Upgrade from Basic ifi DAC & Amp Recommendations

[grml]

Hi - I'm a new member here and this is my first post. Thanks in advance for any help/recommendations.

I think I'm in an unusual place on this journey as, although I'm a professional musician of 40 years plus and have worked semi-professionally as a sound engineer in the past (so I think my ears are okay), I have not, for whatever reason, paid enough attention to my hifi gear. I do now, however, want that to change. For the moment, I will be listening on headphones only.

About 15 years ago my first dedicated DAC/Amp was a Cambridge Audio DACmagic and I remember that incredible moment listening to that for the first time, hearing so much more detail, instrument separation and soundstage. My current setup is old and basic: ifi iDSD DAC and ifi Zen Can headphone amp with Sennheiser HD650 (with very worn pads). I listen to mostly classical (large-scale orchestral pieces) and jazz-fusion (Steely Dan, Snarky Puppy etc.). As a musician, I enjoy hearing all the micro-details in the music I listen to, and sound stage width, depth and instrumental separation is really important. The music I listen to is highly dynamic so equipment that can reproduce that is also really important to me.

I have been doing a lot of research on here and elsewhere looking into upgrade paths and I have set aside a reasonable budget (£1,200 for a new DAC and the same for a new headphone amplifier, £1000 for headphones and the same for a streamer). These purchases will need to be made one after another.

I did audition a Chord Qutest at a local demo facility and really enjoyed the clarity, instrumental separation and wide sound stage plus the fast dynamics. I suspect this type of DAC is likely to be more in line with what I am looking for (see above) but I have never heard an R2R DAC so can't compare. I am limited in what I can audition locally here in the UK.

Here is what I have on my list so far, purely based on what I have read (except the Qutest, which I have heard):

DAC:
Chord Qutest
Holo Cyan 2

Headphone Amp:
Audio gd Master 9 Mk3
SPL Phonitor X

Headphones:
Hifiman Arya Stealth

Streamer:
Eversolo DMP-A6 or A6 Master Edition

As well as any recommendations you have, I would be grateful for you advice on the order in which I should upgrade. Headphones, DAC, headphone amp or streamer first? What would make the most difference to my setup in the first instance?

Thanks in advance.

 

[msing539]

Here is what I have on my list so far, purely based on what I have read (except the Qutest, which I have heard):

DAC:
Chord Qutest
Holo Cyan 2

Headphone Amp:
Audio gd Master 9 Mk3
SPL Phonitor X

Headphones:
Hifiman Arya Stealth

Streamer:
Eversolo DMP-A6 or A6 Master Edition

As well as any recommendations you have, I would be grateful for you advice on the order in which I should upgrade. Headphones, DAC, headphone amp or streamer first? What would make the most difference to my setup in the first instance?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome.

Headphones will make the biggest difference, upgrade those first. Arya Stealth is a solid headphone but there are many others. In the UK, find a Quad ERA-1 to demo.

 

[WILLJS]

Headphones will make the biggest difference, upgrade those first. Arya Stealth is a solid headphone but there are many others. In the UK, find a Quad ERA-1 to demo.

I second that, by the sound of it the headphones are the weakest link in your system, the iDSD and Zen Can would take of few upgrades from the 650 no trouble.

 

[earmonger]

You should spend most of your budget on headphones, not the other stuff. Every headphone is tuned differently, while DACs and amps should aspire to transparency: correctly translating numbers to the analog signal, providing clean amplification.

I'd also suggest reading reviews about comfort as well as sound. If headphones sound great but feel like you're balancing an anvil on your neck, or clamping your head in a vise, you will not want to be listening to those headphones.

The other components may add some magic fairy dust but the effect will be small compared to upgraded headphones.

Just about any reputable DAC and amp (including your iFi) will reproduce the signal without human-perceptible distortion. You may want additional power if you choose a power-hungry headphone, and you may want certain features or connections, but boy is there a lot of snake oil and confirmation bias in the high-end audio realm.

You can find lots of measurements at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php Note how vanishingly small some of the distortion figures are. Not zero, but not relevant to human hearing.

 

[MindBreak]

Welcome to Head-fi!

