[tlniec]

The last time I ripped most of my music library was probably close to 5 years ago.  At the time, I used MP3 @ 320kbps  (cannot remember for sure which encoder I used, LAME maybe).  Fast-forward to now.
 
I'm getting a Sansa Clip+, which will have 4GB onboard and an additional 8GB MicroSDHC card.  Naturally, like everyone else, I'd like my player to store as much music as possible from my library while still keeping the sound quality as high as possible. 
 
Music will be ripped from good ol' redbook CDs.  It'll be played back portably through the Clip+ (which I am most likely going to RockBox) into Meelectronics M6 in-ears, most often while working out/running.  Ideally, I'd use these same encodes for playback at home -- there, I plan to bitstream audio via digital coax into a modest A/V receiver and on to speakers/headphones for something more closely resembling "critical listening. "
 
TLR
So I guess the keys are - I would like "effectively near-lossless" quality and small filesizes in a Codec that a RockBoxed Sansa Clip+ can handle.  Downstream equipment is "budget-friendly" (so may not be the most revealing). 
 
 
What would you folks recommend for Codec and bitrate?  Thanks!

 

[ramicio]

Any lossy is going to be nowhere near lossless IMO but AAC is superior to MP3 by far.  Ogg Vorbis is even better, and the player you want supports that.  Bitrate is up to you.  I'd just do some actual listening tests at various bitrates and formats to find what is good for you.

 

[tlniec]

Sure, I understand that any lossy compression will be different from a lossless encode.  I threw in the weasel-words "effectively" and "near" to try and account for that.    Basically, I'm trying to figure out what I can get away with on my equipment, which depends on so many variables I suppose nobody can provide one right answer.
 
Thanks for the Ogg Vorbis suggestion, I'll look into that some more.  There are probably some guides/discussions somewhere about suggested bitrates/size vs quality comparisons. 

 

[xnor]

Quote:

There are probably some guides/discussions somewhere about suggested bitrates/size vs quality comparisons. 

Yeah, search the hydrogenaudio.org wiki for Lame (mp3) and Ogg Vorbis. 

 

[Ham Sandwich]

One strategy would be to use a syncing application or media player that is able to transcode "on the fly" when syncing to a portable.  Rip your CDs to lossless and transcode to lossy only as needed for what you decide to sync to the portable.  Best of both worlds.  You get to listen to lossless on the desktop.  You get to put lossy on the portable to save space.
 
I use J River Media Center which is able to transcode on the fly when syncing.  My library is FLAC and I convert to MP3 (LAME -V0) when syncing to the iPod.  Other media players can do the transcode on the fly thing as well.  I believe MediaMonkey can as well, and others.  There's also dedicated syncing apps like DoubleTwist that can do the transcode on the fly thing.  I've never used DoubleTwist but it's supposed to be able to do it.
 
I use MP3 (LAME) for the portable because MP3 is the most universally supported format.  I haven't bothered to consider AAC or OGG Vorbis just because they'd be a bit of a bother to deal with.  MP3 is easy and sounds good enough (and by good enough I mean it sounds just like lossless).  If space really was a critical concern I'd consider AAC (or OGG if my device supported it) cause they can sound better at lower bitrates. 
 
I've used LAME settings from -V3 to -V0 for the portable.  It depends on how much I want to compress to save space.  I'm using an 80 GB iPod so space isn't an important concern so I just use -V0 now.
 
If you use software that lets you do the transcode on the fly thing, none of your choices for which lossy format and which bitrate will be lasting or lock you in.  You'll be free to experiment with different compression settings.

 

[davide256]

iPods are limited to 16 bit resolution and deliberately compress in syncing because the amp in the player can't handle full dynamics without sucking the battery dead quickly. I once loaded uncompressed files on my iPod... it had the equivalent of a heart attack (reset) with very loud passages and sucked the battery dry in 1/4 the normal playing time. So expect that whatever format iTunes puts onto your iPod will have limitations but over earbuds/small cans thats still pleasant. FLAC seems to be the standard for computer audiophile playback but Windows media player doesn't recognize it and I'm not certain that  iTunes will either. After doing some experimenting, I've come to the conclusion that uncompressed wav files are best on your PC for 2 reasons (1) almost anything can play a wav file (2) after playing around with hardware, software and the OS, I've come to the conclusion that internal jitter in the PC is your worst enemy for fidelity  and any type of decoding process seems to  adds random jitter... wav files are least amount of processing other than direct CD play. So just make sure you use a ripper that will tag a wav file, dbpoweramp seems to do quite nicely. If you do it this way you should be future proofed as media PC's get better. WIth HD's running around $100 for a 1TB drive PC's don't need compression and  compression only matters when you sync a portable;  iTunes does compression automatically for you

 

[xnor]

