sometimes do, which only accepts up to 16/48. I need to go into sounds in Windows settings and reset for 16/48 or the DAT Recorder simply does not record.
 
The bottom-line for me is I think it's best to buy the CD and rip to a players music library. Then you've got it all, for yourself and others.

Having a CD with increased capacity should also make the producers be able to cram in more content. For example, Instead of having the final mix in the CD,they can also include the instrumental version , multichannel version, binaural version and maybe even the raw and unmastered recording for people who prefer mastering it themselves. 
Now that would be my dream come true.

 

[RRod]

Having a CD with increased capacity should also make the producers be able to cram in more content. For example, Instead of having the final mix in the CD,they can also include the instrumental version , multichannel version, binaural version and maybe even the raw and unmastered recording for people who prefer mastering it themselves.  Now that would be my dream come true.

 
Blu-rays already come with stereo and surround mixes and a whole movie on them. I just bought a great opera release for like $8 new with all those fixings and the blu-ray extras, and I wonder why the heck audiophiles are supporting the whole "$40 for a new stereo remix but in HI-RESOLUTION!!!!" thing.

 

[seanwee]

But most albums are not using blu-Ray .thats the main problem. The tech is there but nobody makes the transition.

 

[gregorio]

Originally Posted by seanwee /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
For example, Instead of having the final mix in the CD,they can also include the instrumental version , multichannel version, binaural version and maybe even the raw and unmastered recording for people who prefer mastering it themselves.

 
It's not really a case of including versions that were just sitting there anyway but wouldn't fit on a standard CD. Many/all of those additional versions would have to be specifically made, which would of course cost more. Would there be enough interest in paying extra to own all those versions, for it to be worth the time/cost of creating them? Probably not. And, when you say a "raw and unmastered" version, are you talking about the unedited, un-mixed recordings or just an un-mastered version? The latter wouldn't make much sense and I can't see the artists or labels willingly releasing the former, except in a very few exceptional circumstances.
 

  I wonder why the heck audiophiles are supporting the whole "$40 for a new stereo remix but in HI-RESOLUTION!!!!" thing.

 
Because they're victims of marketing!
 
G