As others have stated normally the headphone is the first on the list to upgrade. Headphone > Amp > DAC > Streamer, granted I don't always adhere to it 100% of the time. I personally own the Arya Stealth, and while it has good detail retrieval as well as soundstage, it can have varying results depending on the chain you connect it to (in my experience). If you want to spend a little less elsewhere (like the streamer) you could also go for an HE1000 stealth or HE1000se if you want to stay in the Hifiman line of products. I use a Wiim Pro as my streamer feeding a Bifrost 2/64 DAC (happy with it thus far). Most of my experience with amps has been with Schiit Audio, Burson, and Topping, so I don't think I will be much help with directing you to a product you can demo locally. I have been told by others on Head-fi that the Cyan 2 is an excellent DAC for the money. Some have "upgraded" from the Bifrost 2 to the Cyan 2 and have been happy with the change in sound. The only thing I can say regarding amps is that I have been leaning heavily towards Class A amps due to them sounding more natural (to me), with a sense of effortless control over the headphone drivers. It would be hard to tell you to go either way when it comes to a particular type of amp. My ears are not your ears, so as you have stated demo all the gear you can to get a sense of what suits your tastes (as well as meats your criteria).

Wish I could be of more help, but the differences in availability/price between the US and UK markets are always problematic when it comes to suggesting gear.

Good Luck and Happy Listening

Edit: Just a heads up, the Hifiman included cables are not great. I would recommend getting a nicer cable once you get everything else settled.

 

[grml]

Thanks so much for all your help and suggestions guys - much appreciated! Any other suggestions most welcome.

 

[springfield01]

Here are other options to consider are Fiio K7, DX3 pro+, The Schiit stack (Modi + Magni), The ifi stack (Zen dac + Zen Can).

 

[WILLJS]

Here are other options to consider are Fiio K7, DX3 pro+, The Schiit stack (Modi + Magni), The ifi stack (Zen dac + Zen Can).

the k7 and DX3 pro+ yes, but Modi+Magni or Zen Dac would hardly be an upgrade from the iDSD and as mentioned, the Zen can is the current Amp

 

[Matez]

Headphones will make the biggest difference, upgrade those first.

I approve this post. Cans make the biggest difference.

but I have never heard an R2R DAC

R2R DACs have a particular flavor (to my ears very fluid and organic, but somewhat darkish and with nice yet a touch trimmed top end), so I'd audition one first prior to any financial commitments.

 

[buke9]

Well you just missed out on CanJam London which was July 20 21 and you could have heard a lot of different gear in one place.
I agree with the others the headphone should be a bigger priority.

 

[BS5711]

I have not used genuine high end stuff but I have used amplifiers in and around the price range that you indicate both solid state and tube. I have also used very much cheaper amplifiers and frankly you might be surprised how little difference there is between more modest gear like your Zan Can and higher cost stuff at around your budget. In fact there might be no readily discernable difference at all, there often isn't to my 57 year old ears at least.

I would try and test some higher end gear with the HD650 you know well and see what difference they make rather than test fancy new headphones on fancy new electronics and have no idea of what proportion the electronics contributed to the sound.

Same with DACs, I haven't used anything really high end but I have used some that are regarded as at least decent and, again, differences are very small even between a $10 Apple Dongle and very much more expensive stuff. Others will disagree but, as has been said, there is a lot of belief in changes that exist primarily in ones head.

If I could do my last four years over I would have spent much less on electronics and I would have put that into a handful of very nice IEM and headphones. I am happy with where I have ended up but I could have spent less doing so.

Of course, like anything, there is a learning curve, but as has been said already, put the budget into the headphones and spend less on the upstream gear. You indicated a total budget of something like 4,000 GPB or a bit more, I would imagine a good distribution of that would be 2,500 on headphones and 1,500 on other gear, maybe even more in favour of the headphones if you find something that you really like, perhaps like the Meze Empyrean 2 that looks like is around 2,750 GBP.

The UK isn't big and it doesn't look like you are far from London. I imagine you must be able to audition some options, most certainly make every effort to do that. Just because somebody says headphone ABC sounds incredible is not guarantee that you will like them at all.

Good luck.