[AndreYew]

Kelly,

"I think that quote is a little too "no duh" to qualify as a technical pissing match. I don't think anyone would disagree with the undersampling problem. Call it what you want but the effects of that are the sounds that Nezer and I do subjectively describe."

If you understand what too few samples at 14 or 15 kHz sounds like at 44.1 kHz, and why that's obviously too little, please explain it to me. BTW, could you also tell me what instruments or recordings have significant energy at 14 kHz so I can try to reproduce this?

You can subjectively describe those effects, but when you attach hard numbers like "44.1 kHz" and "15 kHz", and technical evaluations like "too few samples" (what does that even mean?) to it, you are making a technical claim. What's wrong with saying, sounds near 14 kHz sound harsh, or they sound softer or rolled off, or whatever it is that you're hearing? Surely your ears aren't telling you, "Too few samples at 14 kHz". They're telling you something else that you've somehow associated with "too few samples at 14 kHz.", and that's something that's technically verifiable.

--Andre

 

[AndreYew]

With all due respect to Jan, Jan's analysis in his article is wrong. He uses linear interpolation rather than sinc interpolation, and draws incorrect conclusions.

--Andre

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by AndreYew With all due respect to Jan, Jan's analysis in his article is wrong. He uses linear interpolation rather than sinc interpolation, and draws incorrect conclusions. --Andre

Take it up with Jan. I'm going to request the Mods delete this side-track from the thread.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by AndreYew With all due respect to Jan, Jan's analysis in his article is wrong. He uses linear interpolation rather than sinc interpolation, and draws incorrect conclusions.

Andre
I'd really like to read your criticism of Jan's analysis but also want to see this thread go on about specific DACs and players. Would you mind starting a new thread specifically for that? Maybe we can get Jan involved too.
(Note: This is why I like the tree-format thread structure like Audio Asylum's more than this one--so branches can survive without messing up the trunk.)

 

[Duncan]

I'm not actually going to delete the content yet Nezer, because otherwise this would look very fragmented

Yes, you had the disclaimer at the head of the thread, and yes it has also gone wayward... but, i'm asking once again to keep this thread in the original context that was requested...

If this isn't the case, then I (or any other mod) will then crop THIS thread, and add the 'offending' posts to the original Upsampling DAC thread...

Now on with the Upsampling (without the techno gabble

)

 

[aos]

I'm quite satisfied with sound I get from my portable DAC which has no oversampling and not any kind of digital filtering whatsoever and almost no analog filtering either. This is out of necessity rather than wish, since it was the only way to cut down the power consumption. However, to me it sounds more natural than other DACs I have (which all oversample, almost nothing today doesn't). Especially highs sound good, that's why I'm mentioning it. Beyer DT931 which is shunned by many because it's too bright shows its potential here once highs are smooth and not shrill. With shrill highs it can really be unpleasant on many recordings, but with highs smooth even though it may be bright it does not fatigue. I'm not going to enter any technical discussion as to what's better - link posted by Joe Bloggs explains things very well - and my decisions were not based on technical merit but necessity and listening tests. Just saying that just as mentioned there, quality of other components can influence sound more than DAC. Who knows, maybe the only reason no-oversampling sounds better to me is that I used better analog line amplifier and this DAC will be blown away once I finish Guido's (which is described in the article where Blogg's link is pointing to).

 

[Nezer]

I wonder if there is some way that the 'smoothness of highs' can be quantified and graphed for all to see?

You DAC certainly looks intresting aos, but I'm afraid it's a bit more than I can chew at the moment.

 

[aos]

Heh, I tried not to make it sound as an ad 'cause it really wasn't. It makes me nervous sometimes. What I wanted is to describe is how I experienced the difference in DAC technologies, as "bare-bone" DACs are pretty rare today. And "smooth" is just a word I'm not sure I used properly here. Besides, I tried so many configurations that my sense might be overloaded and you should just ignore any subjective opinion I give...

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by aos Heh, I tried not to make it sound as an ad 'cause it really wasn't. It makes me nervous sometimes. What I wanted is to describe is how I experienced the difference in DAC technologies, as "bare-bone" DACs are pretty rare today. And "smooth" is just a word I'm not sure I used properly here. Besides, I tried so many configurations that my sense might be overloaded and you should just ignore any subjective opinion I give...

I wasn't strictly referring to your DAC above but rather *all* DACs. If there were a way to quantify what is otherwise subjective (or not subjective, I know what *I* hear) it may make it easier to compare product a to product b particularly when the two products are hard to come by.

I know you weren't trying to sell anyting above as you have stated on several occasions that it just wouldn't be cost effective for you to sell these DACs (or more appropriatly for me to buy one).

This led me to the quantification (yeah, I made it up) thought because there is no way I'll be able to hear your DAC unless you are generous and send me one. If your design did give me everything I am looking for I would start warming up the soldering iron this minute but right now I'd hate to invest all that time only to end-up buying a Wadia 27ix in the end (which I assure *everyone* there is no way in hell that's going to happen, not until they come down to around $3000).

 

[aos]

Actually I do plan on selling a few... I'll make 4-5

. That's why I feel uncomfortable discussing it, as that can be inappropriate.

As for quantifying differences, I'm sure it can be done. There have been many attempts, and everyone have their take (including me). Problem is, you'll never get everyone in the audio world to agree on one explanation. You can either educate yourself in ways of science and find your own answer or just use your ears to make a decision. That seems to work for the tube guys...