Quote:

iPods are limited to 16 bit resolution and deliberately compress in syncing because the amp in the player can't handle full dynamics without sucking the battery dead quickly. I once loaded uncompressed files on my iPod... it had the equivalent of a heart attack (reset) with very loud passages and sucked the battery dry in 1/4 the normal playing time. So expect that whatever format iTunes puts onto your iPod will have limitations but over earbuds/small cans thats still pleasant. FLAC seems to be the standard for computer audiophile playback but Windows media player doesn't recognize it and I'm not certain that  iTunes will either. After doing some experimenting, I've come to the conclusion that uncompressed wav files are best on your PC for 2 reasons (1) almost anything can play a wav file (2) after playing around with hardware, software and the OS, I've come to the conclusion that internal jitter in the PC is your worst enemy for fidelity  and any type of decoding process seems to  adds random jitter... wav files are least amount of processing other than direct CD play. So just make sure you use a ripper that will tag a wav file, dbpoweramp seems to do quite nicely. If you do it this way you should be future proofed as media PC's get better. WIth HD's running around $100 for a 1TB drive PC's don't need compression and  compression only matters when you sync a portable;  iTunes does compression automatically for you

Well you conclusion seems to be wrong and delusional regarding jitter.

 

[Skylab]

 
Quote:

One strategy would be to use a syncing application or media player that is able to transcode "on the fly" when syncing to a portable.  Rip your CDs to lossless and transcode to lossy only as needed for what you decide to sync to the portable.  Best of both worlds.  You get to listen to lossless on the desktop.  You get to put lossy on the portable to save space.
 
I use J River Media Center which is able to transcode on the fly when syncing.  My library is FLAC and I convert to MP3 (LAME -V0) when syncing to the iPod.  Other media players can do the transcode on the fly thing as well.  I believe MediaMonkey can as well, and others.  There's also dedicated syncing apps like DoubleTwist that can do the transcode on the fly thing.  I've never used DoubleTwist but it's supposed to be able to do it.
 
I use MP3 (LAME) for the portable because MP3 is the most universally supported format.  I haven't bothered to consider AAC or OGG Vorbis just because they'd be a bit of a bother to deal with.  MP3 is easy and sounds good enough (and by good enough I mean it sounds just like lossless).  If space really was a critical concern I'd consider AAC (or OGG if my device supported it) cause they can sound better at lower bitrates. 
 
I've used LAME settings from -V3 to -V0 for the portable.  It depends on how much I want to compress to save space.  I'm using an 80 GB iPod so space isn't an important concern so I just use -V0 now.
 
If you use software that lets you do the transcode on the fly thing, none of your choices for which lossy format and which bitrate will be lasting or lock you in.  You'll be free to experiment with different compression settings.

This is the right approach.  Hard disc space is crazy cheap.  Don't put yourself in the position of having to re-rip again.  Just rip lossless now, and then transcode to whatever lossy codec you want to use for the portable.  Then you won't need to rip again.  Transcoding can be done as a batch process and even on a big library takes just a few clicks.

 

[ChipnDalebowl]

Quote:

 
I use MP3 (LAME) for the portable because MP3 is the most universally supported format.  I haven't bothered to consider AAC or OGG Vorbis just because they'd be a bit of a bother to deal with.  MP3 is easy and sounds good enough (and by good enough I mean it sounds just like lossless).  If space really was a critical concern I'd consider AAC (or OGG if my device supported it) cause they can sound better at lower bitrates. 
 
I've used LAME settings from -V3 to -V0 for the portable.  It depends on how much I want to compress to save space.  I'm using an 80 GB iPod so space isn't an important concern so I just use -V0 now.

This is the smart move.  Others have recommended the AAC or Vorbis route, but they're not as universally supported as good ol' mp3.  Plus, LAME has gotten really good over the years.  I would even recommend going lower than -V3 for a portable because of all the environmental noise.  -V5 sounds really decent.  You'd never know it was about 130kbps (VBR).  Unless you want to re-encode because your next player doesn't support AAC or Vorbis, you want to stick with the format that just about everything plays.
 
For computer home use, rip FLAC or another lossless format and then you don't have to worry about ever doing it again.

 

[tlniec]

Thanks everyone for the input! 
I will plan to rip to FLAC, then batch re-encode for portable use.  Since I know my Clip+ will take Ogg Vorbis, I'll probably go that route.  That, or MP3 LAME so the same music will work on my wife's player. 
While I will sometimes be listening in noisy environments, the majority of my use will be while running or working out.  I'll be working out at home, and running on the very quiet residental (nearly rural) streets around my home, so I'll probably keep the quality high.  With 12 gigs to work with (maybe 16 if I decide to swap out the 4 gig for an 8'er), even high-bitrate Ogg Vorbis or MP3 should still give me lots of play-time.